Sadly then this is not a problem that exist solely with Civ6/Firaxis/Take2, but it is in fact a growing trend of continually cutting one more slice of the privacy sausage for each new EULA (ie. 'reserving the right' to collect and use more and more private data from the customer) that is applied by many companies - and that should be a cause for concern for everyone it affects.
Legal agreements are for protecting yourself. I don't like singing away my private data but it might be the only way to get companies to spend money to develop games and not worry about losing there shirt with a lawsuit. It's a lot more difficult the people realized not to collect data when your entire business is online. I doubt they want/can afford to spend money to audit there data collection processes.
Is there a recent change to the EULA that people don't like? Or are people just whining about it now for some reason? Or are the complaints not new? (I really don't want to wade into the Steam forums to try to figure out what's going on.)
What is being complained about in particular is this part of Take2's EULA:
Spoiler:
The types of information collected in connection with the activities listed above will vary depending on the activity. The information we collect may include personal information such as your first and/or last name, e-mail address, phone number, photo, mailing address, geolocation, or payment information. In addition, we may collect your age, gender, date of birth, zip code, hardware configuration, console ID, software products played, survey data, purchases, IP address and the systems you have played on. We may combine the information with your personal information and across other computers or devices that you may use. Prize winners may be required to provide additional information for prize fulfillment.
Naturally I understand why this appears alarming for anyone reading it. However, this part only applies if you're doing anything of the following:
Spoiler:
Registration for Online Services, websites, jobs, products, contests, and special events;
Subscribing to newsletters or alerts;
Posting in or commenting on our message boards, forums, news blogs, chat rooms, or other Online Services;
Purchasing a product or services through our online stores;
Purchasing downloadable content, virtual items, or virtual currency for use with our software and/or Online Services;
Using "tell a friend," "email this page," or other E-Card features;
Requesting technical support;
Downloading demos, programs, or other software;
Participating in polls, surveys, and questionnaires; or
Otherwise through use of our software, including console products, mobile products, and personal computer products, and through the use of our online products or Online Services where personal information is required for use and/or participation.
They make a distinction between personal information and gaming information, and these are the occasions, like winning a contest or applying for a job, in which personal information can be shared. They have to put this in their EULA in order to legally receive any information you may send them.
When you're merely playing the game, they receive gaming information:
Spoiler:
When you use products or services on internet-capable hardware, the Company may receive information regarding your gameplay without any additional notice to you or actions taken by you. The Company will not receive personal information such as your name and address, but may receive other information such as a console ID, gaming service ID, game achievements, game scores and performance, IP address, MAC address, or other device ID, other console/device use information, or other information and statistics regarding your usage of the games
Legal agreements are for protecting yourself. I don't like singing away my private data but it might be the only way to get companies to spend money to develop games and not worry about losing there shirt with a lawsuit. It's a lot more difficult the people realized not to collect data when your entire business is online. I doubt they want/can afford to spend money to audit there data collection processes.
There is also a legal statute in most jurisdictions that you are not able to sign your rights away, for obvious reasons. So for instance I couldn't agree to be a slave, by signing a piece of paper. It is why those permission slips for kids at school are/were a nonsense. The school is liable for any negligence or harm befalling the child due to it. If the harm is not due to negligence, they can't be sued anyway.
So the fact that you signed these EULA agreements are irrelevant. If they lose your data, which can only be due to negligence, they can still be slapped with a billion dollar lawsuit. If I was an IT guy for these companies, I would be advising any company to stay away from collecting this kind of data. This could trigger a company-ending event, for really very little gain. Trouble is, these companies are now being run by not very bright sales/finance people, instead of technical experts the way they used to be.
What is being complained about in particular is this part of Take2's EULA:
Spoiler:
The types of information collected in connection with the activities listed above will vary depending on the activity. The information we collect may include personal information such as your first and/or last name, e-mail address, phone number, photo, mailing address, geolocation, or payment information. In addition, we may collect your age, gender, date of birth, zip code, hardware configuration, console ID, software products played, survey data, purchases, IP address and the systems you have played on. We may combine the information with your personal information and across other computers or devices that you may use. Prize winners may be required to provide additional information for prize fulfillment.
