Fast Science Victory: Civ VII Edition

[shortski13]

Last game of the monthly patch is a new PB for me:

Ben Franklin leading Assyria / Abbasids / Russia
99 + 52 + 29 = 180 turns

Cultural attribute + Scientific attribute
Cultural attribute + Expansionist attribute
Lotus Blossom + Note G

--I pulled off the Deity Antiquity double civ-wipe for the first time. However, I really struggled with legacy paths, finishing with only 1/3 on both the culture and econ trees. This left me a bit short on attribute points going into Exploration.
Right now I feel like the double civ-wipe is only the best strategy if you can actually get it down to around 90 turns. If we're talking 95-99 turns, I'd rather prioritize legacy paths and/or Future Tech. You can also do civ-wipes in Exploration, so it's not always clearly better to wipe a second one in Antiquity, versus just beating it up and then finishing the job in a later age.

--This was another game of easily clearing the Exploration Economic legacy path in under 50 turns. While Pangaea is clearly the strongest map type for the Antiquity era, it looks to me like there is a meaningful advantage for Continents maps in Exploration. With the increased difficulty of stacking Future Techs/Civics in that era, being able to knock out this legacy path carries a lot of value, and I suspect Continents is the map type to be on right now.

--I was influenced by Ben Franklin's UA to try a different tech path in Exploration, opening Cartography --> Machinery --> Castles, and hard-building Sawmills and Dungeons before going for any science buildings. This is an approach I might try going forward even with other leaders, as hammers in Exploration feel really scarce right now.

--Below is the screenshot of my empire at the end of turn 1 of Modern, showing the kind of yields that lead to a ~turn 30 Modern victory. All meaningful portions of the scientific attribute tree have been unlocked, and I've scaled up to 21 settlements. With Lyceums and Russia, that goes a long way.

Spoiler :

View attachment 745555

How the hell do you start with 1500 science at T1 Modern??
I'm usually starting with 500-600 lol. Except with Queen of Wa who i get more like 750 with an alliance.
How many of your 21 settlements are cities and how did you get your cap to 19 without corona civica?

 

[Manpanzee]

How the hell do you start with 1500 science at T1 Modern??
I'm usually starting with 500-600 lol. Except with Queen of Wa who i get more like 750 with an alliance.
How many of your 21 settlements are cities and how did you get your cap to 19 without corona civica?

--I had only three cities in Modern. In Exploration I had six cities, all converted early enough to actually develop. So, that’s six cities worth of specialists / Abbasid UBs / GA Universities. But retaining the three-city specialist buffs, and getting +percentage yields in the former-city towns.

--Probably the bigger thing going on is warehouse spam + quarter buff stacking. I have Russia UA + Lyceums + science attribute quarter buff + Abbasid city-center-adjacency tradition. Factor in +percentage yields in all specialized towns, and that’s a ton of science you can generate just from scaling up empire size and spamming warehouse buildings in towns.

--I invested in the Militaristic tree in Antiquity to expand settlement limit (using Oracle + Assyria flex attribute to get to three steps). Ending the age with nine limit allowed the attribute to re-trigger in Exploration, meaning that taking Fealty let me start that age with 12 limit, even without using Corona Civica.

 

[pmarc]

It's good that they did away with the overpowered stacking % bonuses, but it looks like it pushed the meta further towards a certain kind of "wide" that involves having a lot of cheap buildings, mostly warehouses, to maximize the fixed per building / district / quarter bonuses.

 

[shortski13]

--I had only three cities in Modern. In Exploration I had six cities, all converted early enough to actually develop. So, that’s six cities worth of specialists / Abbasid UBs / GA Universities. But retaining the three-city specialist buffs, and getting +percentage yields in the former-city towns.

--Probably the bigger thing going on is warehouse spam + quarter buff stacking. I have Russia UA + Lyceums + science attribute quarter buff + Abbasid city-center-adjacency tradition. Factor in +percentage yields in all specialized towns, and that’s a ton of science you can generate just from scaling up empire size and spamming warehouse buildings in towns.

