FFH-01: Fall From Heaven Fantasy SG

[hamtastic]

Hey there, I'm out of town right now, so I may not be able to play my turns until Monday. If Sina would like to switch with me, that would be fine, or you can just wait until Monday to get any more action. I agree, it looks a bit rough right now, but I'm sure something good will happen.

Anyway, let's cut down to 15 turns each now (still goes a bit slow, you know)

 

[Sina]

I won't be able to play before Tuesday. Hubby is not willing to vacate his computer today and I'm out all night/all day tomorrow.

 

[Xtream_Rockstar]

WE ARE THE FIRST FFH SG ON CIV4 !!!! i think so atleast but if we are not just tell me but ive looked but they are no other SGs with FFH so that makes us NUMBER 1 yah!!!

 

[hamtastic]

Here is my fascinating turn report. I think the earlier pessimism might have been a bit uncalled for, although we are going to need to step things up soon. Most specifically, I think we need a wonder - either the Great Library or the Parthenon would be best in my mind. Anyway, here goes:

(turn numbers indicate the number of turns for me, not the overall time, obviously)

1: things get started

2: I move the worker down to put cottages on the plains (why are there farms there? doesn't make sense), move the warrior to pillage the copper (although I highly doubt they've mined it yet)

3: Warfare comes in, so I adopt conquest. I start writing for a variety of reasons: we need libraries, we need to get towards religion, etc.

4-5: one of our scouts gets killed

5-9: troop production, movement, etc.

9: that city over there to the NE finsihes a training yard and starts a barracks. Irritatingly, our warrior that has the two city attack promotions gets killed because I had him hanging out by himself.

10: troop movement

14: Meanodor wants Open Borders (available with writing, which we just discovered). Ok, why not? I start Philosophy to continue our move toward religion (I think we'll be able to get one). I ponder switching our civi to apprenticeship for the +2 xp, but it costs -10% military unit production. I don't do it for now, although I might suggest that we adopt that and switch back to health instead of conquest so our cities can grow more.

15: Nieludh wants peace. No, you jerk, we're about to capture your cities! Speaking of which, we capture Raglame.

Sorry I have no screen shots, but, then again, nothing particularly interesting-looking happened. We're in good shape to capture our next city and there is a vague possibility we could move on their capital, although we'll have to see about that. I think moving toward a religion is good, and I really think we should try for either Parthenon or Great Library. So I guess I'll just have to see what happens. Good luck!

 

[Lobsterboy]

Speaking of which, we capture Raglame.

Nice! One down, one to go. We absolutely must take Bastradam. Doing so will allow us easier access to the rest of the continent, while potentially cutting off Nieludh's access and castrating him for the rest of the game. If we can continue on to raze his capital so much the better, but we shouldn't let our empire stagnate while we try to eliminate him from the game completely.

I would advocate the switch to Apprenticeship now. Warriors are pretty cheap, and I don't think -10% will make that much difference. With +7 experience coming out of the box, our Warriors should be able to get City Raider III promotions with just a single victory! Later, we can upgrade them to Axemen/Macemen, which will be most useful for future conquests.

Did you manage to ferry a worker up to Dragon Breath to mine our copper?

I'm still pessimistic about discovering a religion, but I support forging ahead until the AI civs actually beat us.

Here's hoping for more good news during the next set of turns!

 

[Sina]

I got it.

I'll try to get that city and continue trying to get a religion. I'll also switch to Apprenticeship as the -10% are negligible to the advantage of +2xp in my opinion.
Will either play soonish or tomorrow morning, a bit tired right now.

 

[Sina]

I couldn't really sleep, so decided to play right away.

115
Revolt to Apprenticeship and up science to 80% to shave a turn off Philosophy.

IBT: Lose a warrior, but he takes one of Nieludh's with him.

116
Parthenon BIDAL
Kill one defender in Bastradom, but bad odds for the next. I should be able to promote to CR1 next turn and finish the job.

