Military Scaling Discussion

Diomedes_

Warlord
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Messages
118
It seems as though have been intermittent discussions in the past about managing armies in the late game, specifically with reference to how easy it can be to have well over 100 military units by the modern era and the deleterious affects that has on gameplay. Granted I've only played through four games now (emperor/immortal, 4uc, Communitas_79) on the new patch and had barely played in the prior few months, but I have personally noticed three fundamental problems with late-game combat and I think I see a way to kill three birds with one stone.

Problem 1: Gap in Industrial-Modern-Atomic unit strengths is generally too small. This is not only thematically problematic but strategically uninteresting.

Spoiler Explanation :

  • The most important moments of a player's game often happen around when important military techs like Chivalry, Gunpowder, or Rifling research. However, on the other hand very few of the late-game military techs feel nearly as impactful, save for maybe Combustion and Atomic theory. Late-game wars often feel incremental and attritional, while mid-game wars are aggressive and dynamic. In large part this is because the late game power spikes from new techs are simply much smaller than the power spikes in the mid-game.
  • While I'll discuss this more later, a newly-created unit in the late-game is oftentimes barely more powerful than a unit from the prior tier with the extra promotions it will likely have from prior combat. This means that in certain situations tech increases are practically meaningless even though they required huge investment.
  • The gap in strength between military technology of different eras is HUGE irl. Prussia v. Austria in 1866, Cortez v. Aztecs in 1519, Boers v. British in 1880, United States v. the Third World since 1945, etc... While some notable exceptions to this rule are manifested in UUs (like the Zulu Impi), in general I think that some Industrial and most Modern and Atomic units do not scale hard enough.
    • That a Musketman would dominate a Crossbowman or a breech-loader armed Fusilier would dominate a shot-and-pike Tercio makes logical and historical sense. That Lancers and Fusiliers don't get stomped by Landships, that Triplanes can still intercept Heavy Bombers and even stealth bombers, and that Machine guns don't decimate Fusiliers and Lancers does not make sense.

Problem 2: Upgrading units is generally quite easy. This limits strategy and also introduces balance concerns that have led to some late game units being less interesting than they otherwise could be.

Spoiler explanation :

  • Unless you are very cash strapped, it is quite easy to have all of your important units upgraded within 5-10 turns of researching their upgraded version, meaning that there is little strategic decision making that goes into upgrading units. Additionally, creating and upgrading a unit from the prior tier almost always costs around the same gold/production as producing a new, current-tier unit. Thus it almost always makes sense to upgrade rather than train as your upgraded units will be available sooner and have better promotions. Even if we didn't decide to make units scale harder, I still think making train+upgrade cost more than just training/purchasing would be a good change.
  • Upgrading units should be expensive and it should be common to see heterogeneous armies. Not only is this how military technology generally functions in the real world, like how the Union army in the US civil war used gatling guns, repeating cartridge rifles, muzzle-loading rifles, rifled and unrifled muzzle-loading and breech-loading cannons, wooden warships, ironclads, horses and trains, etc... all at the same time, but it adds more strategic thinking to the game.
  • Especially in the late game when unit upgrades essentially create entirely new units, like jumping from Lancer to Landship, Cavalry to Light Tank to Helicopter Gunship, Musketman to Gatling Gun, etc. it is odd how easy it is to make those upgrades. In the current game unit tier strength and upgrade costs are in this odd symbiotic relationship where either because upgrades are so cheap tier strength increases are small, or because tier strength increases are small upgrades must be cheap. I think increasing both will make the game more interesting while preserving balance. After all, if a Landship were to properly dominate a Lancer, we wouldn't want it to be easy to upgrade every single one of our Lancers once we get oil on-line. Instead, if we made upgrades actually expensive and difficult for all units, we could make those special units even more interesting because we could lean more into their unique capabilities to buff them to the required level instead of just mere CS buffs.


Problem 3: Late-Game unit counts are incredibly high and make late-game wars far less enjoyable and interesting.

Spoiler Explanation :

  • While it is very thrilling to manage multi-front wars, I think we all agree that there are simply too many units in the late game. Oftentimes on a main front you'll have units three, four, even five rows deep depending on the terrain, and much of you micro is put not towards directing your units against your opponents, but on managing your rear lines and cycling through your troops effectively. In short, that map simply cannot handle how many units armies will have and it makes combat incredibly undynamic and uninteresting as compared to mid-game combat.
  • Late game wars are grind fests that reward not making mistakes more than making clever plays, which for a game designed around playing against AIs is the opposite of what I think most people would want.


My solution:
tl;dr: increase most post-industrial unit upgrades to a 30-50% CS increases depending on context while keeping total army CS and production costs constant by increasing unit production costs, supply costs of armor/naval units, strategic resource demands of armor/naval/air units, and gold maintenance costs. Make the total cost of training a unit and upgrading it to the next tier more than just training that next tier unit outright.
Spoiler Explanation :

  • In my ideal VP, armies would essentially stop growing in total size by mid-Industrial. I think my ideal upper limit for a combined-arms military for a normal sized civ (i.e. 8-12 cities) in the post-industrial phase of the game--from a gameplay perspective--would be ~75 total units, e.g. a two-theatre military would have ~8 infantry, ~8 Tanks/Artillery/MGs/Light Tanks, ~8 aircraft, and ~8 ships in each theatre with ~10 infantry/MGs staying back as garrisons and guards.
  • This means increasing the CS of all post-industrial units, decreasing unit supply somewhat while making some units cost more than 1 supply, and increasing the strategic resource demands of some units.
  • While I think the gap between Tercio-Fusilier or Knight-Lancer is slightly too large (which is why I used to play EE, but haven't in my most recent games to get a good sense of current VP), it is closer to the ideal than the miniscule gaps between Fusilier-Rifleman-Infantry. Tercio-Fusilier or Knight-Lancer is a ~50% increase in CS, while Fusilier to Rifleman is only ~30% I believe and Rifleman-Infantry just 20%. I think somewhere around 40% is the ideal jump in power for two reasons:
    • 1: it creates a strategic lynchpin, i.e. a point in time where technological superiority makes a massive difference and thus must be strategized around. A simple 20% increase in strength is barely more than an extra promotion. Aggressive play should only be strong when a player is making significant strategic sacrifices, such as B-lining bottom-tree techs, and thus the incentives to take those risks, e.g. a new unit tier, should be meaningful. Think about how much you are rewarded when being aggressive in the mid-game for ignoring the awesome bonuses of top-tree techs to B-line Knights, Swordsmen, Cannons, Musketmen, and Fusiliers. Currently, it oftentimes makes more sense for an aggressive player in post-Industrial to go for top-tree techs that boost production as the production bonuses outweigh increases to unit strength, meaning that the empire-building decisions an aggressive player makes look barely different from those a defensive or peaceful player makes. This makes post-industrial play generally more bland than Medieval and Renaissance play (which I think most players would agree is the best part of the game).
    • 2: It ensures that newly-created units are almost always stronger than existing units from the prior tier. Prior tier units with even just 2 extra promotions can be nearly as strong as current tier units. This seems wrong to me.
  • There should be a much more meaningful difference between armor units and infantry units. Armor units should be more expensive, more powerful, and harder to maintain (i.e. take more than 1 supply slot and use more than 1 copy of a strategic), as it should be impossible to field a nearly all-armor army. Armor units should support infantry, instead of simply being a stronger version of infantry. This might entail more than just making them stronger and more expensive: I think AOE damage to units ending their turn next to tanks and on kills would be a good way to reinforce the idea that Tanks are wedge-units that create gaps in enemy lines that are then attacked by infantry.
  • Bomber units should generally be much stronger, but interception should deal much more damage. Currently, it feels like the gap in strength of bomber units in worst-case and best-case scenarios is pretty small. Even against obsolete and unguarded targets, bombers still take some damage while not dealing all that much given their cost, while against well-guarded targets interception is often a risk worth taking. As such there is essentially no such thing in VP as air superiority, either on offense or on defense.


