Finding the balance - Animals & Totems

[Wauthan]

After starting a game as Dovellio I got a reminder on just how strong the various totem promotions are, and how incredibly easy they are to gain. In my opinion the totems either need to be toned down, or the animals made stronger. Right now it's plain cheese. The problem is that the reward doesn't match the challenge.

Wolf
2 Strength
2 Move
Can withdraw from combat (20% chance)
80% chance to turn into Wolf Pack unit

Notes: The wolf unit is pointless. The only thing it could threaten is an unguarded settler or great person. It's, however, to rare to pose such a threat. With the built-in +50% versus animals the Scout always beats a wolf. The withdraw chance, with the xp granted by retreat, will at least give it a tiny advantage.

Wolf Pack
3 Strength
2 Move
Can withdraw from combat (25% chance)
25% chance to spawn new Wolf unit

Notes:
The pack is a little stronger but will still lose to a scout in just about any normal situation. Is it possible to change this unit into a "minifleshgolem"? That you could sacrifice Wolf units and the Wolf Pack gains their promotions?

Wolf Totem
Adds +15 withdrawal chance.

Notes:
+1 xp and +25% withdrawal chance is way over the top. The +1 xp alone would be worthy of a major challenge.

Lion
3 Strength
1 Move
Immune to fear
80% Chance of turning into Lion Pride

Notes:
RL lions are pretty easy to scare but fantasy lions have always been envisioned as fearless. Since they hang out in the deserts they can be surprisingly strong in the early game, taking advantage of the -25% defense from the terrain.

Lion Pride
3 Strength
1 Move
Immune to fear
1 First strike

Notes:
Same idea as with the wolf pack. The first strike is to symbolize the typical ambush attack the pride uses.

Lion Totem
Immune to fear

Notes:
The +1 attack strength is not nearly as strong as the +1 xp/combat but since lions are fairly common the bonus is simply to easy to gain. E.g. the extra attack strength on the svartalfar hunters gives them a very serious 7 attack strength total in the early game.

Tiger
4 Strength
1 Move
1 First Strike
Invisible to most units

Notes:
Legends about tigers emphasize their seemingly supernatural stealth and power. Having it being a "mobile spider" would make them interesting enough to keep around, making the summoned unit actually worth something else then assassin bait.

Tiger Totem
+2 First strikes

Notes:
+3 is too many, and +25% strength on top of that very strong. Since a FoL priest can summon these it means that religion currently got some serious power, especially as Svartalfar or Dovellio.

Gorilla
5 Strength
1 Move
Woodsman I

Notes:
The banana affinity is funny, but not very fluffy. Having strength 10 banana powered super gorillas is a fair bit silly. The Woodsman I promotion, with the ability to select Woodsman II, would make them pretty hard to catch.They should be non-aggressive, like the Elephant, as to not turn forests even more dangerous.

Gorilla Totem
+30 Defend/Attack in Forest/Jungle/Ancient Forest/Deep Jungle

Notes:
The current promotion is way, way, over the top. A simple addition to the woodsman bonus would be more balanced, and still pretty strong.

Bear
5 Strength
1 Move
25% Chance of gaining Enraged promotion after combat

Notes:
Please chance the graphic into a single unit. A sloth of bears are pretty silly as a concept.

Bear Totem
+30% Strength

Notes:
Feels fairly balanced. Bears have a shot at taking out an unexperienced Hunter, and the Enraged promotion would make hunting them a less casual pastime.

Polar Bear
6 Strength
1 Move
Winterborn
25% Chance of gaining Enraged promotion after combat

Notes:
All polar bears I meet are of the Lost variety. They all live in the jungle. Since you get a better totem from them they need to be stronger.

Polar Bear Totem
+40% Strength
+20% Resistance to Cold Damage

Notes:
Stronger bear compensates for the stronger totem. Good reward for an experienced Hunter.

Giant Spider
4 Strength
+1 Poison
Invisible

Notes:
Drop the spawning of Baby Spiders. That unit is too weak to be useful, and this unit is strong enough without it.

Giant Spider Totem
+1 First strike
+1 Poison
+25% City strength

Notes:
The withdrawal chance makes no sense, and the suggested bonus is a good reward for getting a unit with Subdue Beasts.