117
Finished the job. Bastradom is ours. Losses: 0. Gains: A city and a worker.

118
Kill the offending warrior at Shazak.

119
Runes FIDAL
Nieludh has 3 warriors and a scout in the capital. We have 1 CR2 and 1 CR3 warrior from Bastradam plus 2 CR3 warriors coming up from Raglame (they'll have to take another city first). That'll do.

120
Marina founded Runes.

121
Philosophy -> Religious Law
Well, I wouldn't go for a Religion right now. We need other techs more I think, but I don't like to go against the consensus. I chose Order over Ashen Veil for no particular reason. I'm hoping the AI will be slower for the Order.

122
Hanging Gardens BIDAL
I'm changing production to infra now. We have enough military and need libraries, temples and markets much more.
Nieludh has two warriors and a scout in Linkbone (the city to the N of Raglame). We have 2 CR3 warriors there. We'll own it soon.

123
Orthuss Axe changes hands far away and my Graphics crash once again.
Take out the two warriors in Linkbone.

124
Nieludh reinforeced Linkbone. Warrior + Scout there now, but that didn't help him. We take the city.
I lose the CR2 warrior at the capital with 96% odds.

125
Change civics back to Agriculture.

127
I park a warrior at the barb city. Wrong promotions for offense, but should survive attacks. He is combat 3 and shock.

128
Well, that was apparently not good enough. The first barb warrior attacking out of the city kills our warrior in a jungle tile.
We take Nieludh's capital without losses. He has only one more city to the N of it.

131
I played an extra turn to see to the demise of Nieludh. Hope that was ok.
So, he is no more and we have 3 more cities. Economy is in the dump and needs working on.

Our capital grew accidentally unhappy and is starving on purpose now.

I'm not happy with research at all. We need happiness and health more than anything now. We need to grow. We have a lot of resurces around, so we should get the techs for it. Calendar/Tracking/Hunting/Survival are all urgently needed.
Calendar first as we have a Sugar without Jungle on it at Linkbone!
I put Shazak on Prophet duty. Use them for border expansions where needed most (Linkbone/Dragon Breath first).

Copper is connected at Drangon Breath and the Barracks will finish next turn. I suggest moving the warriors with 20+xp there, upgrade them to Axes and take out the barb city south of Drangon Breath.

I have no idea where exactly Marina is, but she has a city right next to Dragon Breath. Maybe scout a bit and if the Holy City isn't too far away, take it from her and get a Religion that way. Not much can stand in the way of 4 or 5 CR3/Shock Axes this early in the game. But have a look what her military consists of first.

Screens:







The Save:
View attachment 125490

 

[Lobsterboy]

Nicely done, Sina! That little war worked out better than I expected! We might have been better off razing a couple of Nieludh's cities in order to keep our economy/research from crashing, filling up the territory later when the economy is more robust. Plus capturing Nubian now will be a more severe blow to the economy - I don't know if we can afford to take it, but on the other hand, I'd hate to see Marina get it.

Once Astrakan comes out of revolt, we'll get the health benefit from the Rice.
Unfortunately, tech trading won't be around for a while (I forget what tech is required, but it is never as early as I expect it to be.)

Good call putting Shazak to build Prophets. In my single games, I've started including them in my invasion stacks to bring captured cities out of revolt immediately, but I forget that they can also be used instead of Obelisks for culture border expansions.

 

[Xtream_Rockstar]

okay im picken up

 

[Xtream_Rockstar]

here is how it went down my turn

turn 5: prophet built started on barracks in a city
turn 7: we take nubian and two workers from the barrbarions
turn 8: Market built start on Pagan temple in capital

WAR What is it good for i ask you EVERYTHING
turn 14: War with marina (we could take her holy city and use it for our own)
turn 16: Sacked a Merfolk town
turn 17: Vulgon offers open borders i accept
turn 18: marhiavelli compleats wealthiest civs in the world and we are number 1
turn 20: Started on a elders consal

even though we are the most weathiest civ we cant maintain it (look at screenies) we need to sack more cities except for holy cities (unless its rival religon) By the pace we are going we are more likely to win by a conquest or domination victory then a religosView attachment 125534
View attachment 125535View attachment 125536
On to you lobby

 

[Lobsterboy]

Kreiky! Another war already? *SIGH* No rest for the weary.