I'm interested to see if other people agree with my assessment, and even more interested in hearing thoughts and counter-arguments from people who feel differently. Obviously what I'm talking about is a massive, fundamental part of VP late game, so I don't expect equally massive change anytime soon, but I just thought it would be good to try to get the ball rolling and see what other people feel.
 
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I dont think we need to buff late game units, but I think upgrade cost and maintenance cost could be heavily increased.
At the turn of the century many nations still used “fusiliers” while richer nations involved in ww1 moved on to “riflemen” during the war. During ww2 poorer nations used “riflemen” and leading nations had “infantry”.
Having a huge standing army constantly equipped with the latest equipment should be very expensive, but units that are obsolete by an era shouldn’t be completely useless.
It should essentially be a large cost for a slight advantage.
 
I don't agree with your number 1, in fact I consider it the opposite. Earlier game wars taking even one city is often a long hard siege. But late game with tanks and planes and rocket artillery I can blow through a line of troops, and take the city in a handful of turns. I can take multiple cities much much quicker than I do earlier in the game.

In terms of the rest, sure if you want to lower unit supplies late game there are some ways to do that, and upgrade costs if they are high enough means you would only be able to afford to upgrade the "really strong promoted units". Whether that is good for the game is debatable but I think you could do it.
 
@Diomedes_ cool ideas! Will you make congress proposals with it? Multiple smaller ones would be easier to dighest and pass on, probably.
 
I don't agree with your number 1, in fact I consider it the opposite. Earlier game wars taking even one city is often a long hard siege. But late game with tanks and planes and rocket artillery I can blow through a line of troops, and take the city in a handful of turns. I can take multiple cities much much quicker than I do earlier in the game.
I think that that's a fair point, but your depiction of late-game combat really only applies to situations where there's a huge tech disparity. Like in two of my most recent games I eventually decided to conquer troublesome vassals and was fighting their Riflemen and Landships with GDRs and Rocket Artillery, and it went exactly as you said. Granted, I think it's fair to say that in modern and information era it is far more common to be more than one tech level ahead of your opponent than it is in Medieval or Renaissance, so maybe I'm to some extent looking at this "problem" all wrong.

As for early and mid-game wars being slower-paced than I say, I think in some ways we are both right. I think you're correct to say that, when it comes to the individual actions of units, Classical, Medieval, and Renaissance combat is generally of a similar or even slower pace; however due to the fewer units under your control and the increased impact of taking even just one city at that point in the game, the combat *feels* significantly more dynamic as each one of your actions has a much larger impact on the course of the next few turns and the game as a whole. In other words, while in a equal-tech scenario conquering a city in the Modern era may take a 7 turns instead of the 20 turns it takes in Medieval, the total number of unit actions in the Modern Era war is almost always higher, sometimes massively so.

@Diomedes_ cool ideas! Will you make congress proposals with it? Multiple smaller ones would be easier to digest and pass on, probably.
I'm not sure, as I forgot that ENW is finally being implemented into the newest version and most of my ideas would be pretty massive changes. I would be interested in talking with some experienced modders/players about reforming armor units and air combat. Even if people don't feel the same way I do about late-game war bloat, I think we can all agree that armor units are not sufficiently different enough from infantry units to the detriment of late game combat. I'd be interested in making a proposal that increases their cost and strength, and gives them some kind of AoE damage promotion. I'd also be interested in looking more into air combat as I feel like it could be improved massively but don't know exactly what I think should change.
 
I have played only warmonger in VP and I absolutely agree.

Late game armies are too large and microing them around the map/cycling in wars is a huge pain.

I never have to make interesting choices regarding unit upgrades as I always am swimming in money by mid-game.

I frequently find by industrial that AI units in the tier behind me are still very strong, which feels unrewarding versus when you stomp someone who's on comp bows when you have xbows. It also means that fighting a technologically advanced opponent isn't that interesting as you basically have unit parity and on defense you have plenty of flexibility to cycle units before they die.

My biggest agreement is with tanks however. The minute I get landships my army basically becomes landships+artillery+eventually planes as nothing else can keep up and landships (then tanks) absolutely stomp everything so fast my ranged units struggle to get into position before everything dies.
 
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In the last congress the late-game scaling of unit maintenance costs was reduced because we changed other parts of the calculation and wanted to make sure unit maintenance doesn't scale too strongly (link to proposal). It would be easy to change the scaling factor back to the previous value. There's also another scaling factor that's used for exponential scaling (meaning that unit maintenance is increased in particular for large armies) which could also be changed.
 
Whereas I cannot say managing huge armies in the late game are fun, but I want to address that scientific civ is already has HUGE advantage. They already have 2-3 wonders which boost their scientific advancement to the sky further more, and having them to have army you can't deal anymore means you skip latter 50-70 turns and concede earlier. I usually play 6-7 diff. on standard-huge maps, semi-warmonger. Once in a while I have strong civ directly in the opposite corner of the map with who is hard to deal with by military. Let them have super armies consisting of super soldiers is too much.
 
For problem 3, I definitely recommend balparmak's reduced unit supply mod. In my opinion, it gets the unit supply almost perfect.
 
