Feudal Netherlands scenario : preview and help

[Zeekater]

I had another idea : POLDERS !

Some terrain that is now land but was see in middle-age would be marsh in my mod. That terrain would be totally useless and uncrossable, except for workers ( I'll try to deal with that ).

In tech tree : eolian energy + hydraulic -> polderization

When a civ discovers polderization, workers can change marsh to grasslands. So, dutchmen can really win terrain on the sea.

Make workers the only non-wheeled unit, and all other units wheeled
You won't have mountains impassable by tanks then, but there really isn't much terrain where tanks can't go

 

[MaisseArsouye]

Make workers the only non-wheeled unit, and all other units wheeled
You won't have mountains impassable by tanks then, but there really isn't much terrain where tanks can't go

That's a good idea. Sure, even the Ardennes can be crossed by tanks. So, it's not a problem. I'll try it.

I allready see Zealand beginning as "islands" and becoming what it is today

 

[Sengir]

That's a good idea. Sure, even the Ardennes can be crossed by tanks. So, it's not a problem. I'll try it.

The Germans actually did in 1944

Btw leaders are not nice: there wasn't any real scientific output in the Northern Netherlands then, most was centered in Flanders and Brabant. About military leaders: i think i can find some dukes and counts for Holland, Friesland, Gelre and Brabant. Bisshops for Utrecht shouldn't be to hard either.
The problem lies with Overijssel, Drenthe, Groningen and Zealand, because they were non-existent and thus had no rulers/leaders that i know of. Later rulers are not very helpfull, because they are the same in all of the Northern Netherlands (Count of Holland = Count of Drenthe = Count of Overijssel etc.)

 

[MaisseArsouye]

The problem lies with Overijssel, Drenthe, Groningen and Zealand, because they were non-existent and thus had no rulers/leaders that i know of. Later rulers are not very helpfull, because they are the same in all of the Northern Netherlands (Count of Holland = Count of Drenthe = Count of Overijssel etc.)

I have the same problems in Wallonia and Flanders. Sometimes Count of Namur = Duke of Luxembourg or Count of Flanders. And Count of Hainaut = Count of Flanders for a long time. But I found some names.

BTW, I allready have names for the leaders ( I mean the big boss ) of every civs. I neede to search a lot, but I did. I "just" need scientific and military ones.

I found a site with quite every famous Belgians of history, with the place of birth. It was easy to say wich civ they belong to and most belgian civs are complete. I even learned a walloon invented rollers : Jean-Joseph Merlin, from Huy !!! If we find something alike for the Netherlands, we're quite safe

 

[TopGun]

Add the German Duchy of Kleve and the Duchy of Berg. Both had lands along the Rhine river and their native dialect is very close to the Dutch language. (Kleve more than Berg). For good measure, why don't you throw in the Archdiocese of Cologne as well. The Archbishop of Cologne owned much of the lands west of the Rhine back then.
These three territories would nicely round off your mod in the East. (And would bring in the Germans... who after all, always were in close contact with the people of the Netherlands.)

 

[Lord_Azazel]

looking cool, so what is with civ 3 makers when we cant have strategic resources at sea?

 

[MaisseArsouye]

Add the German Duchy of Kleve and the Duchy of Berg. Both had lands along the Rhine river and their native dialect is very close to the Dutch language. (Kleve more than Berg). For good measure, why don't you throw in the Archdiocese of Cologne as well. The Archbishop of Cologne owned much of the lands west of the Rhine back then.
These three territories would nicely round off your mod in the East. (And would bring in the Germans... who after all, always were in close contact with the people of the Netherlands.)

I understand your point, but this is some work and I don't know anythinig about these countries ! What I did is place the Holy Germanic Empire as a whole. I allready have a lot of difficulties to find complete stuff for northern Netherlands

So, here's the deal I can propose to you, and everybody else. I have 24 civs right now, there are still 7 places free ! I agree to add any new civ if you can give me complete stuff :
- flag
- leader name + title
- cultural group ( walloon, french, flemish/dutch, german, english )
- traits
- city list ( original names )
- scientific and military leaders lists
- clear map
- UU I should use/request

And if possible an article for civilopedia, but this is not necessary.

 

[Sengir]

How many leaders do you want to use? I don't want to spent all night looking for tonnes of names, when you only need a handful?

Btw can you give me the names of the 'big bosses' (at least for the 'dutch' that is the Northern civs) wouldn't be much use if i give you names you already have

 

[MaisseArsouye]

If I have three leaders for each list, I'm happy. The most important is to have at least ONE.

