Features that Civ 7 Could Do Without

Xandinho

Deity
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
2,212
Location
Brazil
Speaking of museums I wouldn't mind if they went back to just one museum building instead of the art/archaeology split. That being said it would nice if you had a choice to fill it up with Great Works of Art, Artifacts, or a mixture of both. :)
Only if that would make it possible to have a Opera House/Broadcast Tower choice later in the game. :mischief:

I'd like to see Paleontology Museum, and paleontologists who collect fossils that grant science and tourism. :p
Military Museum would be nice as well.
 

Zaarin

Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
11,260
Location
Babylon 5
Hey, I love love love museums. Museums of all kinds —art, science, history, everything. But the cultural victory, consisting of building ski resorts and sunbathing beaches and themed museums seems silly to me. I don’t mind it as a game component, but it’s just not the same as building a rocket to Alpha Centauri or conquering all other countries.

I liked Civ4’s cultural victory: build three cities of legendary culture. That was hard to do but kind of made sense.
I think Civ5 BNW's cultural victory worked well. On paper it looks similar to Civ6's, but in practice it played very differently. I think this paradox is partly why I don't really play Civ6 much anymore: culture victory is the only victory condition I have the patience for in Civ6 since GS made the science victory intolerably tedious, but at the same time the culture victory is very dissatisfying in its own way. (I turn off religious victory, domination victory, and, since winning a diplomatic victory by accident, diplomatic victory.)
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
8,604
Location
Texas
I'd like to see Paleontology Museum, and paleontologists who collect fossils that grant science and tourism. :p
Military Museum would be nice as well.
Paleontology would be nice too. Of course I don't mind if all three kinds (art, archaeology and paleontology) going into one museum building either considering there are some like that in the real world. But if we get three different types of museums I wouldn't mind either.

Paleontology would go nice if we had a Prehistoric era like Humankind does and those paleontology sites would spawn where roaming animals died. :mischief:
 

SCBrain

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
78
I guess it’s my play style, but I usually have a bunch of great artists/musicians/writers floating around at the end of the game - along with tons of arch sites — and nowhere to put their great works. Not that it makes sense to place poetry into a cultural receptacle of some kind.
 

Zaarin

Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
11,260
Location
Babylon 5
I guess it’s my play style, but I usually have a bunch of great artists/musicians/writers floating around at the end of the game - along with tons of arch sites — and nowhere to put their great works. Not that it makes sense to place poetry into a cultural receptacle of some kind.
This is particularly a problem for Writers. We need more Great Work of Writing slots (e.g., why can't libraries hold books? :crazyeye: ), and this is especially a problem for Russia where eventually you own every single GWAM in the game and have long since run out of spots for their works.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
8,604
Location
Texas
This is particularly a problem for Writers. We need more Great Work of Writing slots (e.g., why can't libraries hold books? :crazyeye: ), and this is especially a problem for Russia where eventually you own every single GWAM in the game and have long since run out of spots for their works.
Apparently the library has to be a Great Library to hold a Great Work of Writing. :mischief:

That's one of the reasons I would like an Opera House which could hold both music and writing, the two kinds of great works that people need the most slots for.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
4,792
Location
north of Steilacoom, WA
Funny thing, in the Real World, when you have too many books, you build a Bigger Library. Having a 'spare' Great Work should be a trigger that allows you to invest in expanding or Upgrading a LIbrary, Museum, Gallery of whatever kind fits to house the Great Work.

In fact, I'd love to see almost all the Buildings and Improvements be Upgradable. You should be constantly 'improving' your Cities, and have good reasons for doing so. And every building should be replaceable if it is no longer applicable in your Civ: center city Barracks get torn down and replaced by large Maneuver Areas outside of town when the relevant military Unit changes from a 1000-man Royal Bodyguard to a 15,000 man armored division with 3000 vehicles. The little Scribal Library of 600 BCE is not the same as Oxford's Bodleian or the Civic libraries of cities the size of London or New York.
Oh, and Blinding Flash: ALL Universities have libraries, some of them (Bodleian again) are World Class and many of them housing Great Works. Let me rephrase that: Most of them house Great Works, and a great percentage of Grat Works of Writing are at Universities.