Whereas I cannot say managing huge armies in the late game are fun, but I want to address that scientific civ is already has HUGE advantage. They already have 2-3 wonders which boost their scientific advancement to the sky further more, and having them to have army you can't deal anymore means you skip latter 50-70 turns and concede earlier. I usually play 6-7 diff. on standard-huge maps, semi-warmonger. Once in a while I have strong civ directly in the opposite corner of the map with who is hard to deal with by military. Let them have super armies consisting of super soldiers is too much.
This is a really good point.
 
It seems as though have been intermittent discussions in the past about managing armies in the late game, specifically with reference to how easy it can be to have well over 100 military units by the modern era and the deleterious affects that has on gameplay. Granted I've only played through four games now (emperor/immortal, 4uc, Communitas_79) on the new patch and had barely played in the prior few months, but I have personally noticed three fundamental problems with late-game combat and I think I see a way to kill three birds with one stone.

Problem 1: Gap in Industrial-Modern-Atomic unit strengths is generally too small. This is not only thematically problematic but strategically uninteresting.

Spoiler Explanation :

  • The most important moments of a player's game often happen around when important military techs like Chivalry, Gunpowder, or Rifling research. However, on the other hand very few of the late-game military techs feel nearly as impactful, save for maybe Combustion and Atomic theory. Late-game wars often feel incremental and attritional, while mid-game wars are aggressive and dynamic. In large part this is because the late game power spikes from new techs are simply much smaller than the power spikes in the mid-game.
  • While I'll discuss this more later, a newly-created unit in the late-game is oftentimes barely more powerful than a unit from the prior tier with the extra promotions it will likely have from prior combat. This means that in certain situations tech increases are practically meaningless even though they required huge investment.
  • The gap in strength between military technology of different eras is HUGE irl. Prussia v. Austria in 1866, Cortez v. Aztecs in 1519, Boers v. British in 1880, United States v. the Third World since 1945, etc... While some notable exceptions to this rule are manifested in UUs (like the Zulu Impi), in general I think that some Industrial and most Modern and Atomic units do not scale hard enough.
    • That a Musketman would dominate a Crossbowman or a breech-loader armed Fusilier would dominate a shot-and-pike Tercio makes logical and historical sense. That Lancers and Fusiliers don't get stomped by Landships, that Triplanes can still intercept Heavy Bombers and even stealth bombers, and that Machine guns don't decimate Fusiliers and Lancers does not make sense.

Problem 2: Upgrading units is generally quite easy. This limits strategy and also introduces balance concerns that have led to some late game units being less interesting than they otherwise could be.

Spoiler explanation :

  • Unless you are very cash strapped, it is quite easy to have all of your important units upgraded within 5-10 turns of researching their upgraded version, meaning that there is little strategic decision making that goes into upgrading units. Additionally, creating and upgrading a unit from the prior tier almost always costs around the same gold/production as producing a new, current-tier unit. Thus it almost always makes sense to upgrade rather than train as your upgraded units will be available sooner and have better promotions. Even if we didn't decide to make units scale harder, I still think making train+upgrade cost more than just training/purchasing would be a good change.
  • Upgrading units should be expensive and it should be common to see heterogeneous armies. Not only is this how military technology generally functions in the real world, like how the Union army in the US civil war used gatling guns, repeating cartridge rifles, muzzle-loading rifles, rifled and unrifled muzzle-loading and breech-loading cannons, wooden warships, ironclads, horses and trains, etc... all at the same time, but it adds more strategic thinking to the game.
  • Especially in the late game when unit upgrades essentially create entirely new units, like jumping from Lancer to Landship, Cavalry to Light Tank to Helicopter Gunship, Musketman to Gatling Gun, etc. it is odd how easy it is to make those upgrades. In the current game unit tier strength and upgrade costs are in this odd symbiotic relationship where either because upgrades are so cheap tier strength increases are small, or because tier strength increases are small upgrades must be cheap. I think increasing both will make the game more interesting while preserving balance. After all, if a Landship were to properly dominate a Lancer, we wouldn't want it to be easy to upgrade every single one of our Lancers once we get oil on-line. Instead, if we made upgrades actually expensive and difficult for all units, we could make those special units even more interesting because we could lean more into their unique capabilities to buff them to the required level instead of just mere CS buffs.


Problem 3: Late-Game unit counts are incredibly high and make late-game wars far less enjoyable and interesting.

Spoiler Explanation :

  • While it is very thrilling to manage multi-front wars, I think we all agree that there are simply too many units in the late game. Oftentimes on a main front you'll have units three, four, even five rows deep depending on the terrain, and much of you micro is put not towards directing your units against your opponents, but on managing your rear lines and cycling through your troops effectively. In short, that map simply cannot handle how many units armies will have and it makes combat incredibly undynamic and uninteresting as compared to mid-game combat.
  • Late game wars are grind fests that reward not making mistakes more than making clever plays, which for a game designed around playing against AIs is the opposite of what I think most people would want.


My solution:
tl;dr: increase most post-industrial unit upgrades to a 30-50% CS increases depending on context while keeping total army CS and production costs constant by increasing unit production costs, supply costs of armor/naval units, strategic resource demands of armor/naval/air units, and gold maintenance costs. Make the total cost of training a unit and upgrading it to the next tier more than just training that next tier unit outright.
Spoiler Explanation :