--I invested in the Militaristic tree in Antiquity to expand settlement limit (using Oracle + Assyria flex attribute to get to three steps). Ending the age with nine limit allowed the attribute to re-trigger in Exploration, meaning that taking Fealty let me start that age with 12 limit, even without using Corona Civica.

Thanks!! I'm still learning civ 7 a bit.
Do you find Russia is better than Japan for quick SV?

 

[Manpanzee]

Thanks!! I'm still learning civ 7 a bit.
Do you find Russia is better than Japan for quick SV?

I’m honestly not sure; it might depend on where the ceiling is. I think Russia may be stronger on raw yields. But Japan's UA can be leveraged to do unfair stuff, and if people are still able to "break the game" to the extent of getting sub-20-turn Modern eras, it'll be with Japan.

It sounds like there are more big balance changes incoming next week, so this may all be moot soon anyway.

 

[ValleTomate]

Hi there, it's really cool to see that there is already a civ7 Speedrunning thread, I've been lurking for like a month but I wanted to at least have a game to post about first.
Coming from civ6 SV speedrunning I was already pretty used to long pillage focused games so I wanted to try a strategy relying on Bulgaria which I then combined with an idea I had because of the recent gold nerf. Using mainly Ahsoka World Rennouncers Hapiness ability and Gold ressorces you can completely mitigate the -35 max unhapiness form going over the settlement limit, so I tried using Bulgarias prod and food from pillaging to spam out crazy amounts of settlers and grow all those towns to really high pop sizes and it worked even better then I hoped as I ended up covering my entire starting continent (killing every AI on there too) and taking control of a lot of empire ressources which provide yields per town or city.
I used Rome as Antiquity Civ just for the culture per infantry unit created tradition in an attempt to turn all the pillage prod right at the start of Explo into culture and rushing the Strategems (50% more pillage yields) tradition. That was really underwhelming tho and I didn't reach it until after finishing off all the AI's on the home continent (but I also stopped producing Infantry quite early). Doing this at least provided me with a never ending wave of swordsman which was more then enough to fullfill all my military needs, Cav might be faster and stronger however due to the Tarkhans ability to pillage for only one movement, Infantry was good enough for pillaging. The lower combat strentgh wasn't really an issue with order and 6+ Iron they were strong enough to just push through every AI and one thing that made them better then Cav, was the lower Maintenance cost, with just 2g for the swordsman, which gets halfed by the -1 maintenance Millitary attribute.

Now the main part of this strategy came once I hit my first celebration, I took the Government that provides 40% prod to civilian units and obviously had the +25% towards Settlers in the Expansionist tree, switched my (at the start of Explo) 6 cities to all produce settlers and pillaged my way through my neighboors. Every single Building got pillaged with a Commander (with the +50% pillage yield promotion) next to it. I did buld Observitories, universities and some Wonders in between this but most of the Prod went into settlers which worked quite well since their cost scales way less then it does in civ6, going up only 20prod per settler produced ( and my first settlers already costed 250 prod since using Romes Unique Commanders ability to settle towns makes the production cost increase as if you produced 3 settlers).
When settling I obviously focused on distant land settles with treasure ressources first but after those initial settlers went swiming I sent the rest to any location that had Tea, Spices, Rubies, Silver and most importantly Gold.
Buying all the 3 land based antiquity warehouse Buildings you can create 2 quarters together with the city hall. Surrounding them with rural improvements grants a total 20 hapiness as Ashoka, not counting hapiness from the tiles themselve. I did this in every single town and while obviously new ones started unhappy, that didn't matter. They grew really quickly anyway, because I got a flat amount of food from every rural pillage in every town (False Retread Tradition) and even being slightly unhappy still meaned really hight yields just form all the gold per settlement ressorces and the Culture and Science Attribute points that give their respective yield in every settlement.
I only started specializing towns close to the end of the age so that they could grow for a while, sadly the most optimal way to play this is also extremely annoying and I only did it for a little bit at the end of the age, but ideally you would specialize towns quite early to feed cities and generate specialists and switch them all to growing focus anytime you pillage a rural tile to keep growing them, as the food would just be wasted if they were feeding a city while you pillage. That is completely insane micromanaging that even I don't want to do for every single turn.
By the end of the age I stopped producing settlers and just filled my cities with Buildings as despite the new cost scaling of Buildings I still ended up in the same situation as every Bulgaria game in that I had more production then I knew what to do with and I also switched to the 20% culture celebration however it might have been worth it to just keep spamming settlers even if they would only settle in modern.

