Firaxis: Here's another exploit to fix!

Bamspeedy

CheeseBob
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Messages
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Amish Country, Wisconsin, USA
Infinite City Size!

9000citizens.jpg


This was first discovered when, who else but the AI used it!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16430&highlight=size+city

Then it was noticed in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=246809#post246809

But the scoring potential was not fully realized until this thread: (begins at the very end of this page, then continues on the next pages) WARNING: GOTM SPOILER THREAD!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23811&pagenumber=6

Basically what it is, is having every single city building a worker, then transferring this worker and have it 'join' a super sized city. You only lose 1 citizen per turn due to starvation, so as long as you are adding more than 1 citizen per turn, you are getting ahead. The cities that are building these workers should only be losing a specialists, but now has more food to build another worker/specialists.

When playing a game to score high, your increase in points per turns actually goes down after awhile (a while after you have reached max pop/territory), but with this exploit the increase in pts/turn will continue to increase, never decreasing. In the game I will post, I should have maxed out around 27-30,000 pts if played to 2050 A.D. But if I continue to do this 'worker dogpiling' I would reach in the mid 40,000 pt range (regent level).

I made several mistakes in this game and if I could replay it I could score closer to 60,000 pts!! Aeson got 60,000+ pts on Deity without using this exploit and Deity should be about twice as high as regent scores. Global warming was my biggest mistake as I lost 40% of my grassland squares (4000 citizens in a city with no mass transit gives you 4000 pollution icons). Despite having all that global warming the points continued to increase.

Right now I have over 9000 citizens in my capital so my capital is worth 27,000 pts in the 'internal per-turn score'. I get about a five minute delay for the computer to re-assign all the specialists, another 5 minutes to cycle through all the cities notifying me of completed workers, and another 15-20 minutes of moving all the workers to the capital and rush-buying another 200+workers for the next turn. With Longevity wonder my score will increase tremendously.

This will/should be banned in GOTM and HoF, but this an exploit that someone with enough time/fast computer could take advantage of and easily cover it up. Even if they don't take it to the extreme I did, someone could join a bunch of workers into 1 city and gain some points they should not be getting. There was some discussion on how Firaxis could fix this in the GOTM spoiler thread, but I opened this thread so people can write their opinions here, so as to not spam the spoiler thread.

Edit: file is too big, even though it is zipped (600 kb). I can use the upload file system if anyone requests the .sav, I can post it that way.
 
Anyway, how many actual citizens were in the 9680 city? a trillion?

Well, I know it was in the billions before I hit 1000. The population number is real hard to figure out because it ends up overlapping with the date. Sometimes it would look like it was in the billions, but the next turn it would look like it was back in the millions. I'm sure it would be in the quadrillions, at least :lol: .
 
If I were you, I'd keep a save game of that just to see how crowded it can get. I'd keep plenty of workers on hand as well to clean up all pollution in one turn to prevent global warming.

It is a big problem though, think about it. If you made 9k gold each turn off just that one city (all of them taxmen) that's 9k units right there you could upkeep, even if not on Democracy. All taxmen. Or you can just buy tech for unrealistic prices.

Think of how much future tech. you could research with that much.
 
I'll probably keep the save. If you look at the spoiler thread I posted a screenshot of the city. About 1/2-2/3 of the specialists are entertainers and as you'll see in the screenshot it would be nearly impossible to manually change them. I only have 1 opponent left with a size 1 city in a desert, and she is 2 ages behind me in tech, so no reason for all that cash or a real big military. With science at 10% I was learning modern age techs every 4 turns because of all the specialists.

Future tech doesn't give hardly any points at all. Grey Fox researched a whole bunch of them and only got something like 13 points.
 
Wow, that's just too much work! No offend, but even if Firaxis doesn't fix this bug, I would never exploit it. According to Bamspeedy, it would take at least 30 minutes per turn and he has fast computer. I would loose my sanity if I wait that long and it would take me at least a year just to finish a game (since I have only about 30 minute each day to play game).
 
One would think that a city with that population WOULD EXPAND A FEW TILES!!

That has long been a peculiarity of the game - no matter how big a city gets it stays on one tile. How about a ten tile Megalopolis?
 
Originally posted by Zouave
One would think that a city with that population WOULD EXPAND A FEW TILES!!

That has long been a peculiarity of the game - no matter how big a city gets it stays on one tile. How about a ten tile Megalopolis?

Well, the game wasn't programed for size 1000+ cities, and for smaller, real-world-sized cities, I'm not sure even New York/Tokyo/etc would amount for more than 1, PERHAPS 2 tiles. And 2 is really stretching it.

And that's using a Giga-map
 
this is possibly the stupidest thing i have ever seen.

your turns take 25-35 minutes and you cant build anything usefull, gee that does seem worth it. when you see your final score you can be proud?

then i bet we see a new thread bragging how high your score is because you did this.
 
your turns take 25-35 minutes and you cant build anything usefull, gee that does seem worth it. when you see your final score you can be proud?

Um, in case you didn't read the first post carefully enough, I don't plan on finishing the game. (Notice in my first post I said "IF I CONTINUE....")

The length of turns is why I have stopped. I don't need to build anything useful because I only have 1 opponent left with a size 1 city in the desert that only has a couple spearman. Oh, wait you're right, I have to watch out for those killer spearmen!:eek: .

I only did this to show the scoring potential of this exploit to show how serious it could be. I could simply stop adding workers now, and just hit space bar for the rest of the game and end up getting 5,000 pts higher than I should have without using this exploit.

And as yet another example of how flawed the scoring system is that rewards 'milking'. Do you have any suggestions on how to fix the scoring system, though?
 
Here's the pic of when it had 4400+ citizens. The view doesn't change because the specialists and pollution icons runs off the screen. Once I got mass transit, I only had 1 pollution icon though.

Very_Big_city!.jpg
 
The city based on the formula n(N+1)/2 where n is equivalent to 10,000 people would be huge.

9680 (9681)/2 = 46,856,040 (10,000/n)
= 460,856,040,000 people, or 4.68 x 10 Exp11.

VERY big city.
 
It's pretty funny. There must be a booming bunkbed industry in that city.
 
I figured this out, this is not really a problem. It just like New York City. They can't produce enough food to support the population and just import food but not enough.

CB
 
It should be banned in GOTM and other competitions. I was reading Sullla's site (actually really great stuff) and he was talking about how he tried really hard in GOTM8 other people could get twice his score with the Infinite City Size (ICS, anyone?) with half the effort.
 
That is absolutely disgusting:eek:

In SMAC you would be eaten by mind worms if you tried that. You couldn't get away with being really industrious or getting too big. Civ 3 needs natural limitations like that.
 
You will get massive pollution near that city. Global warming may (probably will) set in. But it won't matter if your entire world is a desert 'cuz you'll have 60000 points.
 
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