Here are some names I got from researchs with Google. As I said, I don't know anything about this area I don't know if they are the most famous or the best choices. I just advoided to have three "Willem" or two "Boudewijn". If you have better, let me know
Friesland : Count Thierry
Gelre : Count Gerard
Zeeland : Count Gerulf
Groningen : Seigneur Ubbo
Overijssel : Seigneur Theodoric
Utrecht : Seigneur Johann
Drenthe : Count Mauritius

 

[MaisseArsouye]

All civs are placed :

France
England
Holy Germanic Empire
Artois
Cambrai
Namur
Gembloux
Hainaut
Lille
Tournai
Luxembourg
Liège
Gembloux
Stavelot
Limbourg
Brabant
Vlaanderen
Zeeland
Holland
Gelre
Utrecht
Overijssel
Mechelen
Groningen
Drenthe

25 civs. If you have an idea and complete stuff, there are still 6 places free

France, England and Germany are not playable : too easy. But I agree to split the Holy Germanic Empire and allow to play with its components.

If you are from one of those "civs" and can make a civpedia or give me informations, you're welcome.

 

[kevincompton]

This mod seems quite awesome. If you need any help let me know!

 

[MaisseArsouye]

This mod seems quite awesome. If you need any help let me know!

Thanks. What area of the map do you know ?

 

[kevincompton]

Hmm, i'm not very knowledgable to be honest with you, but I'm a mad man with the editor. If you want some data entry done (units and graphics put in) I'll help, in exchange for a little history on my scenario...

Deal?

 

[MaisseArsouye]

Hmm, i'm not very knowledgable to be honest with you, but I'm a mad man with the editor. If you want some data entry done (units and graphics put in) I'll help, in exchange for a little history on my scenario...

Deal?

It would be helpfull for me to have a good tester, tha tcan solve problems. And also somebody to check everything'a allright because I use the FRENCH version of civ and I know it can generates problems

send me a PM about your scenario

 

[MaisseArsouye]

Here's a preview with
- walloon cities ( Gembloux, Namur,... )
- flemish cities ( Leuven, Bruxelles,... )
- new fortresses ( like little castles )

If someone is interested in testing it, I can post a beta version

 

[kevincompton]

Looks like a painting! Very cool. Could you release a version without the graphics mod also? I like regular civ3 myself, but your scheme is freekin' awesome.

 

[MaisseArsouye]

Here's a beta version ( for conquest ) :

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/benelux_1.zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/benelux_2.zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/benelux_3.zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/benelux_4.zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/benelux_5.zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/benelux_6.zip

including :
- biq with all new civs
- flag leaderheads
- some new terrain building
- city graphics

Please notice that it's a test version

I'm working on the tech tree, but I take the occasion to make a complete new tech tree. So It might takes some time.

Then I'll add buildings and units.

If you want to add a new civs, you have to ask BEFORE I start adding buildings and units.

 

[Sengir]

Well I’m back from being occupied with the not so pleasant parts of my life, that is study and work , but since I have had some moments to spare, I found you a nice little leaderlist, though only military, the scientific are a little hard to find, as I mentioned earlier (I think). Maybe there is a link on the site you used for your scientific leaders to some dutch inventions….. otherwise I’ll have another go on Google
The names for Overijssel, Drenthe and Zeeland are picked from other provinces since those didn’t exist in 1200 (mostly Utrecht, which had the biggest list ) but I tried to find persons who did have something to do with the province I assigned them (for example: Frederik was one of the bishops who established some power in Overrijsel and even died there

Holland (you didn’t put their boss in your list, so if you don’t have one, you should probably go for Floris, he was kinda famous)
Floris
Aarnout
Robert
Diederik

Brabant (don’t know if you need them)
Lambert
Hendrik
Jan

Gelre
Reinoud
Karel
Dirk

Friesland
Egbert
Liudolf
Bruno

Utrecht (not Seigneur but bishop)
Balderik
Hartbert
Wilbrand

Overrijsel
Frederik
Rudolf
Zweder

Drenthe
Gozewijn
Gijsbrecht
Walraven

Zeeland
David
Philips
Arnold

 

[MaisseArsouye]

Thank you

I changed Utrecht from "Seigneur" to "Bishop".

Could someone give me the dutch words for :
count
abbot
prince ( prins ? )
bishop
duke
lord
maire ( burgmeester ? )
king ( koning ? )

The original version of this mod is in french of course. I'll make an english and a dutch version, but I need help for that.

I would also like to have a complete list of names and adjectives for thos dutch civs in DUTCH : Zeeland, Zeelanders ?

What I still need is :
scientific leader for Limbourg, Friesland, Gelre, Zeeland, Overijssel, Utrecht and Drenthe.

I still need great leaders list for Groningen and Mechelen.


Si des Français passent par ici, ils peuvent aussi m'aider pour Lille, Cambrai et l'Artois !!!!!!!

 

[Zeekater]

Dutch words:
count --- graaf
abbot --- abt
prince ( prins ? ) -- correct
bishop --- bisschop
duke -- hertog
lord -- hoogheid? but that would be highness, hmmm
maire -- burgemeester
king ( koning ? ) -- correct