Got the save. It's late here on the East Coast. Not sure if I'll play tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Lobsterboy]

With the Clans of Chaos at war, this is no time for sleep!

Played 17 turns to bring us to turn 170. Lots of action, so get to it!

Inherited Turn: 153
Library in Astrakan can wait. Temple would be more immediately useful.
Astrakan begins: Pagan Temple
Similarly, Raglame will be a good production city some day, but for now, a Temple would be better than a Barracks
Raglame begins: Pagan Temple
Also switch Linkbone to Temple
Linkbone begins: Pagan Temple
Move Prophet in Nubian up to join main Warrior Army in North for his healing powers.

Marina has Holy Cities for both Fellowship of Leaves and Runes of Kilmorph! Not for long!

Hey! There's a Merfolk Scout outside of our capital! We'd better eliminate him...
Warrior from Renegade Hill loses to Merfolk Scout
*DOH!* Odds were 89.1%, and Warrior loses! Fortunately, we have a second Warrior defender...
Warrior from Renegade Hill defeats Merfolk Scout

Turn 154

Turn 155
Renegade Hill finishes: Adept -> Great Library
Even if we miss it, we could use the $$!

Turn 156
Vulgon converts to Fellowship of Leaves
Olricstaad (Leaves Holy City) is only size 1. Worried that I might autoraze it if I capture it. Therefore, will bypass it and head to Marina's next closest city, Mortensholm.

Turn 157
Shazak finishes: Axeman -> Prophet
Axeman promoted: Dwarf Slaying
Axeman promoted: Shock I
Moving Axeman with Adept from R-Hill to join main Army.

Turn 158
Dragon Breath finishes: Library -> Axeman

Turn 159
Marina has Dwarfen Soldier and Warrior defending Mortehsholm.
The Battle for Mortensholm:
Warrior defeats Merfolk Dwarven Soldier in Mortensholm (1.0/2.0 left)
Warrior defeats Merfolk Warrior in Mortensholm (1.8/2.0 left)
Mortensholm is captured!



Mortensholm is razed!

Turn 160
Astrakan finishes: Pagan Temple -> Market
Damn! Pagan Temples don't provide Culture, only provide +10% modifier. Stupid me!
Contact made: Pelixia of the Ancients of the Forest
Ancients's Privateer shows up on our Western shore.

Warrior promoted: Dwarf Slaying
Warrior promoted: Combat II

Turn 161
Merina has 4 cities left. Two Warriors and a Scout are defending the Capital Urslo.

Turn 162
Marina sues for Peace - AS IF!!
Two Axemen and Adept join up with main Army group. Double movement from here on out!

Turn 163
Bastradam finishes: Barracks -> Axeman
Dwarven Soldier is guarding farm next to Urslo. Our Dwarf-slaying Axeman should make quick work of him...
Axeman defeats Merfolk Dwarven Soldier (3.4/4.0 left)
The Battle for Urslo:
Axeman defeats Merfolk Warrior in Urslo (4.0/4.0 left)
Warrior defeats Merfolk Warrior in Urslo (2.0/2.0 left)
Warrior defeats Merfolk Warrior in Urslo (1.2/2.0 left)
Warrior defeats Merfolk Scout in Urslo (1.2/2.0 left)
Urslo is captured!



Urslo is razed!
Also captured 1 Worker.

Turn 164
Axeman promoted: Combat II

Turn 165
Shazak finishes: Prophet -> Axeman
Moving Prophet to Linkbone for a border pop to bring in Incense.
Barbarian at the gates of Nubian. He has Combat II vs. our Combat I defender. (Make a small burnt offering to the RNG.)

Turn 166
Great Prophet born in Shazak
Put him to sleep for now. Will eventually use him to build Holy Temple
Barbarian Warrior pillages Cottage outside of Nubian.