Griffon
6 Strength
1 Move
Flying
Can withdraw from combat (25% chance)

Notes:
I know the withdraw chance will make the unit even more annoying, but this little bonus will make it better worth the reward. Makes sense that a flying unit could flee combat.

Griffon Totem

Notes:
A totem that feels good enough just as it is. It's a nice bonus to a Beastmaster, and is enough of a challenge to feel worth the trouble. That you can upgrade it into a Griffon Rider means you have to make a decision of getting a good unit or a good promotion.

Swamp Troll
7 Strength
1 Move
Amphibious
+100% Healing every turn
+2 Life Magic Affinity

Notes:
The rarest of the lot. And these guys should be the top dog, owning even the mighty Hill Giants. Since they are so rare I would like to empower them greatly, so the AI doesn't gobble them all up in the early game. The Life Magic Affinity seemed an interesting fit, since Life Magic is an unpopular choice and a stark contrast to the general concept of trolls.

Troll Totem

Notes:
Just right as it is. The healing bonus is a great boon to the late game units, that can heal enough to keep going forever. By giving the trolls a strong Life Magic affinity I want to make the player think twice before making a totem out of the unit.

 

[sputnik323]

The problem is that the reward doesn't match the challenge.

The Doviello have their own unique challenges to overcome. And with animals becoming more rare in later games - being replaced by Barbarian units, I think that the challenge matches in that you have to try and get as many animals as quickly as possible. I think it is good as it stands now, but that could easily change if Orbi took in the 3 separate barbarian classes like FF does (which is probably a ton of work). That would allow (weaker) animals to spawn throughout the game (not just a bunch of griffins running around everywhere). Usually I play marathon (multiplayer) games, so my bias may be different than people playing faster paced games.

 

[Wauthan]

True enough. But there's a ritual that turns Barbarians into Animals, and the Dovellio world spell is now basically a +1 xp/combat +25 withdrawal chance permanently to all units. And it is in the early game that the power of the promotions causes the most trouble.

They can also, quite easily, be made permanently available through the use of the Wild Haven. This also means that you can build a mounted unit that gets a totem, and then grant it the promotion from your knightly order. My last game as the Hippus sort of indicated that this ability is slightly unbalanced.

 

[Jabie]

Wolf
2 Strength
2 Move
Can withdraw from combat (20% chance)
80% chance to turn into Wolf Pack unit

Notes: The wolf unit is pointless. The only thing it could threaten is an unguarded settler or great person. It's, however, to rare to pose such a threat. With the built-in +50% versus animals the Scout always beats a wolf. The withdraw chance, with the xp granted by retreat, will at least give it a tiny advantage.

How about giving the Doviello (and Amurites and Illians(?)) the capacity to use Wolves to build Kennels, which give +10% City Defence. They could do so in Age of Ice, so there's precedent and the code is already written, so should be easily portable.

 

[arkham4269]

The Doviello have their own unique challenges to overcome. And with animals becoming more rare in later games - being replaced by Barbarian units...

However, after playing the Doviello a few times, it becomes apparent that the "MUST HAVE" thing for the Doviello is Nature ritual that converts barbarians to animals. While it benefits the Doviello no matter who ever casts it, I found that it is better to only cast the ritual after I was ready with a strong enough naval force to run around to all the places that haven't been overrun by the various Civs to take advantage of all the newly created animals.

That way, going into the late mid-game, I had a lots of units with animal totems and it was worth it to fast track the naval techs to have so many units with the bear totem and the like. Plus, if the Doviello get FoL, then they can at least use Fauns to capture sea-monsters to hopefully make it a bit safer to get around on the ocean earlier, making capture of animals that much easier.

 

[Breez]

I agreed with your assesment for the most part EXCEPT...

Bear

Notes:
Please chance the graphic into a single unit. A sloth of bears are pretty silly as a concept.

So are magic and dragons... I like multiple unit graphics so I can judge how strong the unit is during combat.

Notes:
Drop the spawning of Baby Spiders. That unit is too weak to be useful, and this unit is strong enough without it.

I like baby spiders! Okay I LOVE the mechnic that FF added that gives then a 1% chance to "grow" into a giant spider every turn also, makes them useful for something other than sitting in a city eating up units that withdrew or sitting on borders eating unprotected workers... Letting them sit in a city until they grow up works nicely.