FfH2 0.20 WarScript Feedback

I can understand that a rising armageddon count can make people nervous, especially after a blight and the four riders of the apocalypse set foot in our lands, but the AI should remain realistic ! Why declare war on a strong friend, when there is someone you are neutral to and that is responsable for all the bad things happening in the world ? I mean, i founded the Ashen Veil, i built an entropy node and a death node, i razed several cities, i spreaded my religion, yet the AI prefer to war each other. Surprisingly, one might think it is because i was too strong, but it didn't prevent a few of them from attacking me.
why? because it's coolTM
;)
 
Orthus also messes with the warscript a bit.

In one of my test games I was attacked by orthus, and fought him off only after loosing one of my cities, and was immediately dogpiled.

While it is "realistic" I need a break after being attacked like that...

maybe this means everyone should go down like 4 difficulty... like the dev team is trying to force everyone down to settler...
 
hi

nah, the difficulty ain't that bad, just make sure you create lots and lots of warriors, and keep good diplomacy with your neighboors.
The only thing that messes you up is the sailor's dirge if it happens to find you before you have your second town, because it keeps sending waves and waves of skeletons; the result would be that you are eventually killed by the pirates or the other civilizations goes too far ahead and dogpile you.
 
pay attention to the Power graph, not just the Score. (hit F9 and then when the Score graph comes up click "Score" box and switch it to "Power")

in most games i find im waaaayyy low on the power graph, the AI will declare war on you if they have a lot more power than you, and with most builder type players they tend to be exceptionally weak power wise. usually this leads to many AIs declaring war on human players and the game seems hard. try creating a bigger army and going out of your way to help out AIs will gifts.

its not that theyre backstabbing you, they prolly just consider you incompetent at protecting yourself and would rather see your cities in their hands then someone elses heh
 
pay attention to the Power graph, not just the Score. (hit F9 and then when the Score graph comes up click "Score" box and switch it to "Power")

in most games i find im waaaayyy low on the power graph, the AI will declare war on you if they have a lot more power than you, and with most builder type players they tend to be exceptionally weak power wise. usually this leads to many AIs declaring war on human players and the game seems hard. try creating a bigger army and going out of your way to help out AIs will gifts.

its not that theyre backstabbing you, they prolly just consider you incompetent at protecting yourself and would rather see your cities in their hands then someone elses heh


hehe I usually get myself few, but powerful/high level units, and let them "backstab" me; so i won't get the diplomacy penalty AND it makes boo have a lil righteous buttkicking time~
 
I think you should lower the threshold for AI's to consider war at the player's behest, especially with the dogpile script. As Hyborem, I have +11 with Sheelba, and she doesn't like me enough to consider war with Var Gosam, who has declared war on her in the past, and is right next to her.
 
I think you should lower the threshold for AI's to consider war at the player's behest, especially with the dogpile script. As Hyborem, I have +11 with Sheelba, and she doesn't like me enough to consider war with Var Gosam, who has declared war on her in the past, and is right next to her.

K, I droped them, mostly on the evil leaders who should be more eager to declare war.
 
I'm not particularly happy with the new war script, for a variety of reasons.

1) The AIs are far too willing to go to war, even with fast friends. In my current game, I'm playing an OCC with the Kuriotates on Monarch. I founded Runes and have been in the religion the whole game, spreading it to Varn and Mahala. Varn eventually summoned Basium, who converted to Runes too. Now, you think this would be enough to keep them from attacking me? No. Keelyn (who founded the Ashen Veil and the Octopus Overlords) declared on me, and I was already at war with Hyborem, and shortly after this, Varn/Basium declared on me, followed by Mahala also declaring war on me. Mahala I can understand, since he's supposed to be an opportunistic bastard, but Varn/Basium should not have declared war on me, their faithful co-religious Good ally from the beginning of the game, while ignoring Keelyn and Hyborem.

2) The dogpile functionality, in general, is bad for the game, IMO. I feel like I'm playing Civ2 again, where the AIs would all gang up on the human player. I didn't play much before patch f, but it seems to me the threshold for declaring war is too low: AIs should go to war only when they think there's something to gain, much like human players. I'd prefer a method of encouraging people to build defenders via a less gamey mechanism, if that's what the dogpile's goal is.

3) Despite declaring war more often, the AIs aren't any better at waging it. Their biggest problem is they just don't build enough units, and they don't collect the units they do build into attacking stacks. I've fought with Mahala, Keelyn, Basium/Varn, and Hyborem, and I've yet to see more than a few pillagers enter my lands. In unmodded civ, I usually play with BetterAI, so I'm used to its dagger strategy: a good human can still beat its stacks, but it requires more units and better tactics. While the details of FFH2's combat system are a lot different, it seems to me that the general outlines of the dagger strategy are still applicable: build lots of units, group them in large stacks, and avoid pillaging with all but a small fraction of units. Might it be possible to introduce this to FFH2? (I'm a novice programmer, and I'm not very familiar with C++, so I'm afraid I can't easily answer this question myself.)
 
