Civ Discussion - Persia

[Leucarum]

I absolutely disagree. It's a useful promotion to have but not an essential one at all. If you don't have it, you unpack your troops the turn before you DoW, and that's no big deal. If you're attacked well, you just unpack anyway and allow your units to sponge attacks. units are dirt cheap in antiquity, just buy them with gold in your nearby cities.

Hmm - There is so much janky cheese you can pull if you can load, unload and attack with units in the same turn that I don't think it's even remotely close. I don't think it's so much about the ability to get the drop on war declaration, as much as it is the ability to rapidly redeploy your army on a whim with zero consequences...

What's the second best promotion and why is it manuever?

That said, I also tend not to prioritize completing a tree right off the bat. I almost always go Assault then Maneuver, and then pick a tree to actually go down... Which quite frequently is logistics.

 

[uppi]

Hmm - There is so much janky cheese you can pull if you can load, unload and attack with units in the same turn that I don't think it's even remotely close. I don't think it's so much about the ability to get the drop on war declaration, as much as it is the ability to rapidly redeploy your army on a whim with zero consequences...


That said, I also tend not to prioritize completing a tree right off the bat. I almost always go Assault then Maneuver, and then pick a tree to actually go down... Which quite frequently is logistics.

My problem with taking Assault and Maneuver first and then focus on something else is that it delays Order by so much. Not only does it take two extra promotions, but those also cost more XP. And against Deity-level Ai bonuses, Order is kind of necessary.

I may be alone in this, but I usually prioritize the Bastion tree until I get to Order

 

[Siptah]

I‘ve played multiple games with Persia at release, and was impressed how good they are at conquering. After more games with all civs. I’m less impressed by the quality, and more by the fun to play with them. Most of the kit (ability, both UUs, wonder, any of the Xerxes‘) gives you a feel of being strong and generally quicker to act than the others. It‘s also fun with the +1 movement from Napoléon or of course with Trung Tracs free promotions.

The immortal questline is… too specific?

I‘m generally still not convinced of most of the unique improvements. Yes, they spare production and thus allow to spend more of it on units. But they just aren‘t that good in most cases?

 

[stealth_nsk]

I‘m generally still not convinced of most of the unique improvements. Yes, they spare production and thus allow to spend more of it on units. But they just aren‘t that good in most cases?

It's pretty important, unique improvements don't require settlements to be in cities. When I play as Maya, it feels like I put all effort into having as many cities as possible and build unique districts there. When I play as, say Axum, I'm much more relaxed and have all my fitting rural district covered with UI without focusing.

 

[disjointaccount]

I absolutely disagree. It's a useful promotion to have but not an essential one at all. If you don't have it, you unpack your troops the turn before you DoW, and that's no big deal. If you're attacked well, you just unpack anyway and allow your units to sponge attacks. units are dirt cheap in antiquity, just buy them with gold in your nearby cities.

Logistics otoh... allows you to pack more units, which retains more units between era's, and allows you to scale cliffs if you get 4 levels into it, which is massive. When I had my aggressive persia game, it took AGES to conquer ashoka because his empire was perched behind layers of cliffs. I had to buy cavalry to reinforce my army as my immortals couldn't maneuver around the chokepoints - they would block the hexes where i wanted my ballistae to be for bombardement purposes. I ultimately won (on the LAST TURN of the age), but it was such a production, and only Survival Training would have made it easier.

In other games I've had instances where the AI planted their cities on a cliff face next to a mountain. and I could only attack the City Centre from 1-2 squares, and then had to spend 10-ish turns moving around the mountain to capture the other districts behind the cliff.

Assault is useful and it leads to a good amount of bonus Combat Strength but that is useless if you simply cannot reach the hexes you want to attack before the enemy runs out of money/units to throw at you. Unless your army is full cavalry + ranged, but if that's the case, when why are you Persia, and not Maurya?

That isn't to say the Persian Commander is weak. Initiative is the best tier 1 promotion and they get it for free, and retain it for the rest of the game. That's awesome! But utility beats strength every single time.

I think @Leucarum nailed it. I'll agree that Initiative isn't super impactful when it comes to unloading units ahead of a wardec, but it's absolutely gamechanging during the war. Being able to swap units in and out of the commander on the fly to reposition them (particularly nice for siege) or replace weakened units with healthy ones is incredibly powerful, and also very fun. I'd say it's a pretty defining part of how I've come to love combat so much as a big part of 7, coming from being fairly pacifist in 6. And that wouldn't really be possible without Initiative. If you're approaching war thinking of your commander as a troop transport that just drops his 4-6 units in the area when it's time to fight, I'd really encourage trying to keep him central to the combat and using packing/unpacking for a more dynamic strategy. It's an absolute blast and will really give you a feel for just how much potential Initiative has.

As for other promotions, I tend to go Initiative -> Mobility -> Quartermaster -> Regiments as my first 4. It's a lot of XP spent without putting serious progress towards a commendation, but I really value maximising the basic utility of my commanders. After Regiments I just focus on getting to the bottom of trees, typically starting with either Assault or Manoeuvre.

 

[Leucarum]

My problem with taking Assault and Maneuver first and then focus on something else is that it delays Order by so much. Not only does it take two extra promotions, but those also cost more XP. And against Deity-level Ai bonuses, Order is kind of necessary.

I may be alone in this, but I usually prioritize the Bastion tree until I get to Order

That's fair, and there's a difference for sure in how I prioritize promotions depending on whether I am just facing barbs, small attacks, or a full invasion... Stacking strength is just too important at higher difficulties

 

[Nikolai II]

Not my first choice to play, but if I want war, it's decent. I just rather want to be left to my own devices and build my empire in peace.

 

[Navelgazer]

I just made a separate thread for the Commander Promotions discussion.

 

[reddishrecue]

The anti cavalry melee unique unit for Persia is good particularly against cavalry dependent civilizations like Carthage. I remember I lost a lot of Numidian because I had to face immortals.