Turn 167
Warrior defending Nubian defeated by Barbarian Warrior(0.2/2.0 left)!
Nubian captured by Barbarian State
Nubian razed by Barbarian State
Apparently the RNG ignored my supplications! Oh well. Win some, lose some. At least the economy improves some (-11 to -6 @ 50% research)!
We had a Warrior moving to intercept, but he is one turn too late.
Warrior defeats Barbarian Warrior in ruins of Nubian (2.0/2.0 left)!

We have found Heimseter, the Runes Holy City, and it is defended by a lone unpromoted Warrior!!
Axeman defeats Merfolk Warrior in Heimseter(4.0/4.0 left)

The lone defending Warrior decides to swan dive from the ramparts rather than face our menacing Axeman! The judges give him extra style points for doing it while holding onto his club!



Heimseter is captured!!
**THE RUNES HOLY CITY IS OURS!!**

We discover Fjirgard - Marina's last great city. It is defended by a Combat III promoted Dwarven Soldier and 2 Warriors. That Dwarf might be tough to crack, but we should take the city eventually.
Prophet produces Great Work in Linkbone
Linkbone's borders expand
Incense comes in and all but two cities are happy!!

Turn 168
Pelixa begins a Golden Age!
Axeman promoted: City Raider III
The Dwarven Soldier has moved our of Fjirgard onto a forest tile. Let's see if our Dwarf slayers are up to the task...
Axeman defeats Merfolk Dwarven Soldier (3.2/4.0 left)

Turn 169
Dragon Breath finishes: Axeman -> Axeman
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Axeman promoted: Shock I
Axeman promoted: Combat III
The Battle for Fjirgard:
Warrior defeats Merfolk Warrior in Fjirgard (1.7/2.0 left)
Warrior defeats Merfolk Warrior in Fjirgard (1.8/2.0 left)
Fjirgard is captured!
Fjirgard is razed!
Also capture another Worker.

The Fellowship of Leaves Holy City is all that remains of the Mefolk Empire! We'll pick that off as soon as it hits population 2.

Turn 170
Linkbone finishes: Pagan Temple -> Library
Warrior promoted: Cover I

Unquestioned Obedience in 9. Once this is in, we should head to Code of Laws - we need Courthouses to reduce our expenses.

Shazak will produce an Axeman in a couple of turns. Recommend moving him to defend Renegade Hill, and move Warrior there south do bust fog at the bottom of our home pennisula. I don't want to lose another city to a Barb!

We are still hemorraging $$, but we now have over 400 in the bank. Things should improve once we start spreading Runes around. (Heimseter will come out of revolt in 2 turns.) I recommend we convert to Runes ASAP (need to research Dwarven Studies first), as this will provide +3 GP for each city that has it. Also, we should move our Great Prophet sleeping in Shazak to Heimseter to found the Holy Temple for even more $$.

We might want to cancel our Open Borders with Vulgon. His empire is nearly as big as ours, and we don't want him settling in the now smoking ruins of Marina's once glorious empire.

The Save:

 

[Xtream_Rockstar]

all right good job hamtastic ur up

 

[hamtastic]

Hey there,

I played my turns yesterday, and again I have no screenshots. This time it's because all the shots I took ended up looking quite strange. So I apologize - there were actually some things I wanted to show. Hopefully next time it will work the proper way. I cut down to 10 turns this time, since I figure things are really getting moving. Here's what happened

Turns 1-3: Ummm. I move troops around and stuff. I'm sort of confused as to what to do with all these troops. Incidentally, I start Form of the Titan in one of our cities since there doesn't seem to be much else particularly great to build, and the +2 xp everywhere would be nice.

Turn 3: I capture Olricstaad (the Leaves Holy City) after "forcing" it to grow by standing on the gold mine it was working, making it work a different tile. Woo and stuff!

Turns 4-6 I build some stuff - trying to do some infrastructure, like libraries and whatnot. (and the temple in the runes city so we can spread the religion) Leaves spreads to Bastradam.

