Few questions from a returning player

Snowstorm

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
27
Hi folks.

Picked up civ2 again recently, I find it much more satisfying that civ4. Having just got back into it (i played it on and off a few years back) i'v been playing it more seriously and am currently in my first game on King :)
Wondered if you could enlighten me to a few things I couldn't find out trawling through the various strategy forums around the place.

How many cities can you build before the number of cities affects happiness? I know somewhere i found a chart that showed how many cities you could build depending on map size and/or govornment type, but i'v lost the link.

Is there anywhere that will tell me what resources i will get from the city square when i build a city on the various different terrains? Having tinkered with civ4 a bit, i assumed all the squares would provide equal resources but it seems its not the case.

It seems building roads to my capital reduces corruption, but i read some vague notes on how to make this work properly. Anyone explain this? Also, do rivers count as roads in this respect? As you can't build roads on rivers at the start, i wondered if they counted.

Also, should i get the +1 trade bonus from building a road on a square if that square contains a river?

Thanks folks, and i look forward to having a go at the GOTM (and getting my ass handed to me :p)
 
How many cities can you build before the number of cities affects happiness? I know somewhere i found a chart that showed how many cities you could build depending on map size and/or govornment type, but i'v lost the link.

This is known as the riot factor. It also depends on the difficulty level, so you should have other methods of dealing with unhappiness by the time it kicks in on King. Deity, despotism and large map give the riot factor at 4 cities. Try doing a search on the "riot factor."

Is there anywhere that will tell me what resources i will get from the city square when i build a city on the various different terrains? Having tinkered with civ4 a bit, i assumed all the squares would provide equal resources but it seems its not the case.

The city square will give you the same production as would that square if it were being worked by a citizen, with a couple of exceptions. The square will be irrigated (if supported by the terrain) and roaded when the city is built. Also, when you discover railroad and refrigeration the squares will be upgraded. Also, the city square will always produce at least one shield.

It seems building roads to my capital reduces corruption, but i read some vague notes on how to make this work properly. Anyone explain this? Also, do rivers count as roads in this respect? As you can't build roads on rivers at the start, i wondered if they counted.

This is known as the "critical path." If there is a road or railroad connection on the critical path between 2 cities, the value of their trade routes is increased, and if a city is connected to the capital, its corruption is decreased. The critical path is supposed to be the shortest route overland between 2 cities, but the computer determines this in a sometimes strange way. The crittical path is often different when going from city A to city B than when going from city B to city A. It is rather confusing and usually causes redundancy in the road system. The easiest way to determine the critical path is to go into cheat mode and play around with the road system. Rivers do not give a crittical path bonus.

I wouldn't bother with the critical path to reduce corruption; you can probably get more benefit from roading strategic tiles that are being worked.

Also, should i get the +1 trade bonus from building a road on a square if that square contains a river?

A road will give a trade bonus to all squares that already produce trade (including all squares that have a river) and to grassland, plains and deserts. The decision to road your rivers must depend on how many other potential jobs your settlers/engineers have. It is usually better to road a worked non-river square than to road a river because it takes less time (and if playing republic or democracy it will give 2 trade instead of just one more).
 
For an example of the crittical path, check the "Embargo" succession game in the Stories and Tales forum 99th post.

Also, there are links for both the riot factor and the critical path roads (also known as "trade roads") in the index thread, near the top of this forum.
 
Thanks for the prompt response prof :)

i'll go look up the riot factor.. i had assumed from my reading it was something to do with the black hat guys that it seems pop up on harder levels than the one im playing, but not having seen any yet (im just trying the game on king atm) i skipped this for reading later.

the critical path seems a little complex to worry overly about.. my cities are generally all so small atm they dont have that much corruption anyways.

i'll go back to it later i think.. i have other things i'd like to get the hang of first (governments and trade routes being important ones i think).

cheers again prof :>
 
I have a question of my own. What bonuses do river give besides being able to irrigate next to them and providing a movement bonus?
 
I have a question of my own. What bonuses do river give besides being able to irrigate next to them and providing a movement bonus?

Rivers give an extra defense bonus of 50%. They also add 1 trade to whatever terrain they run through.

A quick note on the riot factor: A large map on deity allows a player to build 6 cities in despotism without suffering additional unhappiness, not 4 as I wrote earlier.
 
Rivers give an extra defense bonus of 50%. They also add 1 trade to whatever terrain they run through.
Thank you! I hope I can edit that through the scen editor...somehow...
 
What about the effects of pollution? and what bonuses does and airbase give? (actual, not intended)
 
Pollution reduces production of all resources on the affected square by half (rounded up). An airbase give full improvements to the square, including both mines and farmland along with railroads. An airbase also prevents pollution apearing in its square. Furthermore, only 1 unit at a time is killed if attacked while stacked in an airbase.
 
I've noticed that even though an airbase allows movement as if it had a railroad, the computer does not seem to take that into account when choosing a route while doing a "go". So if you want to avoid using a slower route you may have to manually maneuver units through the airbase(s) if you haven't already roaded/railroaded them.
 
Pollution reduces production of all resources on the affected square by half (rounded up). An airbase give full improvements to the square, including both mines and farmland along with railroads. An airbase also prevents pollution apearing in its square. Furthermore, only 1 unit at a time is killed if attacked while stacked in an airbase.
Thank you! I have a last question that has more to do with modding than playing. As far I know you have to have water nearby to irrigate (as a player). Is it possible to have a certain terrain that would always be irrigatable even if there's desert around? I know the computer can do whatever it pleases. What of PC?
 
As far as I know, you have to have a source of water to irrigate, which is to say irrigation, river or ocean. The only way to get around this (aside from cheating) is to use the "automted settler" command, which gives the computer control of your settler. This settler can irrigate without water access, but there is no way to get it to irrigate the square you want instead of doing something else.

Not requiring the computer to have water access was probably a way to make programming easier.
 
As far as I know, you have to have a source of water to irrigate, which is to say irrigation, river or ocean. The only way to get around this (aside from cheating) is to use the "automted settler" command, which gives the computer control of your settler. This settler can irrigate without water access, but there is no way to get it to irrigate the square you want instead of doing something else.
Thats a thought! I need to experiment on this, might work well :)

Not requiring the computer to have water access was probably a way to make programming easier.
I do not know a thing about hex editing!...

Thanks a lot for all the help! :)
 
I didn't mean hex-editing. I meant that the programers had to design a lot of algorithms to get the computer to behave "intelligently" (or, for that matter, to behave at all). I imagine it was much easier to develop a program that told settlers to irrigate based on a priority list for terrain than it would have been to have it also compute the effort required to get water access, and then to bring the water over.
 
Still difficult for me :) I only know the editor to play with.
 
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