And, of course, every type of building should have some kind of Wonder as the Apex of that building type: the Library of Congress or British Museum Library for libraries, the Louvre for Art Museums, La Scala or The Met for Opera Houses, etc.
 

SCBrain

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
78
I suppose this is needless realism, but I don’t understand why great works have to be housed somewhere. Great paintings and sculptures, sure, but The Nutcracker isn’t stored at the Bolshoi Theater. The Tell-Tale Heart isn’t stored at a Stock Exchange in Baltimore. No one has to go see Poe’s library to appreciate The Raven.


Maybe there could be endowed chairs at universities? Or musical conservatories?
 

aieeegrunt

Emperor
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
1,176
I'd be very happy to see the archaeology game go away. I find that I don't build theater squares much, and when the archaeology sites suddenly appear all over the map, I have dozens of tiles I cannot use unless I build theater squares, then amphitheaters, then archaeology museums, then archaeologists to remove them. To me, archaeology sites are a form of pollution (like in Civ2) and I don't like having to remove them to make the tiles accessible again.

On a larger level, the idea that digging up buttons and javelins and putting them under glass would help a civilization defeat its rivals is just beyond silly.

I think the promotion system of Civ6 should go. It's rigid and boring. Just seven options, and only two or three available at any one time? At most there are two different pathways for most units (a defensive path and an offensive path) and for some units, like ranged, one pathway is clearly better than the other. As is the case for SO MANY THINGS, I don't know why the Civ4 promotion system was abandoned. It was so fun to build different units with different abilities - some super medics, some all-around strong units, some specialized for attacking cities or working in jungles or hills. I suppose that the human player could exploit the system better than the AI can, but that's true for many systems; that never stopped the developers from implementing things the AI couldn't handle.

Another problem that goes away with the basic game. Making tiles unworkable I guess forces you to engage with this mechanic. You could tie this in to what government and/or policies you are running; where a Democracy has to put up with this, where as a Fascism just drives the bulldozer over the protestor.

I think Civ5 BNW's cultural victory worked well. On paper it looks similar to Civ6's, but in practice it played very differently. I think this paradox is partly why I don't really play Civ6 much anymore: culture victory is the only victory condition I have the patience for in Civ6 since GS made the science victory intolerably tedious, but at the same time the culture victory is very dissatisfying in its own way. (I turn off religious victory, domination victory, and, since winning a diplomatic victory by accident, diplomatic victory.)

Ya most of the victory conditions feel like arbitrary bucket filling
 

SCBrain

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
78
Here's another thing I could do without in Civ7: Civ6's road and movement system. Of course there is some strange abstraction when a turn in the game covers 50 years or more, but the idea that I cannot immediately cross a river that goes through my city is weird and distracting. How about this: every tile in your city automatically has a road in it or a bridge across it given the correct technology?
 
Last edited:

Evie

Pronounced like Eevee
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
10,187
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
I suppose this is needless realism, but I don’t understand why great works have to be housed somewhere. Great paintings and sculptures, sure, but The Nutcracker isn’t stored at the Bolshoi Theater. The Tell-Tale Heart isn’t stored at a Stock Exchange in Baltimore. No one has to go see Poe’s library to appreciate The Raven.

I mean, preservations (and exhibition) of the manuscript drafts, first drafts and similar of Great Work of Writings in museum and libraries is, absolutely, a thing. The Lord of the Rings and Hobbit are at Marquette University, Oliver Twist is at the Victoria and Albert, the Great Gatsby is at Princeton University, On the Road has been exhibited in museums many times, etc.

For older texts, first editions and oldest surviving fragments often play similar roles.
 
Last edited:

Krajzen

Deity
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
3,293
Location
Poland
Here's another thing I could do without in Civ7: Civ6's road and movement system. Of course there is some strange abstraction when a turn in the game covers 50 years or more, but the idea that I cannot immediately cross a river that goes through my city is weird and distracting. How about this: every tile in your city automatically has a road in it or a bridge across it given the correct technology?