  • In my ideal VP, armies would essentially stop growing in total size by mid-Industrial. I think my ideal upper limit for a combined-arms military for a normal sized civ (i.e. 8-12 cities) in the post-industrial phase of the game--from a gameplay perspective--would be ~75 total units, e.g. a two-theatre military would have ~8 infantry, ~8 Tanks/Artillery/MGs/Light Tanks, ~8 aircraft, and ~8 ships in each theatre with ~10 infantry/MGs staying back as garrisons and guards.
  • This means increasing the CS of all post-industrial units, decreasing unit supply somewhat while making some units cost more than 1 supply, and increasing the strategic resource demands of some units.
  • While I think the gap between Tercio-Fusilier or Knight-Lancer is slightly too large (which is why I used to play EE, but haven't in my most recent games to get a good sense of current VP), it is closer to the ideal than the miniscule gaps between Fusilier-Rifleman-Infantry. Tercio-Fusilier or Knight-Lancer is a ~50% increase in CS, while Fusilier to Rifleman is only ~30% I believe and Rifleman-Infantry just 20%. I think somewhere around 40% is the ideal jump in power for two reasons:
    • 1: it creates a strategic lynchpin, i.e. a point in time where technological superiority makes a massive difference and thus must be strategized around. A simple 20% increase in strength is barely more than an extra promotion. Aggressive play should only be strong when a player is making significant strategic sacrifices, such as B-lining bottom-tree techs, and thus the incentives to take those risks, e.g. a new unit tier, should be meaningful. Think about how much you are rewarded when being aggressive in the mid-game for ignoring the awesome bonuses of top-tree techs to B-line Knights, Swordsmen, Cannons, Musketmen, and Fusiliers. Currently, it oftentimes makes more sense for an aggressive player in post-Industrial to go for top-tree techs that boost production as the production bonuses outweigh increases to unit strength, meaning that the empire-building decisions an aggressive player makes look barely different from those a defensive or peaceful player makes. This makes post-industrial play generally more bland than Medieval and Renaissance play (which I think most players would agree is the best part of the game).
    • 2: It ensures that newly-created units are almost always stronger than existing units from the prior tier. Prior tier units with even just 2 extra promotions can be nearly as strong as current tier units. This seems wrong to me.
  • There should be a much more meaningful difference between armor units and infantry units. Armor units should be more expensive, more powerful, and harder to maintain (i.e. take more than 1 supply slot and use more than 1 copy of a strategic), as it should be impossible to field a nearly all-armor army. Armor units should support infantry, instead of simply being a stronger version of infantry. This might entail more than just making them stronger and more expensive: I think AOE damage to units ending their turn next to tanks and on kills would be a good way to reinforce the idea that Tanks are wedge-units that create gaps in enemy lines that are then attacked by infantry.
  • Bomber units should generally be much stronger, but interception should deal much more damage. Currently, it feels like the gap in strength of bomber units in worst-case and best-case scenarios is pretty small. Even against obsolete and unguarded targets, bombers still take some damage while not dealing all that much given their cost, while against well-guarded targets interception is often a risk worth taking. As such there is essentially no such thing in VP as air superiority, either on offense or on defense.


I'm interested to see if other people agree with my assessment, and even more interested in hearing thoughts and counter-arguments from people who feel differently. Obviously what I'm talking about is a massive, fundamental part of VP late game, so I don't expect equally massive change anytime soon, but I just thought it would be good to try to get the ball rolling and see what other people feel.
Problem 1: My view is that unit scaling is fine. You unlock many useful unts late game, that not only bring more raw power. Take artillery with more range, rocket arty with 3 movement. Landships with armor plating and no city penalty. Heavy bombers with range to make them really useful. Air unit cap by several means. Density of firepower is as important as raw power. Battleships with indirect fire. Also, if you give more raw power to unit upgrades, players who go for a peaceful victory will have to go bottom of the tech tree to keep a useful army and not get stomped. It would boost domotination games compared to other types of victory.

Problen 3: I basically agree that wars become tedious. I think it is less a problem of unlocking more supply from tech, but that in a warmonger game , you simply have more cities later. Personally, I actually find repeated defensive wars in a non-domination game more tedious than domination wars with many units. At least you conquer stuff and get closer to victory. But defensive wars in a peaceful game are just a distraction from my cultural or diplo efforts.
 
It seems as though have been intermittent discussions in the past about managing armies in the late game, specifically with reference to how easy it can be to have well over 100 military units by the modern era and the deleterious affects that has on gameplay. Granted I've only played through four games now (emperor/immortal, 4uc, Communitas_79) on the new patch and had barely played in the prior few months, but I have personally noticed three fundamental problems with late-game combat and I think I see a way to kill three birds with one stone.

Problem 1: Gap in Industrial-Modern-Atomic unit strengths is generally too small. This is not only thematically problematic but strategically uninteresting.

Spoiler Explanation :

  • The most important moments of a player's game often happen around when important military techs like Chivalry, Gunpowder, or Rifling research. However, on the other hand very few of the late-game military techs feel nearly as impactful, save for maybe Combustion and Atomic theory. Late-game wars often feel incremental and attritional, while mid-game wars are aggressive and dynamic. In large part this is because the late game power spikes from new techs are simply much smaller than the power spikes in the mid-game.
  • While I'll discuss this more later, a newly-created unit in the late-game is oftentimes barely more powerful than a unit from the prior tier with the extra promotions it will likely have from prior combat. This means that in certain situations tech increases are practically meaningless even though they required huge investment.
  • The gap in strength between military technology of different eras is HUGE irl. Prussia v. Austria in 1866, Cortez v. Aztecs in 1519, Boers v. British in 1880, United States v. the Third World since 1945, etc... While some notable exceptions to this rule are manifested in UUs (like the Zulu Impi), in general I think that some Industrial and most Modern and Atomic units do not scale hard enough.
    • That a Musketman would dominate a Crossbowman or a breech-loader armed Fusilier would dominate a shot-and-pike Tercio makes logical and historical sense. That Lancers and Fusiliers don't get stomped by Landships, that Triplanes can still intercept Heavy Bombers and even stealth bombers, and that Machine guns don't decimate Fusiliers and Lancers does not make sense.

Problem 2: Upgrading units is generally quite easy. This limits strategy and also introduces balance concerns that have led to some late game units being less interesting than they otherwise could be.

Spoiler explanation :

  • Unless you are very cash strapped, it is quite easy to have all of your important units upgraded within 5-10 turns of researching their upgraded version, meaning that there is little strategic decision making that goes into upgrading units. Additionally, creating and upgrading a unit from the prior tier almost always costs around the same gold/production as producing a new, current-tier unit. Thus it almost always makes sense to upgrade rather than train as your upgraded units will be available sooner and have better promotions. Even if we didn't decide to make units scale harder, I still think making train+upgrade cost more than just training/purchasing would be a good change.
  • Upgrading units should be expensive and it should be common to see heterogeneous armies. Not only is this how military technology generally functions in the real world, like how the Union army in the US civil war used gatling guns, repeating cartridge rifles, muzzle-loading rifles, rifled and unrifled muzzle-loading and breech-loading cannons, wooden warships, ironclads, horses and trains, etc... all at the same time, but it adds more strategic thinking to the game.
  • Especially in the late game when unit upgrades essentially create entirely new units, like jumping from Lancer to Landship, Cavalry to Light Tank to Helicopter Gunship, Musketman to Gatling Gun, etc. it is odd how easy it is to make those upgrades. In the current game unit tier strength and upgrade costs are in this odd symbiotic relationship where either because upgrades are so cheap tier strength increases are small, or because tier strength increases are small upgrades must be cheap. I think increasing both will make the game more interesting while preserving balance. After all, if a Landship were to properly dominate a Lancer, we wouldn't want it to be easy to upgrade every single one of our Lancers once we get oil on-line. Instead, if we made upgrades actually expensive and difficult for all units, we could make those special units even more interesting because we could lean more into their unique capabilities to buff them to the required level instead of just mere CS buffs.