Just an off-topic comment: Mahala is a womam.

They really have to get some kind of pedia entry or something that will make it nice and clear for everyone to realize that fact. :lol:
 
:dubious: So I was Varn Gosam, and Cardith Lorda declared war on me from halfway across the world on year 55, sending two warriors my way. No, I didn't have "random personalities" checked.
 
Orthus also messes with the warscript a bit.

In one of my test games I was attacked by orthus, and fought him off only after loosing one of my cities, and was immediately dogpiled.

While it is "realistic" I need a break after being attacked like that...

Why should the AI give you a break?
 
I find that the excessive dogpiling is terrible for my diplomacy rationgs. Often every turn I have people asking me to declare war, and when I don't, I recieve the normal penalty. Would it be possible to reduce the duration of this penalty? Unless you're lowering the dogpile function significantly, that is.

This isnt being caused by the warscript (the ai doesnt ask human players to join in dogpiles). Human players are more than able to watch wars oin neighboring countries and jump in when its in their interests, its the AI players that needed help jumping in when the time was right.
 
I'm not particularly happy with the new war script, for a variety of reasons.

1) The AIs are far too willing to go to war, even with fast friends. In my current game, I'm playing an OCC with the Kuriotates on Monarch. I founded Runes and have been in the religion the whole game, spreading it to Varn and Mahala. Varn eventually summoned Basium, who converted to Runes too. Now, you think this would be enough to keep them from attacking me? No. Keelyn (who founded the Ashen Veil and the Octopus Overlords) declared on me, and I was already at war with Hyborem, and shortly after this, Varn/Basium declared on me, followed by Mahala also declaring war on me. Mahala I can understand, since he's supposed to be an opportunistic bastard, but Varn/Basium should not have declared war on me, their faithful co-religious Good ally from the beginning of the game, while ignoring Keelyn and Hyborem.

The AI ignores dogpile requests if it likes the person he is being asked to attack better than the person asking. In fact depending on your Aggresive AI setting the AI will ignore the request unless the person asking is 5 points better than his attitude towards you.

So I dont think Varn/Basium attacked you because of the warscript unless you were at war with someone Varn/Basium liked much more than you. But that doesn't mean that they didnt decalre war on you for the normal vanilla civ reasons (which is still in effect). Remember the Warscript pushes war in specific situations, but it isn't the only thing that causes war.

2) The dogpile functionality, in general, is bad for the game, IMO. I feel like I'm playing Civ2 again, where the AIs would all gang up on the human player. I didn't play much before patch f, but it seems to me the threshold for declaring war is too low: AIs should go to war only when they think there's something to gain, much like human players. I'd prefer a method of encouraging people to build defenders via a less gamey mechanism, if that's what the dogpile's goal is.

There isn't anything in the warscript that differentiates between human and ai players. A human player often thinks he is being ganged up on just because you dont see other civs being attacked, but its not true. Many players feel the same way about barbarian attacks (that they prefer human targets) because the barbairan player will often pick one enemy player and focus on him, but thats as likely to be a human as an ai player.

3) Despite declaring war more often, the AIs aren't any better at waging it. Their biggest problem is they just don't build enough units, and they don't collect the units they do build into attacking stacks. I've fought with Mahala, Keelyn, Basium/Varn, and Hyborem, and I've yet to see more than a few pillagers enter my lands. In unmodded civ, I usually play with BetterAI, so I'm used to its dagger strategy: a good human can still beat its stacks, but it requires more units and better tactics. While the details of FFH2's combat system are a lot different, it seems to me that the general outlines of the dagger strategy are still applicable: build lots of units, group them in large stacks, and avoid pillaging with all but a small fraction of units. Might it be possible to introduce this to FFH2? (I'm a novice programmer, and I'm not very familiar with C++, so I'm afraid I can't easily answer this question myself.)

Yeah, I agree with this. We have already added a few of blake's ai adjustments to FfH, but we we won't be adding anymore in "Fire". We have a plan for the AI and it will be improved before we are done, but its down the road unfortunatly.
 
In my last game i found myself in a really interesting situation.
I was playing with Aggressive AI and 11 AI as Calabim, i didn't have any good relation with other civs.
Suddenly i got an huge trumpet sound which showed me that in the same turn 6 AI declared war on me.
Was it just a case that all the civs except other 2 remained declared war on me or there is really some mechanics that allow AI to behave "cleverly" as a cohalition?Could it be possible that a single AI managed to bribe other 5 civs to attack me or it is more likely that in the same turn 2-3 AI bribed other 2-3 AI to attack me?
 
once i was playing a game and the sheiam declared war and the dovello and 5 turns later they made peace again so war declarations seem really pointless and they go to war just for the sake that they feel like it
 
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