Humankind automatically creates roads between all your neighboring cities (though it has an easier job because the map is divided into separate territories which you usually colonize without gaps between cities). I want either this or some Feels Good way to build them yourself, not through really painful way of civ5 and very awkward indirect way of civ6.
 

Krajzen

Deity
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
3,293
Location
Poland
I suppose this is needless realism, but I don’t understand why great works have to be housed somewhere. Great paintings and sculptures, sure, but The Nutcracker isn’t stored at the Bolshoi Theater. The Tell-Tale Heart isn’t stored at a Stock Exchange in Baltimore. No one has to go see Poe’s library to appreciate The Raven.
Maybe there could be endowed chairs at universities? Or musical conservatories?

I always thought it was stupid that you had to create very specific buildings with very limited slots to store a damn painting (come on it's not even like they are only displayed in museums). But I have never before actually thought about the absurdity of having one and only physical copy of a freaking written work (even after the printing press) which you have to physically store in very hard to get, rare places. Literary and musical abstract constructs that can be copied being a physical Holy Grail. And of course there is an entire layer of annoying micromanagement coming with that. How many people enjoy browsing through dozen of those objects among all players to theme them for marginally more points, or shuffling 20 paintings between 7 museums, because Louvre in civ5 apparently can store only four paintings in the same time?
Can't we just have a separate screen, a Hall of Great Works, where they are all stored in an abstract way 'a Memory and Fame of a Nation', where you can click on each of them to see the work and its date and city of creation? With cultural minigame depth coming from something else... You could even have such Hall available to see for each player, along some comparisions. You could even exchange theming micromanagement for your works spreading across nations, winning popularity and prizes etc.

I also have a honorary mention of great nations bothering to top - bottom command spies to steal public greatest works from other nations public museums (petty!), putting them in your own museums, and them and global public opinion somehow not noticing anything, you getting cultural points from that, and btw the entire spy action being suboptimal use of spies anyway. I mean, getting mass amount of great works from conquest is perfectly realistic (hello British Museum), getting industrial amounts of culture from stealth theft of Mona Lisa from Louve and moving it into British Museum is absurd.

I mean, I love many concepts in the cultural game of civ5 and civ6, but weakest parts could be trimmed down in favour of more depth.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
8,604
Location
Texas
And, of course, every type of building should have some kind of Wonder as the Apex of that building type: the Library of Congress or British Museum Library for libraries, the Louvre for Art Museums, La Scala or The Met for Opera Houses, etc.
I'm surprised that we didn't get an Artifact Museum equivalent Wonder. I think building one that granted a free archaeologist would have been nice.

I suppose this is needless realism, but I don’t understand why great works have to be housed somewhere. Great paintings and sculptures, sure, but The Nutcracker isn’t stored at the Bolshoi Theater. The Tell-Tale Heart isn’t stored at a Stock Exchange in Baltimore. No one has to go see Poe’s library to appreciate The Raven.


Maybe there could be endowed chairs at universities? Or musical conservatories?
Based on their official alternative history videos, it seems that when you at least house a great work of writing at an amphitheater it's supposed to represent a dramatic presentation of the Great Work that would be shown there. I guess since you can theoretically move them it's similar to how acting troupes move from theater to theater.

I always thought it was stupid that you had to create very specific buildings with very limited slots to store a damn painting (come on it's not even like they are only displayed in museums).
No you can store them in Cathedrals (well religious paintings at least) your Palace too. :p
 

Leucarum

Emperor
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
1,408
I'm tempted to say builders. Just build improvements straight from your cities...

But, my #1 choice would have to be apostle/missionary spam. The religious game is a game of whack-a-mole which gets tedious fast.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
4,792
Location
north of Steilacoom, WA
I'm surprised that we didn't get an Artifact Museum equivalent Wonder. I think building one that granted a free archaeologist would have been nice.

