Final runoff for game difficulty...

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

This poll will be public and is designed to answer some newly raised concerns governing game-play dynamics as it pertains to the philosophy behind a demogame. The two choices are Prince and Emperor. The feeling also being that 9 civs makes the game very easy. Once counterpoint was that an easy game allows for more fun in the political arena with frequent rebellions, etc...However, the opposite counterpoint is that this is above all a Civ game, and without any challenge from the game dynamics, then this might turn into just a political chat community rather than a community also destined to dominate the Civ world.

Choose wisely!

 

[Diamondeye]

Votes are, with my own, EMP: 3 PRI: 2.

 

[Provolution]

I do not like how this poll is presented.

It should clearly present that Prince was by far the most dominant and popular vote in the previous poll (hardly justifying a run-off), as well as presenting the options equally, as Prince is indeed a gameplay challenge as well, and not only a political challenge. If I had posted such a poll, you bet it would be discarded and replaced with a new poll.

But of course, I do not have the political means to do so here, in this metagame system.

 

[DaveShack]

I wouldn't characterize the key to this vote as being between RP and Civ Play.

There are two risks to be managed.

1. If the Civ game is too easy, RP will become boring due to there being no unpredictable events
2. If the civ game is too hard, RP might be overshadowed by the struggle to survive

Risk #1 cannot be fixed once we start. If RP is boring and the game is boring too, then we'll die a slow and ugly death to attrition.

Risk #2, under more careful analysis, is not as much a risk as it seems. Unexpected events and difficult risky game play will make for good RP. Our poets and historians need bolt-out-of-the-blue attacks by other civs, dead units, lost opportunities, and all the other things which come from a difficult life. It's only really a problem if we intentionally play the civ game poorly to the point of no recovery.

 

[DaveShack]

I do not like how this poll is presented.

It should clearly present that Prince was by far the most dominant and popular vote in the previous poll (hardly justifying a run-off), as well as presenting the options equally, as Prince is indeed a gameplay challenge as well, and not only a political challenge. If I had posted such a poll, you bet it would be discarded and replaced with a new poll.

But of course, I do not have the political means to do so here, in this metagame system.

Relax, some people need their before they get around to whacking bad polls.

BTW in the other incident we had discussed the proper way of polling it and the "wrong" kind (posted in defiance of that discussion) was replaced with the previously discussed "right" kind. In this case, the pollster did not have the benefit of prior advice.

 

[Provolution]

This poll still needs rewording etc. This is the most important poll of them all, impacting the difficulty level of the game. One thing is to give individual players "special treatment", due to prehistory and metagame political interests, but a poll like this should be neutral, as it not only affects me, but a whole bunch of players voting 58 % Prince, even the average would have been Prince.

 

[AluminumKnight]

First of all, stop bickering about the poll. Anyone who comes in this thread can clearly see the choices and what they imply. Discussion takes place below, and both sides are allowed to make their cases. Nothing wrong here.

Second, Prince will be challenging enough to allow for some roleplay decisions that wouldn't be the best decisions if someone was playing to simply win the game (for instance, the Mysticracy faction would push for religion ASAP, so we would be more likely to be in support of something such as beelining Monotheism, which most often wouldn't be the best choice). Emporer is way too much. Maybe Monarch would work, but Emporer is out of a lot of players' leagues.

 

[blastoidstalker]

Well, I voted for Monarch the first time, which i feel would be a good compromise between these options.

My main question is simply why there is a run off as in the original poll, Prince got over 50% of the votes and emporer only got 3 votes (8 percent). The tie for second most votes was noble and monarch. I have never heard of a run off taking the first and 4th most popular options?

 

[Provolution]

This poll came as a result out of a "political desire" of a few leading members here. Does not matter if the vast majority (almost 60 %) voted Prince or that even the median of votes would be Prince. This is an odd poll, but very telling about the metagame environment here, so at least good for educational purposes.

 

[DaveShack]

This poll came as a result out of a "political desire" of a few leading members here.

I have no desire to debate the reasons, but at the same time don't like to see untruths lie uncorrected.

This is an incorrect statement. Someone made a good case for more difficulty, and several people commented in the poll that they would have voted differently. A newcomer saw this and decided to poll it to see if the people would change their minds.

This is a good place to restate one of the core Democracy game concepts. Just because a poll says we want to do something at that moment it is not a final decision. There are no final decisions here, other than the obvious "once it is legally played in the game, it can't be taken back".

 

[Provolution]

Obviously, people got different ideas about how the metagame should work - and various degrees of influences to make sure preferred mechanisms are put in place - that is my only comment on the matter.

 

[ravensfire]

This poll came as a result out of a "political desire" of a few leading members here. Does not matter if the vast majority (almost 60 %) voted Prince or that even the median of votes would be Prince. This is an odd poll, but very telling about the metagame environment here, so at least good for educational purposes.

Oh bunk - that's quite obviously incorrect, Provo.

Yup - we had a poll and most people voted Prince. Then more information came to light, and several people asked for a repoll. We've got the time, and the new information did alter the views of several people.

If the majority still prefer Prince, it will still win. This won't be the first time that a decision will be re-polled, and that's a good thing. If new information comes to light that materially affects the decision, it probably should be repolled.

EDIT: Bah - who do people think they are, interrupting me at work when I'm on an important website! And just saw the cross post with DS, saying much the same.
-- Ravensfire

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

1) I apologize for any misunderstanding as a result of my chosen words.
2) I will make a new poll. Hopefully, better worded, so as to remove any unintended bias.
3) My original intention was to illustrate that the original concepts behind game difficulty go beyond merely playing the game, but also impact how enjoyable the experience can be for this demogame. Many of us here want RP, some more and some less. Some of us also want a challenging game situation to not only improve our understanding of the game, but also to enhance the value and enjoyment of the community interaction.
4) Dave, please close this poll. I will make a new poll, and this time more carefully structure how it is worded.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Well, I voted for Monarch the first time, which i feel would be a good compromise between these options.

My main question is simply why there is a run off as in the original poll, Prince got over 50% of the votes and emporer only got 3 votes (8 percent). The tie for second most votes was noble and monarch. I have never heard of a run off taking the first and 4th most popular options?

I believe that it was also my mystake to call this a run-off it's really a new poll, considering now the RP and game dynamic interplay vice, what the original poll said, which was solely game difficulty.

 

[Provolution]

I am sorry I was very direct and blunt about my statements regarding this poll, Kwarriorpoet, you are a great asset to the game, both in the rules arena and the roleplay arena, so my posts regarding this poll was not meant to discourage you as a player, but to make sure that the almost 60 % votes for Prince got a fair treatment. My personal hesitation for this poll would hopefully not limit my argument, as there are a few here that couldn't care less about my, or others, opinions on the matter (not you, but you see in other posts). If your poll was presented as you intend to, no one would question the validity of the poll. However, the entire concept of a run-off requires two equal sized numbers, which the preceding poll did not qualify to.

It seems there is some bad blood in the metagame department, as the exchanges in this thread (not including you Kwarriorpoet, that handled this exemplary), which I hope will go over. My key protest on the matter was due procedure, and now this will be corrected.

 

[dutchfire]

I guess putting final in the thread title was a little overconfident

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

I guess putting final in the thread title was a little overconfident

Live and learn my friend, live and learn...

 

[Provolution]

Yeah, regarding the "Infinite Repolling Policy" that some here represents, I expect to never see the word "Final" ever again on a poll.

 

[DaveShack]

Moderator Action: Closed as requested. Please revote in the new poll.