Problem 3: Late-Game unit counts are incredibly high and make late-game wars far less enjoyable and interesting.

Spoiler Explanation :

  • While it is very thrilling to manage multi-front wars, I think we all agree that there are simply too many units in the late game. Oftentimes on a main front you'll have units three, four, even five rows deep depending on the terrain, and much of you micro is put not towards directing your units against your opponents, but on managing your rear lines and cycling through your troops effectively. In short, that map simply cannot handle how many units armies will have and it makes combat incredibly undynamic and uninteresting as compared to mid-game combat.
  • Late game wars are grind fests that reward not making mistakes more than making clever plays, which for a game designed around playing against AIs is the opposite of what I think most people would want.


My solution:
tl;dr: increase most post-industrial unit upgrades to a 30-50% CS increases depending on context while keeping total army CS and production costs constant by increasing unit production costs, supply costs of armor/naval units, strategic resource demands of armor/naval/air units, and gold maintenance costs. Make the total cost of training a unit and upgrading it to the next tier more than just training that next tier unit outright.
Spoiler Explanation :

  • In my ideal VP, armies would essentially stop growing in total size by mid-Industrial. I think my ideal upper limit for a combined-arms military for a normal sized civ (i.e. 8-12 cities) in the post-industrial phase of the game--from a gameplay perspective--would be ~75 total units, e.g. a two-theatre military would have ~8 infantry, ~8 Tanks/Artillery/MGs/Light Tanks, ~8 aircraft, and ~8 ships in each theatre with ~10 infantry/MGs staying back as garrisons and guards.
  • This means increasing the CS of all post-industrial units, decreasing unit supply somewhat while making some units cost more than 1 supply, and increasing the strategic resource demands of some units.
  • While I think the gap between Tercio-Fusilier or Knight-Lancer is slightly too large (which is why I used to play EE, but haven't in my most recent games to get a good sense of current VP), it is closer to the ideal than the miniscule gaps between Fusilier-Rifleman-Infantry. Tercio-Fusilier or Knight-Lancer is a ~50% increase in CS, while Fusilier to Rifleman is only ~30% I believe and Rifleman-Infantry just 20%. I think somewhere around 40% is the ideal jump in power for two reasons:
    • 1: it creates a strategic lynchpin, i.e. a point in time where technological superiority makes a massive difference and thus must be strategized around. A simple 20% increase in strength is barely more than an extra promotion. Aggressive play should only be strong when a player is making significant strategic sacrifices, such as B-lining bottom-tree techs, and thus the incentives to take those risks, e.g. a new unit tier, should be meaningful. Think about how much you are rewarded when being aggressive in the mid-game for ignoring the awesome bonuses of top-tree techs to B-line Knights, Swordsmen, Cannons, Musketmen, and Fusiliers. Currently, it oftentimes makes more sense for an aggressive player in post-Industrial to go for top-tree techs that boost production as the production bonuses outweigh increases to unit strength, meaning that the empire-building decisions an aggressive player makes look barely different from those a defensive or peaceful player makes. This makes post-industrial play generally more bland than Medieval and Renaissance play (which I think most players would agree is the best part of the game).
    • 2: It ensures that newly-created units are almost always stronger than existing units from the prior tier. Prior tier units with even just 2 extra promotions can be nearly as strong as current tier units. This seems wrong to me.
  • There should be a much more meaningful difference between armor units and infantry units. Armor units should be more expensive, more powerful, and harder to maintain (i.e. take more than 1 supply slot and use more than 1 copy of a strategic), as it should be impossible to field a nearly all-armor army. Armor units should support infantry, instead of simply being a stronger version of infantry. This might entail more than just making them stronger and more expensive: I think AOE damage to units ending their turn next to tanks and on kills would be a good way to reinforce the idea that Tanks are wedge-units that create gaps in enemy lines that are then attacked by infantry.
  • Bomber units should generally be much stronger, but interception should deal much more damage. Currently, it feels like the gap in strength of bomber units in worst-case and best-case scenarios is pretty small. Even against obsolete and unguarded targets, bombers still take some damage while not dealing all that much given their cost, while against well-guarded targets interception is often a risk worth taking. As such there is essentially no such thing in VP as air superiority, either on offense or on defense.


I'm interested to see if other people agree with my assessment, and even more interested in hearing thoughts and counter-arguments from people who feel differently. Obviously what I'm talking about is a massive, fundamental part of VP late game, so I don't expect equally massive change anytime soon, but I just thought it would be good to try to get the ball rolling and see what other people feel.

