"Fire" Developer Diary

Basium will be at war with at least 2 civs for most of the time in most games (since he is at war with all AV religions) so therefore he will try and get allies! The best way for him to have strong allies (good civs are the best allies too!) is to increase the Armageddon counter! Therefore what is his motivation to destroy AV cities?

:confused:

Because, they will get stronger with counter rising.

I just hope the armaggedon effects come only once, I would be difficult to play with barbarian heroes spawning again and again.

I'm just looking forward to playing elohim vs. sheaim, duel pangea map.
 
Talking about allies:
This will be very hard for Basium, after all Civ doesnt allow to create Alliances& Defence Pacts while you are at war.
 
The warscript will create de facto alliances through the dogpile and love/hate-mechanic, so I wouldn't worry too much.
 
I have some questions about the new AI diplomacy system.Is the new system more "scripted" and less dynamic?Are wars for example more predictable?If Svartalfar is stronger than Elohim and Armageddon counter is really high will Svartalfar always declare war on Elohim?

-The Armageddon counter starts as soon as AV is founded?
-The Armageddon counter is based on how much turns remains before the event is triggered?Or the counter is in points?
 
This Armageddon counter is very intersting.

Maybe some good civs have to react with a sort of defensive pact when all evil civs start to destroy the weaker civ, which can be at one time a good civ.
We can imagine an intermediate level before going at war. Some civs may prefer to give their units/ part of gold or something else (like a lend-lease or like china helped n-korea in the fiftys) in order to influence the Armageddon counter in the way they want.
 
I was thinking of the warscript mechanic, and I really like the idea for games involving the AI. However, I believe that for games involving only human players (which I still think is the only interesting kind of game; the AI is either so strong due to its unfair advantages that it becomes unkillable or killable only through things that could be considered exploits (which normally tend to be very boring), or else it's so easy that you quit halfway through the game because you KNOW you've won and see no reason to go through the motions) there isn't enough motivation yet to "roleplay" alignment.

Hence a couple of ideas.

War weariness needs to become a lot more important. I would like to expand the term into the opposite of weariness as well--war exuberance. Think of the pictures of young men waving their hats in celebration when World War One began.

Sometimes, your people will feel that there is a JUST CAUSE to go to war (for instance when it's against the French) (no wait), and they will support the war effort. I propose that for certain constellations, a war (and not just the declaration of a war, but actually having your doods in THEIR base, killing THEIR doods, if you know what I mean) should give happiness bonuses. The obvious situation would be good vs evil. These bonuses could increase at certain armageddon counter levels (because, obviously, the world is in danger, and we all need to support the war against THE EVIL NAZIS--I mean, hell-people) (or, conversely, we've almost won! Let's push one last time to wipe the good civilizations off the face of the earth!) (for reasons I will explain later, the bonus should be bigger on the good civs) Other things could influence this "justified war" exuberance; for instance, things like "they have razed one of our cities!" or "they declared war on an ally" and so on. Certain buildings could further increase this effect.

Otoh, a good civ declaring war on another good civ for no good reason (hah!) should get hefty penalties. Similarly for religions: what are we doing killing our brothers in faith? Why should we support the war against THAT civ if they fought by our side in the last major conflict?

Here's where good and evil might deviate in their bonuses: good civs would get heftier penalties for "backstabbing" and attacking people of the same alignment/religion while in evil civs, well, that sort of behaviour is more or less expected. This could be balanced by giving good civs much stronger war exuberance when fighting the evil guys (because, let's face it, SAVING the world *IS* a stronger motivation than destroying it ;))

If this was found to be insufficient, we could also add production bonuses (as per Germany's idea of the "total war"--not that that WORKED, but we can use the idea ;P)

Long wars become tiring, even if they were justified in the beginning. After some point, all war exuberance should wear off and turn into war weariness.

Finally, to mimic dogpiling in multiplayer games, there should also be war exuberance for one good civ helping its ally in a war.

What do you think? Could this be feasible?
 
Basium will be at war with at least 2 civs for most of the time in most games (since he is at war with all AV religions) so therefore he will try and get allies! The best way for him to have strong allies (good civs are the best allies too!) is to increase the Armageddon counter! Therefore what is his motivation to destroy AV cities?

:confused:

We will talk abotu Basium next week. He has something special that nobody else has to help in his crusade.
 
Because, they will get stronger with counter rising.

I just hope the armaggedon effects come only once, I would be difficult to play with barbarian heroes spawning again and again.

I'm just looking forward to playing elohim vs. sheaim, duel pangea map.

They do only occur once.
 
I have some questions about the new AI diplomacy system.Is the new system more "scripted" and less dynamic?Are wars for example more predictable?If Svartalfar is stronger than Elohim and Armageddon counter is really high will Svartalfar always declare war on Elohim?

If the armageddon counter is high, and the elohim are the weakest civ that the svartalfar know of there is a good chance that the Svartalfar will declare war on them. Thats what an evil civ should do during armageddon, start kicking weak players out of the game. It isnt predictable, its just really aggresive AI (when the armageddon counter is high).

