[R&F] Firaxis, please fix England (again)

[liv]

Poor England. Keeps getting worse and worse. It needs something, either economy or loyalty for sure

 

[Flaxton]

I feel harbours are a weak district overall. The harbour buildings aren't specialized, they seem to be unable to decide if the district is supposed to generate food, production or gold. Because the number of districts you can build is limited, building a harbour means not building something else, and when trade routes are so lucrative, that usually means not building a commercial hub. However, harbours are overall worse than commercial hubs. Com hubs give Great Merchant points, which are still probably the strongest great person in the game even after losing the free policy slot. Economic city states also give big bonuses to commercial hub buildings while there are no city state bonuses for harbours.

If Firaxis really wants RND or harbours in general to be good, they need to address that last point. If RND gave great merchant points in addition to great admiral points, I'd be less opposed to building them. Also, 1/3 of commercial and 1/3 of military city states should be for harbours instead of commercial hubs and encampments. Harbour-military city states would give production bonuses towards units, etc. to harbours and Harbour-commercial city states would give gold bonuses.

Love the idea of a merged commercial and harbour district . Also make them affected by commercial city states.

Now that would be different.

 

[Ferocitus]

Poor England. Keeps getting worse and worse. It needs something...

How about accepting that not all civs are top tier?

So after England are buffed to satisfy those who want it to be better,
do Firaxis then have to buff another civ because some people perceive
that one as the new "worst" civ?

Use mods if you want your favourite civ to be awesome so you can win every
game gloriously, and all by yourself.

 

[dunkleosteus]

How about accepting that not all civs are top tier?

So after England are buffed to satisfy those who want it to be better,
do Firaxis then have to buff another civ because some people perceive
that one as the new "worst" civ?

Use mods if you want your favourite civ to be awesome so you can win every
game gloriously, and all by yourself.

Every civ gets something "unique". I think the argument here is that England's unique district really doesn't measure up in comparison to the other uniques that civs get. Harbours are a bit of a hard sell to begin with and RND doesn't do much to improve on that. Each civ should be good at something in their own way.

 

[liv]

So after England are buffed to satisfy those who want it to be better,
do Firaxis then have to buff another civ because some people perceive
that one as the new "worst" civ?
.

I think some of the frustration some of us have has to do with the fact that England has been made worse for no good reason. Sometimes civs are nerfed because they were overpowered but England seems to have been just a casualty of circumstances and then gone down the hill.

 

[Eliminator_Sr]

Every civ gets something "unique". I think the argument here is that England's unique district really doesn't measure up in comparison to the other uniques that civs get. Harbours are a bit of a hard sell to begin with and RND doesn't do much to improve on that. Each civ should be good at something in their own way.

It's a helluva lot better than renaissance walls. Half price harbors that grant a free unit are pretty good IMO. Also, the Redcoat is decently strong and finished in the top half of the UU elimination thread.

 

[dunkleosteus]

It's a helluva lot better than renaissance walls. Half price harbors that grant a free unit are pretty good IMO. Also, the Redcoat is decently strong and finished in the top half of the UU elimination thread.

renaissance walls are something you can build in every city, at least. RND means sacrificing another district

 

[Eliminator_Sr]

renaissance walls are something you can build in every city, at least. RND means sacrificing another district

Sure you can but do you ever actually build them? I don't. Harbors on the other hand I build plenty of even at full price. I'd rather have a half price harbor district in a coastal city with earlier access to traders than a normal district. Perhaps if people actually tried making the most of England's bonuses rather than complaining about them so often they would find that England is decent. They are still one of the best civs period on island maps.

 

[acluewithout]

Well, I have tried them, and I still think they’re currently pretty rubbish.

I play continents maps, not islands, which I think is more of a default map.

England’s only real advantage at the moment is that it does get a half-price harbour - so you’re right that this is a strength.

The RND is not really that much better than a normal harbour, because you just get smashed if you build off continent so the “off home continent” bonuses just don’t really come into play, and the +1 movement is hard to get or keep (your first few boats likely won’t get it, and you lose it when you upgrade boats anyway). The extra admiral points are nice, but hardly game changing.

But harbours are neverthess a pretty good district, and so getting them at half price is nice.

But that’s all really. Museum? Good, but comes very late. Sea Dog? Trash. Pax B - well, this has been discussed at length in this thread and others. It’s really not that useful as is. Redcoat - great unit, but without getting units on capturing a city, these units are hard to get out in numbers.

Saying England is great on island plates isn’t much of a selling point. I’ve always played continents, which is a good mix of land and sea, and England were very viable for continents in Vanilla. Now they’re just rubbish, albeit perhaps okay on niche island plates maps, eg lots of foreign continents you can settle that don’t have existing AI on them.

 

[Ellerby]

Perhaps if people actually tried making the most of England's bonuses rather than complaining about them so often they would find that England is decent.

Gosh I wonder why I didn't think of that.