Unfortunatly I played with the 10turn delay to the age ending setting which slowed my times down by 10turns both ages, obviously it allowed for additional developement, however with better play I am certain you can reach a very similair start to modern by ending explo t48 (Also I am ass at plaing Antiquity and I don't have Note G for modern so this whole run could be improved significantly but it's a prove of concept)
On the last turn I spent all my money turning distant land towns into cities and buying Universities, so that I had maybe 15 universities by the end of the age. (Could probably easily be 20 if I try this again)

For Modern Civs I initially thought maybe Buganda would be best just to rush Communism with their extra Culture form pillaging, but seeing the starting stats as Russia, I'll just be able to 1turn ever civic till Communism anyway so Russia might be best.

Times: Antiquity-116 ; Explo-58 (with 4 future techs and 3 future civics but it would be 2 techs and 1 civic if the age ended turn 48)
Mementos: Antiquity-Science Attribute-Culture Attribute ; Explo: +1movement to Infantry - Military Attribute ; Modernt: Lotus (4% of gpt as Science and Culture) - 1 influence per age on science Buildings (should be Note G obviously)

PS: pls ignore the real time clock

 

[ValleTomate]

Ok I did a really quick and dirty run through modern and you ramp up super quickly, I had communism on t4 and reached Rocketry on t13 (with Oxford) with enough overflow, to finish almost all masteries on the same turn by pillaging, forcing the overflow to be spent. Since I don't have Note G (and there were only 2 Military IP's) it took till t25 to finish the game. Doing this deliberatly with NoteG I think a sup t15 modern might be possible (start to pillage before reaching rocketry to go faster then 1 tech per turn)

 

[civfanatic4sure]

This is awesome but also had to be the most tedious gameplay possible — cheers for giving a template of what’s possible.

How many commanders did you use in antiquity?

What was your settlement count at end of antiquity?

Do you have a screenshot of the end of antiquity map?

Thanks!

 

[Bleidraner]

@ValleTomate good run Bulgaria and Ashoka looks like a great combo what difficulty level are you playing?

 

[ValleTomate]

@ValleTomate good run Bulgaria and Ashoka looks like a great combo what difficulty level are you playing?

Deity, I tried to run the settings that seem standard in this thread but realized to late that the Age end Countdown is on by default

 

[ValleTomate]

This is awesome but also had to be the most tedious gameplay possible — cheers for giving a template of what’s possible.

How many commanders did you use in antiquity?

What was your settlement count at end of antiquity?

Do you have a screenshot of the end of antiquity map?

Thanks!

I only used 2 Commanders in Antiquity and only got a third one in the middle of explo. Getting a 3rd earlier and sending a strong commander to the new world earlier would have been better.

I ended Antiquity with 10 settlements and even took fealty at the start of explo as I didn't want to immediatly drain my hapiness even though I'd eventually ignore the limit

I didn't think to screenshot or save at the end of Antiquity sadly, but it really wasn't that good of an age anyway, the one important part about it is that I tried to maximize my cities at the start of Explo to really take advantage of Bulgarias prod.

 

[Bleidraner]

I like the strategy, and I think it can be really good for a very fast modern (with that amazing start from Modern t1 that appears in your screenshot, t20 is possible), but in our context, all ages count. For a record run you would need to shave 15 turns in Antiquity and probably 10 turns in Exploration and then do a sub t30 Modern to end sub180 (95/45/40) which I think is the current benchmark.

Nevertheles, I think this is a spectacular run. congratulations. And even better is the strategic thinking behind it, getting around the cap limit, as you say it is a good proof of concept that could be improved. Running a pillage game is a time sink with all the micromanagement needed and I absolutely admire that you tackled it. Also, wiping 4 civs in Deity between Antiquity and Exploration is pretty damn difficult. Fantastic game. Welcome!

 

[Bleidraner]

t90 Antiquity, Isabella leading Maya, Deity, all Standard size and speed, Continents and Islands. I disabled the civ unlocks, although my plan is Abbasids and Meiji Japan unlocked already anyway. All the rest is standard.