Late game high numbers of units are VERY historically CORRECT - USSR had about 11 million army after WW2! And read about West-81 USSR military training demonstration! Number of units is limited ONLY by their cost - how much weapons, bullets, food, etc. = money your economy can provide, you can have as many soldiers as your economy can equip & feed! And the more units, the bigger map & more proportional - the more enjoyable & interesting the game becomes, more strategist skills required, and more realistic! The only reason you might NOT like it - if you build too few units & lose to more numerous opponent:) But that is NOT a reason to change game to less realistic - the more units, land scales, the more complexity - the more interesting! If it is too hard for you to think that big - you can just select smaller map, but let the large scale options to exist for those who enjoy it! It is easy to scale down, but difficult & very interesting to scale up!
I think most problems you mentioned are NOT that strong really. But​
I would argue about some units strength, and suggest to introduce one more mounted horse cavalry unit – Lancers, early light cavalry, recon cavalry, armed with spears / lances / pikes but no heavy armor which differs them from knights. Lancers should have 6 strength and +100% against siege weapons because light cavalry can gallop very fast, faster then knights, thus with less losses pass distance from max shoot range till melee, more of them survive till melee & defeat siege weapons including cannons & artillery easier. Lancers require “Horseback Riding” and “Hunting” techs, and “horses” resource – no metal required. Lancers and Horse Archers when those tech researched, make chariots obsolete (not in parallel but completely obsolete) – that is why Native Americans, Africans, and most civs except most ancient, never ever used chariots, but only horseback riding – chariots were very short period of civilizations, Persians even did NOT use chariots at all but had Immortals riding horse backs, because it is much more maneuverable and efficient (disadvantage of immortal is lack of stirrups compared to lancers), and chariot production should cost almost same hammers as Lancers and a bit more expensive horse archers, maybe even more than each – you have to build whole cart and spears for a chariot, but only a spear / bow & stirrups for Lancers and Horse Archers. Carthagian Numidian Cavalry replace Lancers with additional +50% against melee units, while Mongolian Keshiks replace knights – Mongols never had heavy plate armor due to scarcity of metals, but Keshiks were extremely efficient, like knights – horse archers & lancers are separate units for Mongols. Horse archers were very powerful units very widely used by all civs especially nomadic, no unit should ever replace this most common globally ubiquitous units, from Persians and Mongolians to Native Americans and Africans… Horse Archers used hit-and-run tactics against melee units, evading melee combat because horses are much faster then footmen, thus horse archers must have 7 basic strength and +50% attack against melee units – only attack, as they don’t have this advantage when they are stuck in a city defense, forest, or other tight place. Mounted units are strongest in open fields, cavalry should be king of fields and infantry – king of trenches. Numidian Cavalry are lancers with extra +50% against melee units, and normal +100% against siege weapons. Horse archers are the most Mongolian units ever, Keshiks are heavy cavalry equal to knights, but much cheaper to produce. Knights might be available for production simultaneously with lancers & horse archers, because knights are very strong but very expensive to manufacture, while lancers & horse archers are cheap cavalry, that historically were used simultaneously a lot – knights were nobles while light cavalry were cheaper recruits. War elephants were much stronger units, normally carrying more than one person onboard – they had usually towers on their back with at least 1 spearman and 2 archers in the tower on top of their back, and they must have at least 9 or more basic strength. How a macemen regiment can beat a war elephant regiment, even if there are 2000 macemen and 100 elephants in a regiment? Elephants crushed may times outnumbering Roman Praetorian regiments. Macemen should have 7 strength, its only advantage against a horse archer is in defense in city, forest, hills, or other terrains where macemen don’t have to run long distance under rain of arrows. Elephants must be much stronger then macemen – each War Elephant has many people in tower on top of its back, with several archers and one or more spearmen, long tusks, it is NOT easy to hit an elephant, and even once you hit it – elephant is not going to fall because of just one hit with a mace, it has much stronger bones then a human... Knight should have 11 strength, Cuirassier 13 strength, Cavalry 16 strength. Either Lancers 6 strength + 100% against siege weapons (Lancer is stronger against a machine gun or cannon because it runs faster then heavy knight, siege weapons are awfully mortal at significant distance, but once cavalry reached melee – Lancers & other cavalry can kill siege weapons almost punishlessly in a melee) or Horse Archers 7 strength or both make chariots obsolete not produceable anymore, but Knights might replace only Lancers (or, Lancers still replace Knights with Guilds if no Iron available, or lancers & horse archers & knights produceable simultaneously)) while still allow to produce Horse Archers in parallel, as Horse Arches are very much cheaper to produce then knights, but almost same attack efficiency against melee units – knights only way outperform horse archers against archery units & mounted units. Also, almost any mounted unit from chariots to knights have pike as main primary weapon because who strikes first wins, & sword as secondary after losing a spear stuck in enemy body.
Knights become less efficient from arrows – longbow arrow carry a lot of momentum, and can break bones even if they did not penetrate the plate armor! Crossbowmen were like medieval snipers and should have +50% city attack +1 first strike, while longbowmen should have +25% against crossbowmen +2 first strikes. Melee units were cheap but weak, mounted units were strong but expensive, this lead to the emergence of the nobility class & feudalism formation – the whole purpose of feudalism was to make cavalry pay for their own maintenance.
Also, I would argue about siege weapons concepts – siege weapons are the more efficient the more concentrated the enemy is, but if enemy dissipated in an open field on widest surface surrounding a single canon regiment caught without infantry or cavalry to protect it in open field, or catapults even less efficient – in open field, lets say 100 canons surrounded by 2000 macemen or musketmen, then one shot of canon even with grapes kills 1 enemy, in best case 2-3, compared to dozens killed and wounded from a canon shot in a dense crowd in a city, which is more collapsing buildings also kill and injure or temporarily capture people under ruins even without cannonballs hitting them directly – so, cannons and other siege weapons are extremely efficient when storming a crowded city with very high density of enemy warriors, but very low efficiency in open field if caught by enemy infantry or cavalry without support of your infantry or cavalry – thus, siege weapons must be escorted, and very efficient only in siege, but very weak in other situations. Thus, catapult should have 4 strength +100% on city attack and available with construction because it needs both mathematics and complex construction; trebuchet 3 strength +250% city attack, canon 8 strength +50% city attack +50% against war elephants +25% against knights, artillery 15 strength +50% city attack, mobile artillery 22 strength + 25% city attack.
Musketmen can have 9 strength but +50% against war elephants who have 10 strength.
Also, I see completely misunderstood concepts of modern fleets: missile cruiser has way much wider range then any battleship and can sink a battleship way before it comes close enough to even fire a shot – that is why modern fleets stopped producing battleships, because rockets have way way beyond range compared to barrel artillery! Thus, missile cruiser should have 4 first strikes! Missile cruiser is weaker then WW2 battleship in near combat – if battleship pops out of nowhere near missile cruiser, for example gets out of well defended port or cave right in front of missile cruiser – battleship would probably win. So, missile cruiser might have 38 or 36 strength compared to 40 for battleship. But in reality, missile cruiser will sink a battleship with rockets way before battleship comes close enough to make even a single shot! That is why 4 first strikes – modern naval warfare is mainly about the range, as we can beat any armor – it became more efficient to produce many lighter ships that just carry rockets, then big ships with thick walls, as rockets will sink them anyhow! Missile cruiser will basically sink most WW2 & earlier ships almost flawlessly by 4 first strikes. Only submarines should be immune to first strikes, but no other unit on land, sea, air, etc.! Also, WW2 Submarine can NOT carry nukes – it is too small and there were no nukes at that time, 24 strength earliest Submarine should carry only 1 cargo space of scouts, explorers, missionaries, spies, great people, or maybe on footmen unit without machines (melee, archery, or gunpowder except mechanized infantry – no tank or artillery as they won’t fit it, but USSR transported a lot infantry in WW2 submarines into Sevastopol during its defense) – that is all it can carry, it is like underwater caravel! But WW3 30 strength Attack Submarines – they do carry nukes only, 3 cargo spaces – the authors confused old and modern submarines cargo functions completely, need to do cargo for submarine types vice versa to correct! And also, the Ironclad should look NOT like those ugly malfunctional weak first ever ironclads, but like the famous symbol of the Great October Revolution, the Aurora Cruiser – that is how most steam ships ever produced looked, during WW1! And Drednout type WW2 oil based ships became MUCH stronger because instead of many small canons, they used a few long barrel long range huge caliper cannons with cumulative warheads, which sank enemy ships far away before they even came close enough to fire a shot from their let it be numerous but shorter range canons – modern naval warfare is mainly about maximizing the range, it is about whose missiles reach enemy first, who has longest range wins!
 