Turn 8: We have founded The Order! Yippee! Holy crud! The order spreads to LInkbone and Shazak instantly. For lack of anything better to do, I send the acolyte to Renegade Hill to spread the order there too. We also got a Commander from founding the Order, who I've put to sleep - I'll leave it up to some discussion as to what to do with him. I think founding a golden age is basically the only thing I REALLY don't want to do with him. FYI, I start on calendar so we can hook up a few resources. It's a quick tech to research, also.

Turn 9: I spread the order in Renegade Hill. If we switch to the Order, it will give us two happy in each of thsoe cities, which could certainly be useful. Leaves spreads to another one of our cities, and Overlords is founded in a distant land.

Turn 10: movement and stuff

After-turn commentary: There are probably a few things that will make you scratch your heads some. So sorry about that. Here's why it is that way. I didn't want to revolt to Runes because we only have one city with Runes, and it doesn't seem like that much of a benefit. We have three cities with Leaves, and switching to that would help relations with Vulgon, but I think we should attack Vulgon anyway. We have 4 cities with the order, plus the holy city is bigger than the holy cities of the other religions. Anyway, the number of turns we would have been in religion was minimal. I think the next player should switch over to something, though. Doesn't matter too much to me what it is.

The Great Library will be done in 4 turns, which should help us a lot with science. Things are going well, but I think we should stay on the offensive. After all, we have all these nice promoted troops right now, we should use them, rather than just letting them become obsolete by having them sit around. I see a war on Vulgon. (His closest city has only 1 warrior defending!)

 

[Lobsterboy]

I didn't want to revolt to Runes because we only have one city with Runes, and it doesn't seem like that much of a benefit. We have three cities with Leaves, and switching to that would help relations with Vulgon, but I think we should attack Vulgon anyway. We have 4 cities with the order, plus the holy city is bigger than the holy cities of the other religions. Anyway, the number of turns we would have been in religion was minimal. I think the next player should switch over to something, though. Doesn't matter too much to me what it is.

I would switch to the Order. Off hand, I can't remember what bonus the Order confers. Runes is nice because of the extra gold (+3/city, I think), but we can switch to it later, if necessary, once we spread it around. (I don't think we've researched the tech to spread religions yet.) We're Spiritual aren't we, so we don't suffer Anarchy when we switch religions or civics.

Things are going well, but I think we should stay on the offensive. After all, we have all these nice promoted troops right now, we should use them, rather than just letting them become obsolete by having them sit around. I see a war on Vulgon. (His closest city has only 1 warrior defending!)

Our first two wars have gone so well, I'm almost tempted to make war on Vulgon immediately! The only arguement against doing so is that we really can't afford to expand any more until we get some courthouses and other infrastructure improvements. Since we have open borders, We should use our Army to start scouting his lands. If he makes a move to colonize Marina's lands, cancel our agreement.

The last time I checked, Meandor only had a few cities,(maybe 3?) We may be able to eliminate him rather easily too. Hell, maybe we should just eliminate them all!

Commanders can build Command Posts and recruit units, neither of which really appeal to me. Although, if we do build Form of the Titan (+2) and a Command Post (+1?), I think that new units in the CP city will get +7 experience under Conquest (+2) and Apprenticeship (+2). Of course we could also use the Commander to get a tech, but it would probably be a cheap one (Tracking?)

Speaking of Tech, I'm torn between making a bee-line for Feral Bond (and the Baron), going toward Macemen to upgrade our Army, or toward Trade so that we can tech trade with (or demand tribute from!) the AIs. Because we do have an experience army, I'll probably go the Maceman route.

 

[hamtastic]

Hey Lobsterboy, A few comments.

EDIT: you are up now. I think xtream handed it off to me by accident, but it should have been lobsterboy. OH well. Here is the new, revised roster for now, which should work fine.

1)Hamtastic (just played)
2)Lobsterboy (up now)
3)Sina (on deck)
4)Xtream_rockstar

So correct me if I'm wrong

On the tech path thing - I would head for Code of Laws. Maintenance is already hurting us pretty badly, and I actually think we should expand our empire some more. We might also want to consider some sort of path to some boats, since I get the impression the other civs are across the ocean - not sure though. Of course, more war is good war

FYI, canceling OB with Vulgon won't do much, since there's plenty of open space in between us and him.