I have a PB in Antiquity that I want to share. Isabella (my old obsession) leading Maya. t90 finish. The reason I want to share it is that I did 3 civ wipes, first time I have ever done that. Before we get all excited this is an absolutely edge case, something that I had dreamt about. There is this goody hut that offers you a Horseman if you have 300 Gold and are willing to lose the unit. I always dreamed about what would happen if I got it in the first 10 turns. That is really only possible with Isabella and a Everest start where you discover more than one wonder, 2 in my case, Everest and Kilimanjaro, as that allows you to start with 200 Gold. That plus one goody hut and 10 turns gives you 300. I had 315 when I found it.

Although the start was really poor in terms of production (Everest is not a production Wonder, and there were no hammer tiles whatsoever, not even one hammer), I decided to play it due to the 200 gold and the fact that Kili was not very far away. I built my first scout and sent it to Kili, I discovered Xerxes capital very close to the NW. Meanwhile my second scout went south and I got the Horseman goody hut. I decided to go for it to see what kind of impact would that horseman have (better be worth it, as losing my Jaguar Slayer and paying 300 gold at the start of the game is a pretty big deal).

The Horseman was amazing. With it, my Discipline Army Commander, one Jaguar explorer, one warrior and one Hulche I was able to take Parsa and kill Xerses in t23. I then went north, killing a gold IP on the way, and adding a couple more units, to kill Friedrich leading Rome. I wiped Friedrich t45, captured Rome and one settlement. I then went East to kill Confucius leading Ming, captured Shang'an and two additional towns on t84.

I finished the age with one Culture, 2 Economic (was two resources short of finishing this path), 2 Scientific, 3 Military. Ended up with 10 settlements, 2 cities with the Maya UQ built (thinking of Modern).

If my production had been better I could have done something scandalous like t84 and similar legacies, but hey, I cannot complain.

The Horseman paid for itself many times over. It was the most dominant unit in the map until the very end.

I will continue this game and post the Exporation and Modern results when I finish. Here are some screenshots.

Spoiler Screenshots :

 

[Salamis]

Hi there, it's really cool to see that there is already a civ7 Speedrunning thread, I've been lurking for like a month but I wanted to at least have a game to post about first.
Coming from civ6 SV speedrunning I was already pretty used to long pillage focused games so I wanted to try a strategy relying on Bulgaria which I then combined with an idea I had because of the recent gold nerf. Using mainly Ahsoka World Rennouncers Hapiness ability and Gold ressorces you can completely mitigate the -35 max unhapiness form going over the settlement limit, so I tried using Bulgarias prod and food from pillaging to spam out crazy amounts of settlers and grow all those towns to really high pop sizes and it worked even better then I hoped as I ended up covering my entire starting continent (killing every AI on there too) and taking control of a lot of empire ressources which provide yields per town or city.
I used Rome as Antiquity Civ just for the culture per infantry unit created tradition in an attempt to turn all the pillage prod right at the start of Explo into culture and rushing the Strategems (50% more pillage yields) tradition. That was really underwhelming tho and I didn't reach it until after finishing off all the AI's on the home continent (but I also stopped producing Infantry quite early). Doing this at least provided me with a never ending wave of swordsman which was more then enough to fullfill all my military needs, Cav might be faster and stronger however due to the Tarkhans ability to pillage for only one movement, Infantry was good enough for pillaging. The lower combat strentgh wasn't really an issue with order and 6+ Iron they were strong enough to just push through every AI and one thing that made them better then Cav, was the lower Maintenance cost, with just 2g for the swordsman, which gets halfed by the -1 maintenance Millitary attribute.