Late game high numbers of units are VERY historically CORRECT - USSR had about 11 million army after WW2! And read about West-81 USSR military training demonstration! Number of units is limited ONLY by their cost - how much weapons, bullets, food, etc. = money your economy can provide, you can have as many soldiers as your economy can equip & feed! And the more units, the bigger map & more proportional - the more enjoyable & interesting the game becomes, more strategist skills required, and more realistic! The only reason you might NOT like it - if you build too few units & lose to more numerous opponent:) But that is NOT a reason to change game to less realistic - the more units, land scales, the more complexity - the more interesting! If it is too hard for you to think that big - you can just select smaller map, but let the large scale options to exist for those who enjoy it! It is easy to scale down, but difficult & very interesting to scale up!
I think most problems you mentioned are NOT that strong really. But​
I would argue about some units strength, and suggest to introduce one more mounted horse cavalry unit – Lancers, early light cavalry, recon cavalry, armed with spears / lances / pikes but no heavy armor which differs them from knights. Lancers should have 6 strength and +100% against siege weapons because light cavalry can gallop very fast, faster then knights, thus with less losses pass distance from max shoot range till melee, more of them survive till melee & defeat siege weapons including cannons & artillery easier. Lancers require “Horseback Riding” and “Hunting” techs, and “horses” resource – no metal required. Lancers and Horse Archers when those tech researched, make chariots obsolete (not in parallel but completely obsolete) – that is why Native Americans, Africans, and most civs except most ancient, never ever used chariots, but only horseback riding – chariots were very short period of civilizations, Persians even did NOT use chariots at all but had Immortals riding horse backs, because it is much more maneuverable and efficient (disadvantage of immortal is lack of stirrups compared to lancers), and chariot production should cost almost same hammers as Lancers and a bit more expensive horse archers, maybe even more than each – you have to build whole cart and spears for a chariot, but only a spear / bow & stirrups for Lancers and Horse Archers. Carthagian Numidian Cavalry replace Lancers with additional +50% against melee units, while Mongolian Keshiks replace knights – Mongols never had heavy plate armor due to scarcity of metals, but Keshiks were extremely efficient, like knights – horse archers & lancers are separate units for Mongols. Horse archers were very powerful units very widely used by all civs especially nomadic, no unit should ever replace this most common globally ubiquitous units, from Persians and Mongolians to Native Americans and Africans… Horse Archers used hit-and-run tactics against melee units, evading melee combat because horses are much faster then footmen, thus horse archers must have 7 basic strength and +50% attack against melee units – only attack, as they don’t have this advantage when they are stuck in a city defense, forest, or other tight place. Mounted units are strongest in open fields, cavalry should be king of fields and infantry – king of trenches. Numidian Cavalry are lancers with extra +50% against melee units, and normal +100% against siege weapons. Horse archers are the most Mongolian units ever, Keshiks are heavy cavalry equal to knights, but much cheaper to produce. Knights might be available for production simultaneously with lancers & horse archers, because knights are very strong but very expensive to manufacture, while lancers & horse archers are cheap cavalry, that historically were used simultaneously a lot – knights were nobles while light cavalry were cheaper recruits. War elephants were much stronger units, normally carrying more than one person onboard – they had usually towers on their back with at least 1 spearman and 2 archers in the tower on top of their back, and they must have at least 9 or more basic strength. How a macemen regiment can beat a war elephant regiment, even if there are 2000 macemen and 100 elephants in a regiment? Elephants crushed may times outnumbering Roman Praetorian regiments. Macemen should have 7 strength, its only advantage against a horse archer is in defense in city, forest, hills, or other terrains where macemen don’t have to run long distance under rain of arrows. Elephants must be much stronger then macemen – each War Elephant has many people in tower on top of its back, with several archers and one or more spearmen, long tusks, it is NOT easy to hit an elephant, and even once you hit it – elephant is not going to fall because of just one hit with a mace, it has much stronger bones then a human... Knight should have 11 strength, Cuirassier 13 strength, Cavalry 16 strength. Either Lancers 6 strength + 100% against siege weapons (Lancer is stronger against a machine gun or cannon because it runs faster then heavy knight, siege weapons are awfully mortal at significant distance, but once cavalry reached melee – Lancers & other cavalry can kill siege weapons almost punishlessly in a melee) or Horse Archers 7 strength or both make chariots obsolete not produceable anymore, but Knights might replace only Lancers (or, Lancers still replace Knights with Guilds if no Iron available, or lancers & horse archers & knights produceable simultaneously)) while still allow to produce Horse Archers in parallel, as Horse Arches are very much cheaper to produce then knights, but almost same attack efficiency against melee units – knights only way outperform horse archers against archery units & mounted units. Also, almost any mounted unit from chariots to knights have pike as main primary weapon because who strikes first wins, & sword as secondary after losing a spear stuck in enemy body.
Knights become less efficient from arrows – longbow arrow carry a lot of momentum, and can break bones even if they did not penetrate the plate armor! Crossbowmen were like medieval snipers and should have +50% city attack +1 first strike, while longbowmen should have +25% against crossbowmen +2 first strikes. Melee units were cheap but weak, mounted units were strong but expensive, this lead to the emergence of the nobility class & feudalism formation – the whole purpose of feudalism was to make cavalry pay for their own maintenance.
Also, I would argue about siege weapons concepts – siege weapons are the more efficient the more concentrated the enemy is, but if enemy dissipated in an open field on widest surface surrounding a single canon regiment caught without infantry or cavalry to protect it in open field, or catapults even less efficient – in open field, lets say 100 canons surrounded by 2000 macemen or musketmen, then one shot of canon even with grapes kills 1 enemy, in best case 2-3, compared to dozens killed and wounded from a canon shot in a dense crowd in a city, which is more collapsing buildings also kill and injure or temporarily capture people under ruins even without cannonballs hitting them directly – so, cannons and other siege weapons are extremely efficient when storming a crowded city with very high density of enemy warriors, but very low efficiency in open field if caught by enemy infantry or cavalry without support of your infantry or cavalry – thus, siege weapons must be escorted, and very efficient only in siege, but very weak in other situations. Thus, catapult should have 4 strength +100% on city attack and available with construction because it needs both mathematics and complex construction; trebuchet 3 strength +250% city attack, canon 8 strength +50% city attack +50% against war elephants +25% against knights, artillery 15 strength +50% city attack, mobile artillery 22 strength + 25% city attack.
Musketmen can have 9 strength but +50% against war elephants who have 10 strength.
Also, I see completely misunderstood concepts of modern fleets: missile cruiser has way much wider range then any battleship and can sink a battleship way before it comes close enough to even fire a shot – that is why modern fleets stopped producing battleships, because rockets have way way beyond range compared to barrel artillery! Thus, missile cruiser should have 4 first strikes! Missile cruiser is weaker then WW2 battleship in near combat – if battleship pops out of nowhere near missile cruiser, for example gets out of well defended port or cave right in front of missile cruiser – battleship would probably win. So, missile cruiser might have 38 or 36 strength compared to 40 for battleship. But in reality, missile cruiser will sink a battleship with rockets way before battleship comes close enough to make even a single shot! That is why 4 first strikes – modern naval warfare is mainly about the range, as we can beat any armor – it became more efficient to produce many lighter ships that just carry rockets, then big ships with thick walls, as rockets will sink them anyhow! Missile cruiser will basically sink most WW2 & earlier ships almost flawlessly by 4 first strikes. Only submarines should be immune to first strikes, but no other unit on land, sea, air, etc.! Also, WW2 Submarine can NOT carry nukes – it is too small and there were no nukes at that time, 24 strength earliest Submarine should carry only 1 cargo space of scouts, explorers, missionaries, spies, great people, or maybe on footmen unit without machines (melee, archery, or gunpowder except mechanized infantry – no tank or artillery as they won’t fit it, but USSR transported a lot infantry in WW2 submarines into Sevastopol during its defense) – that is all it can carry, it is like underwater caravel! But WW3 30 strength Attack Submarines – they do carry nukes only, 3 cargo spaces – the authors confused old and modern submarines cargo functions completely, need to do cargo for submarine types vice versa to correct! And also, the Ironclad should look NOT like those ugly malfunctional weak first ever ironclads, but like the famous symbol of the Great October Revolution, the Aurora Cruiser – that is how most steam ships ever produced looked, during WW1! And Drednout type WW2 oil based ships became MUCH stronger because instead of many small canons, they used a few long barrel long range huge caliper cannons with cumulative warheads, which sank enemy ships far away before they even came close enough to fire a shot from their let it be numerous but shorter range canons – modern naval warfare is mainly about maximizing the range, it is about whose missiles reach enemy first, who has longest range wins!
Wall of text, please split it better