 

[Lobsterboy]

Hey Lobsterboy, A few comments.

EDIT: you are up now. I think xtream handed it off to me by accident, but it should have been lobsterboy. OH well. Here is the new, revised roster for now, which should work fine.

1)Hamtastic (just played)
2)Lobsterboy (up now)
3)Sina (on deck)
4)Xtream_rockstar

So correct me if I'm wrong

Actually, Sina should be up. I played just before you! (I didn't get much sleep last night - TOO MUCH CIV!! - and my brain is only semi-functional.)

The order from the 2nd page of the thread:

1) hamtastic (just played)
2) Sina *UP NOW*
3) Xtream_Rockstar (on deck)
4) Lobsterboy

On the tech path thing - I would head for Code of Laws. Maintenance is already hurting us pretty badly, and I actually think we should expand our empire some more.

Oh yeah, that's right. I actually proposed heading to Code of Laws at the end of my turns. (I really am not functional today!)

Regarding religion, switching to Leaves might be better. Vulgon has converted to Leaves, so if we switch to it, we will get to spy on at least one or two of his cities.

We might also want to consider some sort of path to some boats, since I get the impression the other civs are across the ocean - not sure though. Of course, more war is good war

I think boats can wait. We've got plenty of space on our own continent, and the other AIs (how many more are there?) will contact us soon enough. The only reason to go that route now is for Trade.

 

[hamtastic]

Yes, yes. In my original post, I said Sina was up, but then I got confused somehow. I think it was because xtream said I was up in a post, so I thought he had played. ANyway, your roster is the correct one, and it looks like we have some direction. On the number of AIs left: I think there might be one more at most. NOt many, in any case.

Also, about AIs: if we do this again, I think we should go in for agressive AI

 

[Sina]

I'm visiting my family until 9th of May, so I'll need a skip. I have internet access here, but no computer capable of running CIV.

------

I really would like to get Tracking/Hunting/Survival next, then probably Iron Working to see which religion we should adopt. If we don't have Iron, we probably should go with Runes as the wonder gives free Iron.
We also should built the Drangon Horde wonder (comes with Survival) as that gives free Gems (which you need for the Runes 2nd tier priest). Our commander could help with that.

We certainly also need Col and Trade/Currency.
Then we should go to Sorcery/Summoning/Arcane Lore to get Mages/Conjures and the 100% science wonder.
And don't forget to build a lot of Adepts before researching Sorcery. We'll be grateful for the extra movement and they can be upgraded to Mages/Conjurers.

We'll also need whatever gives us catapults, although we need only 3 for each attack group. The collateral damage will be caused by the pile of fireballs we get from our Mages.
The Baron is sure a good research goal as well. I like playing with him. He is really effective and who can say no to an army of Werewolves.


I haven't played a full game with the Order yet, so I don't know what benefits and Heroes it gives.
The Runes will give us lots of cash and Bambur who is quite capable. They don't give culture though.
Leaves would let us grow our cities big, but they'd be poor. That's not what we want with a big military.
So, I'd say Order or Runes and wait with the decission until we know about Iron.

This looks very much like we'll try to win by war, so go and get on with the next one.

 

[Lobsterboy]

Given all of the room we have to settle, I think heading to CoL should take priority.

Your reasoning relating to choosing our Religion is sound. However, since we control the Leaves Holy City, I think a conversion now would be useful just to spy on Vulgon's cities. Ultimately, I do think we'll want to adopt Runes or Order, but we can always switch after a couple of turns. (And because we are Spiritual, we won't suffer the Anarchy penalty.)

Good point about building Adepts. In my first single player game, I didn't realize that you lose the ability to build them once you discover Mages, so I only had one to assist moving my armies around for the whole game. Very frustrating.

Revised roster:

1) hamtastic (just played)
2) Sina *skipped*
3) Xtream_Rockstar *UP NOW*
4) Lobsterboy (on deck)