Now the main part of this strategy came once I hit my first celebration, I took the Government that provides 40% prod to civilian units and obviously had the +25% towards Settlers in the Expansionist tree, switched my (at the start of Explo) 6 cities to all produce settlers and pillaged my way through my neighboors. Every single Building got pillaged with a Commander (with the +50% pillage yield promotion) next to it. I did buld Observitories, universities and some Wonders in between this but most of the Prod went into settlers which worked quite well since their cost scales way less then it does in civ6, going up only 20prod per settler produced ( and my first settlers already costed 250 prod since using Romes Unique Commanders ability to settle towns makes the production cost increase as if you produced 3 settlers).
When settling I obviously focused on distant land settles with treasure ressources first but after those initial settlers went swiming I sent the rest to any location that had Tea, Spices, Rubies, Silver and most importantly Gold.
Buying all the 3 land based antiquity warehouse Buildings you can create 2 quarters together with the city hall. Surrounding them with rural improvements grants a total 20 hapiness as Ashoka, not counting hapiness from the tiles themselve. I did this in every single town and while obviously new ones started unhappy, that didn't matter. They grew really quickly anyway, because I got a flat amount of food from every rural pillage in every town (False Retread Tradition) and even being slightly unhappy still meaned really hight yields just form all the gold per settlement ressorces and the Culture and Science Attribute points that give their respective yield in every settlement.
I only started specializing towns close to the end of the age so that they could grow for a while, sadly the most optimal way to play this is also extremely annoying and I only did it for a little bit at the end of the age, but ideally you would specialize towns quite early to feed cities and generate specialists and switch them all to growing focus anytime you pillage a rural tile to keep growing them, as the food would just be wasted if they were feeding a city while you pillage. That is completely insane micromanaging that even I don't want to do for every single turn.
By the end of the age I stopped producing settlers and just filled my cities with Buildings as despite the new cost scaling of Buildings I still ended up in the same situation as every Bulgaria game in that I had more production then I knew what to do with and I also switched to the 20% culture celebration however it might have been worth it to just keep spamming settlers even if they would only settle in modern.

Unfortunatly I played with the 10turn delay to the age ending setting which slowed my times down by 10turns both ages, obviously it allowed for additional developement, however with better play I am certain you can reach a very similair start to modern by ending explo t48 (Also I am ass at plaing Antiquity and I don't have Note G for modern so this whole run could be improved significantly but it's a prove of concept)
On the last turn I spent all my money turning distant land towns into cities and buying Universities, so that I had maybe 15 universities by the end of the age. (Could probably easily be 20 if I try this again)

For Modern Civs I initially thought maybe Buganda would be best just to rush Communism with their extra Culture form pillaging, but seeing the starting stats as Russia, I'll just be able to 1turn ever civic till Communism anyway so Russia might be best.

Times: Antiquity-116 ; Explo-58 (with 4 future techs and 3 future civics but it would be 2 techs and 1 civic if the age ended turn 48)
Mementos: Antiquity-Science Attribute-Culture Attribute ; Explo: +1movement to Infantry - Military Attribute ; Modernt: Lotus (4% of gpt as Science and Culture) - 1 influence per age on science Buildings (should be Note G obviously)

PS: pls ignore the real time clock

This is a great write-up and strategy, thanks for sharing. I really want to give this a try and am praying tomorrow’s update doesn’t affect it!

In Antiquity, I wonder if a civ that provides a bit more culture in Exploration might help get to Stratagems faster. Greece’s UQ and Aksum’s UI carry over pretty well. There aren’t really any Traditions that provide a substantial Culture return but one will land tomorrow:
One of Tonga’s Traditions will provide Culture to Warehouse buildings (!). Both their UQ buildings will also provide culture.

 

[ValleTomate]

This is a great write-up and strategy, thanks for sharing. I really want to give this a try and am praying tomorrow’s update doesn’t affect it!

In Antiquity, I wonder if a civ that provides a bit more culture in Exploration might help get to Stratagems faster. Greece’s UQ and Aksum’s UI carry over pretty well. There aren’t really any Traditions that provide a substantial Culture return but one will land tomorrow:
One of Tonga’s Traditions will provide Culture to Warehouse buildings (!). Both their UQ buildings will also provide culture.

Thanks! I'd love to see another game with this strat, especially as I probably wont get another try until christmas.

Your probably right about the Antiquity civ, Rome sounded better in my head then it felt, but that Tonga Tradition would actually be perfect and knowing the distant Land coast before Explo might be quite useful too.
As long as new ressources don't make gold alot less common I'd think the strat will still be quite doable.