-The Armageddon counter starts as soon as AV is founded?

No, the armageddon counter starts when the game starts. But it doesnt really get started (except for an occasional city raze) until the AV gets founded.

-The Armageddon counter is based on how much turns remains before the event is triggered?Or the counter is in points?

The counter is points.
 
I was thinking of the warscript mechanic, and I really like the idea for games involving the AI. However, I believe that for games involving only human players (which I still think is the only interesting kind of game; the AI is either so strong due to its unfair advantages that it becomes unkillable or killable only through things that could be considered exploits (which normally tend to be very boring), or else it's so easy that you quit halfway through the game because you KNOW you've won and see no reason to go through the motions) there isn't enough motivation yet to "roleplay" alignment.

Hence a couple of ideas.

War weariness needs to become a lot more important. I would like to expand the term into the opposite of weariness as well--war exuberance. Think of the pictures of young men waving their hats in celebration when World War One began.

Sometimes, your people will feel that there is a JUST CAUSE to go to war (for instance when it's against the French) (no wait), and they will support the war effort. I propose that for certain constellations, a war (and not just the declaration of a war, but actually having your doods in THEIR base, killing THEIR doods, if you know what I mean) should give happiness bonuses. The obvious situation would be good vs evil. These bonuses could increase at certain armageddon counter levels (because, obviously, the world is in danger, and we all need to support the war against THE EVIL NAZIS--I mean, hell-people) (or, conversely, we've almost won! Let's push one last time to wipe the good civilizations off the face of the earth!) (for reasons I will explain later, the bonus should be bigger on the good civs) Other things could influence this "justified war" exuberance; for instance, things like "they have razed one of our cities!" or "they declared war on an ally" and so on. Certain buildings could further increase this effect.

Otoh, a good civ declaring war on another good civ for no good reason (hah!) should get hefty penalties. Similarly for religions: what are we doing killing our brothers in faith? Why should we support the war against THAT civ if they fought by our side in the last major conflict?

Here's where good and evil might deviate in their bonuses: good civs would get heftier penalties for "backstabbing" and attacking people of the same alignment/religion while in evil civs, well, that sort of behaviour is more or less expected. This could be balanced by giving good civs much stronger war exuberance when fighting the evil guys (because, let's face it, SAVING the world *IS* a stronger motivation than destroying it ;))

If this was found to be insufficient, we could also add production bonuses (as per Germany's idea of the "total war"--not that that WORKED, but we can use the idea ;P)

Long wars become tiring, even if they were justified in the beginning. After some point, all war exuberance should wear off and turn into war weariness.

Finally, to mimic dogpiling in multiplayer games, there should also be war exuberance for one good civ helping its ally in a war.

What do you think? Could this be feasible?

It sounds like the bannors crusade which gives -75% war weariness, +25% military production at +2 happiness.
 
I have some other questions, (waiting for Fire release is beginning to be unsustainable ;) )

-Have Sheaim particular features or bonuses linked to the Armageddon counter, considering that their theme of existence is making Armageddon happen?
-What will be the role of Bannor in this new context?
-Hell tiles are unusable for civs, isn't it? On the contrary Infernals can have productive tiles only on Hell tiles, or Hell tiles are unusable (if they are) also for Infernals?
 
The new warscript mechanics sounds promising. It will set a more "logical" pattern to the way AI declares war to other civs. I like the dynamic aspect it will have since it will be influenced by the armageddon counter.

What kind of rewards will there be for good civs to save the world, as you put it? Right now, there are a lot of incentives for evil civs to do evil deeds, which is great since it adds so much flavor to the game. However, it would be nice for good civs to get goodies for doing good deeds (like stopping the bad guys)

It would be nice to play a good civ for a change ;)
 
I have some other questions, (waiting for Fire release is beginning to be unsustainable ;) )

-Have Sheaim particular features or bonuses linked to the Armageddon counter, considering that their theme of existence is making Armageddon happen?

The Sheaim have access to a repeatable ritual that allows them to increase the

-What will be the role of Bannor in this new context?

Crusading, as they did before. But I think its a more interesting environment for the Bannor.

-Hell tiles are unusable for civs, isn't it? On the contrary Infernals can have productive tiles only on Hell tiles, or Hell tiles are unusable (if they are) also for Infernals?

They are usable. We will need playtest feedback before we start to really mess with the tiles. Since they kill all of the forests their is a significant health drop when hell terrain moves into your area.
 
The new warscript mechanics sounds promising. It will set a more "logical" pattern to the way AI declares war to other civs. I like the dynamic aspect it will have since it will be influenced by the armageddon counter.

What kind of rewards will there be for good civs to save the world, as you put it? Right now, there are a lot of incentives for evil civs to do evil deeds, which is great since it adds so much flavor to the game. However, it would be nice for good civs to get goodies for doing good deeds (like stopping the bad guys)

It would be nice to play a good civ for a change ;)

There is a new victory condition that is only available to good and neutral civs. And if you get close to completeing it all the evil civs in the game will dogpile you. :mischief:
 
I think he means good and neutral.
 
Back
Top Bottom