The only problem I can see is that the 'artifact museum' model would have to be very, very carefully chosen: most of the real museums full of artifacts are full of artifacts now considered to have been stolen from their original countries, like the 'Elgin Marbles' that Greece has been trying to get back for most of this century, or the Ishtar Gate glazed tiles/bricks from Babylon that have been in Berlin or almost as long . . .
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
1,576
A lot of the speculation threads lately have been focusing either on new features that people want to see or old features that people dislike strongly and want to see removed. I wanted to focus on something different instead: what are the features of Civ that you don't really dislike strongly but wouldn't mind losing in a future version of the game? Here are a few that come to mind for me:

1) Spies. In real life, the primary purpose of spying is to gather information about enemy activity. In Civ, this is the least useful thing that spies do. The Spy unit in Civ 6 is a jack-of-all-trades who can harm your enemies directly (stealing Great Works, sabotaging Industrial Zones and Spaceports) but at other times just happens to sit in enemy territory while raking in money or helping you to catch up on your research. If spies only did offensive operations and counter-spying, and those offensive operations were a significant part of the mid-game and late-game, their inclusion might make more sense, but, as the system is now, it feels like fan-service is the primary motive for its inclusion.
Agree on some point that no spies directly do art thefts. These are the jobs of professional cat burglars =^w^= . Likewise burglars needed to be subtle like spies.
But in Cold War. Spies did meddle with either tech thefts or meddling with other countries politics inside. particularly puppeterrings, or instigating Coup d'Etat or uprisings. All Tyrannies, Civil Wars and terrorisms were the handyworks of the likes of CIA and Russian equivalents.

2) The Corps/Army/Fleet/Armada system. I don't really mind having the system in the game, but I don't feel like it adds much, and I suspect that Firaxis included the system in Civ 6 just to pay lip-service to 1UPT haters. "Look, guys! We brought back unit stacking--sort of!"
3) Support units. I like the premise, but I hardly ever built them. Why build a Battering Ram when a Warrior is much more versatile and can function on its own? If support units were significantly cheaper than normal military units or they were the only way to compensate for certain weaknesses that normal units have, they might be more valuable, but I would be fine having a Civ game without them.
Both 'Corps/Fleet' and 'Army/Armada' are purely artificial and 'out of place', The idea of these came from Civ5 ACW scenarios where you can 'upgrade' Infantry 'Regiments' into 'Divisions'. In truth these 'organizations' were composed of different unit types in one. the Corps as introduced by Napoleon Bonaparte are actually combined forces of several regiments as @Boris Gudenuf cited earlier.
At sea. even one Squadron of ships consists of 'different' types of combat vessels. US Navy 'Battlefleets' were made of Two carriers, three to five missile cruisers, several missile destroyers/frigates or corvettes, and some nuclear subs, when US Navy still uses Battleships, one battlefleet can have one or two BBs (usually the remaining ones in Cold War era). There never was a single fleet consisting of BBs alone, they might be however, a squadron of Destroyers led by bigger kin (usually a CL).

Also 'support units' were more or less 'permanent elements' of each respective army organizations at any level. AA guns never were a 'lone unit' but parts of regiments or divisions. Also AA guns are capable of shooting land targets as point defense system.
5) Individualized Great People. Having unique abilities certainly makes Great People more interesting, but it also makes the system much less scalable. (Firaxis couldn't just add 500 new Great Person names in a single patch if every one of them needed some distinguishing feature.) On top of that, it seems a little weird to have Great People who help you with things outside their specialization (e.g. Sun Tzu writing The Art of War).

This is why F'xis introduced 'Rock bands' as cultural agent unit.
ACTUALLY they should be called 'Entertainers' instead. which included more of those who did concert tours.
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
1,576
Rock Bands; This was a cute idea. But it didn't really fit with this game. And it can become an annoyance and disruption of game-flow.

I didn't have GS yet. Did Rock Bands do the same thing as Grat Musicians in Civ5? I think this unit came out of a request to introduce a unit that can do 'a concert tour' because Great Musicians in Civ6 can't do it anymore.
 

aieeegrunt

Emperor
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
1,176
The concept behind archaologists is kind of neat, and the Chad Indiana Jones artwork and names they got is amusing. They should have gone Full Ham and be able to fight each other over artifacts with whips Apostle Style.

The problem is it’s just more End Game Micro.
 
Top Bottom