Now I also have some more notes and ideas which I forgot to put into the first post which you might find usefull, but obviously play it however you feel like.

- I think the biggest change I'd do in a 2nd attempt is that I would play on a pangea map. Now Pangea, in my experience, made it more difficult to reach the full economic and millitary legacy path in a normal game, however spamming settlements should solve the millitary legacy and the economic might be fine to miss, since not needing to cross the ocean for more pillages should really speed up the snowball and allow even more civ wipes to compensate.
Before the game my plan was to ferry army commanders over with fleet commanders (which was such a cool feature, I am really annoyed it doesn't work anymore) however I ended up swimming them over 2 tiles at a time which was probably the biggest time loss.

-Maussolleum of Theodoric is obviously the most important wonder however I never build it myself since the ai seems to really like it and always beat me to it (until I stopped even trying). In my game I was lucky that one of the ai's on my home continent build it and the first settlement I conquered was that city in explo. Now like I said, I am quite bad at Antiquity, if you think you can beat the ai to it it's probably worth it ( I think they tend to finish it by t65 ). But playing on Pangea would eliminate that risk of someone building it in the distant land.

- Suzing a cultural city state as early as possible would probably quite helpfull at the start of explo and suzing a science one is really important before the end of it. I spent like 30k gold on monestaries which is 400 ageless spt before percentage modifiers and again a pangea map would make it easier finding those IP's early.

-Army wise I was impressed how well Infantry performed in large quantities however without the Rome Tradition I'd be less married to them. Maybe just using whatever you have the most strategics is best, even if the cavs maintenance is higher. Also getting more Army Commanders would be nice (maybe incite raid an IP you are about to suz in Antiquity to levy the Commander that might spawn)

- And last but not least, I stopped producing settlers at around 60 settlemens but I honestly think going higher (maybe 80 or even 100) is probably better.

 

[Manpanzee]

Well, I thought Bulgaria might still be good, but I kind of hoped they weren't actually THIS good. I doubt I'll have the patience to try to replicate this strat, but maybe you guys can get them to nerf Bulgaria and/or increase the maximum over-the-cap penalties.

It seems to me that if you're breaking the game open in Exploration like this, most of what you care about in Antiquity is just choosing a civ that can get you through that age as fast as possible. So the priority is more raw power over synergy.

I will add to the above that Aksum also has a strong +culture tradition to go with their +culture UI (although it is map-dependent). In my mind, they were already one of the stronger Antiquity civs, but I don't think that was a popular opinion, and they were highlighted as one of the civs that's probably getting buffs tomorrow. Will be interesting to see where they end up.

 

[civfanatic4sure]

Quick antiquity before the patch -- Deity, Large Continents & Islands, everything standard -- 99 turns

Mementos = sci attribute + movement to generals

@Bleidraner's run with the early horseman gave me inspiration to try fast tracking civ wipes. Gave a swing with Trung Trac + Maya since you get a scout that counts as a military unit on turn 2 which spawns the unique general. Took +science government and by turn 20 you have a base of about 15 science + science endeavor + 20% gov + 20% tropical cap & declaring war -- I think this competes well with the early science of Ben Franklin. Used that start to wipe Frederick of Rome all the way to the north by turn 25. Wiped Confucius of Han by turn 65 to the south. Struggled with gold generation and never got a city with production over 30. Got 3 legacy paths, but only one tick on the culture path. With speed runs and civ wipes the map size becomes important since on Large you're only getting 20 age progress pts for a wipe where on Standard you get 25 (right?) -- if so, materially changes the antiquity turn possibility. Either way, it was fun to get a wipe that quick and I believe it would be pretty reliable with this combo.

Spoiler End of Antiquity :

Looking forward to seeing what the patch update brings to the meta!