EDIT : this was maybe a little rude, so I apologies if it was perceived that way. However, I highly encourage you to split and organize your text to make it more readable. As of now, I haven't read any of this because the cheer amount of word without organization makes me feel I'm going to drown without knowing when I can do a pause whilst reading. The better you split, the more likely other people will read your comments.
 
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Wall of text + seems to be weirdly translated? What even is a "first strike"?
 
Problem 2: Upgrading units is generally quite easy. This limits strategy and also introduces balance concerns that have led to some late game units being less interesting than they otherwise could be.

  • Unless you are very cash strapped, it is quite easy to have all of your important units upgraded within 5-10 turns of researching their upgraded version, meaning that there is little strategic decision making that goes into upgrading units. Additionally, creating and upgrading a unit from the prior tier almost always costs around the same gold/production as producing a new, current-tier unit. Thus it almost always makes sense to upgrade rather than train as your upgraded units will be available sooner and have better promotions. Even if we didn't decide to make units scale harder, I still think making train+upgrade cost more than just training/purchasing would be a good change.
  • Upgrading units should be expensive and it should be common to see heterogeneous armies. Not only is this how military technology generally functions in the real world, like how the Union army in the US civil war used gatling guns, repeating cartridge rifles, muzzle-loading rifles, rifled and unrifled muzzle-loading and breech-loading cannons, wooden warships, ironclads, horses and trains, etc... all at the same time, but it adds more strategic thinking to the game.
  • Especially in the late game when unit upgrades essentially create entirely new units, like jumping from Lancer to Landship, Cavalry to Light Tank to Helicopter Gunship, Musketman to Gatling Gun, etc. it is odd how easy it is to make those upgrades. In the current game unit tier strength and upgrade costs are in this odd symbiotic relationship where either because upgrades are so cheap tier strength increases are small, or because tier strength increases are small upgrades must be cheap. I think increasing both will make the game more interesting while preserving balance. After all, if a Landship were to properly dominate a Lancer, we wouldn't want it to be easy to upgrade every single one of our Lancers once we get oil on-line. Instead, if we made upgrades actually expensive and difficult for all units, we could make those special units even more interesting because we could lean more into their unique capabilities to buff them to the required level instead of just mere CS buffs.
Currently your units need to be in your own land to upgrade. What if we made it so they had to be on a city tile?

That would slow down upgrading significantly, and make it pretty tedious to keep a standing army in the field over 2+ eras. The Imperialism tenet could augment that to In or next to a city, or In forts and Citadels.
Retrofitting an army takes a long time. Historically, WWI was partially motivated by Russia's modernization and rearmament, but that still gave the rest of Europe many years to react.

If a war breaks out while you're still in the process of shuffling units through to upgrade them, you will be forced to use heterogenous forces as you describe. Restricting the amount of legal tiles you can upgrade on seems like a preferable way to make phasing units a gradual process than increasing the gold cost of upgrading.

Another alternative would be to make upgrading units some sort of worker action. You need a worker stacked below your military unit, and it takes X turns and Y gold to upgrade the unit. Or it could be done instantly, but you still have the bottleneck of requiring your workers to move around and visit each of your military units. This would also give work boats something to do besides kill themselves on fish tiles.

Both of these would require new AI to train them to be able to do these things. Teaching the AI to shuffle obsolete units through cities seems easier than training them to use workers/work boats in a new way though.
 
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I dont have a good solution to the problem other than reduce supply or some kind of solution similar to the corps/army system in Civ 6, but I know that I really dislike that suggestion.
I, on the other hand, do like it. It makes upgrading more difficult and it makes sense flavor-wise. My only concern here is AI.
 
An update from what we have been talking about re: unit upgrade on the discord.

Proposal:
Upgrading military units reduces their HP to 1
Civilian unit upgrades unchanged (diplo units and settlers)
Exploitation (Imperialism policy) - Military Units can be upgraded in territory owned by Vassals and friendly City-States and HP lost is capped at some maximum amount, like 50 HP
 
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