EDIT: We are definitely looking at new antiquity times this patch. Just ran antiquity, same settings, with Trung Trac + Egypt and got a 90 pretty easily. 2 civ wipes, 3 legacy paths, but only 2 ticks of science?! tbd how much this hurts in exploration. Though it wasn't a rushed 90 turns, I had time to prep a few settlers and a bunch of boats. Egypt is kind of insane in antiquity with all that production. I am bullish on this Trung Trac super early civ wipe rush with her commander -- with Egpyt, I went no scouts, all medjay opener and didn't need to get a brickyard or sawpit down for early prod because of +2 prod from any river tile. Cheers
Mementos = sci attribute + extra settlement limit

EDIT2: Ran Abbasid + Russia. Got 56 and 41 for 187 which is my best so far. The yields to start modern were too low (~1100 sci) and I don't have 'Note G' so feel crippled a bit. Either way, I think breaking the 180 bench is a lock this patch. Curious what combos you all try out!

Spoiler End of Antiquity :

 

[Bleidraner]

@civfanatic4sure great yes its 25 in standard, 20 in large, 15 in huge. These days for the civ wipes, I am playing standard. Not sure what the wipes are worth in Exploration, I have the feeling its either 10 or 15 at Standard size. Does anybody know? I am thnking how to finish the Isabella game (in legacy alas and I am toying with the idea of using Isabella's naval superiority to go for further wipes and try to live over the settlement cap, but I lack the data.

Edit: @ValleTomate I thunk some of the buffs are going to make your strategy even more powerful and not less. @Manpanzee Aksum got a buff!

Also, does anybody know what happens in Queen of Two Crowns if you trigger the quests Train a Commander (25 science) or Research Sailing (25% production in galleys?) Do you get just that or do the options eventualy lead to Attribute points? If that is the case, what is the next step?

 

[Salamis]

@civfanatic4sure great yes its 25 in standard, 20 in large, 15 in huge. These days for the civ wipes, I am playing standard. Not sure what the wipes are worth in Exploration, I have the feeling its either 10 or 15 at Standard size. Does anybody know? I am thnking how to finish the Isabella game (in legacy alas and I am toying with the idea of using Isabella's naval superiority to go for further wipes and try to live over the settlement cap, but I lack the data.

Edit: @ValleTomate I thunk some of the buffs are going to make your strategy even more powerful and not less. @Manpanzee Aksum got a buff!

Also, does anybody know what happens in Queen of Two Crowns if you trigger the quests Train a Commander (25 science) or Research Sailing (25% production in galleys?) Do you get just that or do the options eventualy lead to Attribute points? If that is the case, what is the next step?

According to the attributes guide, Queen of Two Crowns will provide one of Isabella’s two attribute points (so an Economic or Expansionist point). It doesn’t say what the steps are - perhaps completing either will provide a choice between which point to take?

The guide: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/a-guide-to-attribute-points-how-to-get-more-of-them.698260/

​

 

[pmarc]

I would think Mississippians could work with the Ashoka settlement spam as well. Their nerf to shell-tempered pottery is minor if you're mostly building warehouses.

Aksum's buff also seems minor. Egypt on the other hand...

@Bleidraner

Here's a quick guide to mine the narrative events data (under the Base/modules/age-antiquity/data folder, replace with another age or with DLC for DLC civs/leaders as needed). Most of the info is under the narrative-stories-gameeffects.xml file, some of it in narrative-stories.xml, and to get the text of the events you need to go in the text (rather than data) folder for the same age and find NarrativeStoriesText.xml there. If you search for Isabella in the narrative-stories-gameeffects data file, you find the leader chain 1120-1121-1122 (note that some non-leader chain quests have the same numbers, so you specifically need to look for quests marked as leader chain). If you then search the file again with LEADER_CHAIN_1120 (and 1121, 1122) you find the requirement sets (REQSET) for all the quests.

1120A: Train 2 Infantry
1120B: Sailing
1120C: Train a Commander

1121A: Train 2 Galleys (also requires chain A)
1121B: Train a Merchant

1122A: Train a Chariot (also requires chain B)
1122B: Kill 3 enemy units after initiating this quest (the AfterInit tag is used, since other quests can be completed retroactively).

If you search the file further for those quest numbers, you find the NARRATIVE_MODIFIER tags that show the rewards, so 1121B (chain A, the one that started with Sailing) rewards an Economic point and 1122B (chain B, starting with Commander) rewards an Expansionist point.

My understanding is all leader chains work this way. If you pick Sailing (chain A), you get that first reward, then you need to train 2 Galleys to continue the quest, and finally a Merchant for the point.