Naturally I understand why this appears alarming for anyone reading it. However, this part only applies if you're doing anything of the following:
Spoiler:
Registration for Online Services, websites, jobs, products, contests, and special events;
Subscribing to newsletters or alerts;
Posting in or commenting on our message boards, forums, news blogs, chat rooms, or other Online Services;
Purchasing a product or services through our online stores;
Purchasing downloadable content, virtual items, or virtual currency for use with our software and/or Online Services;
Using "tell a friend," "email this page," or other E-Card features;
Requesting technical support;
Downloading demos, programs, or other software;
Participating in polls, surveys, and questionnaires; or
Otherwise through use of our software, including console products, mobile products, and personal computer products, and through the use of our online products or Online Services where personal information is required for use and/or participation.
They make a distinction between personal information and gaming information, and these are the occasions, like winning a contest or applying for a job, in which personal information can be shared. They have to put this in their EULA in order to legally receive any information you may send them.
When you're merely playing the game, they receive gaming information:
Spoiler:
When you use products or services on internet-capable hardware, the Company may receive information regarding your gameplay without any additional notice to you or actions taken by you. The Company will not receive personal information such as your name and address, but may receive other information such as a console ID, gaming service ID, game achievements, game scores and performance, IP address, MAC address, or other device ID, other console/device use information, or other information and statistics regarding your usage of the games
My question is, is any of this new? I know they had data collection stuff in there for a while; has any of it changed? If not, why is it suddenly a big deal now?
Which of these (just to name the 2 most obvious ones) are you in doubt about being included by when you are buying Civ6 and DLCs for Civ6 online?
Or are you saying that you are somehow able to not supply any personal information when doing that online? Or have you found a legal way to obtain Civ6 that does not require online activity?
EDIT: Sorry nm, I thought you were asking what the problem was when you were in fact answering someone else. My bad ... but my point still stands! =)
My question is, is any of this new? I know they had data collection stuff in there for a while; has any of it changed? If not, why is it suddenly a big deal now?
It's not new, and I'm fairly sure none of that has been changed recently. As to why it's resurfaced and become such a storm now, your guess is as good as mine.
It's not new, and I'm fairly sure none of that has been changed recently. As to why it's resurfaced and become such a storm now, your guess is as good as mine.
Echo chamber, I guess? We had a thread about it here, I assume it also popped on Reddit/2k forums. Once it gets traction, it spreads faster than people can fact-check and calm the masses. Modern media in a nutshell.
It is why those permission slips for kids at school are/were a nonsense. The school is liable for any negligence or harm befalling the child due to it. If the harm is not due to negligence, they can't be sued anyway.
Anyone can be sued the key is to make sure you have a defence so you don't lose, permission slips gather important information that shows you are not negligent. A good permission slip will gather information to make a trip / event safer:-
This type of corporate response drive me nuts. "We've passed your inquiry on to our legal department" is perfectly fine, even ideal as a response. "Contact our legal department" suggests a culture of treating the customer as a problem.
Anyone can be sued the key is to make sure you have a defence so you don't lose, permission slips gather important information that shows you are not negligent. A good permission slip will gather information to make a trip / event safer:-
You know, after I first heard of this I rolled eyes 'yeah another hysteria'. Then I read about the subject and actually felt uneasy. On top of it several people maintain that install folders of civ6 contain files tracking you even when not playing the game, and others - that eula conflicts with new EU data protection law.
I don't know if these claims are true, and whether this EULA is new or has has al been here, but 2k games definitely dropped the ball with handling this.
Other than this, negative Steam reviews say "good expansion but not for 40 price tag" which is debatable but not irrational, 40 is a lot, and resurfaced issue with Chinese players being angry that they don't get major expansions for free as in already included in Deluxe edition lol. Maybe there was some translation fail here.
Anyone can be sued the key is to make sure you have a defence so you don't lose, permission slips gather important information that shows you are not negligent. A good permission slip will gather information to make a trip / event safer:-
Yeah, it is the "permission" part to do certain activities which are useless. A lot of schools don't do them now, but you still see a few about sport, where they tell you football is a contact sport and can cause serious injury, then ask for your permission for the kid to do the sport. All I am saying is that the "permission" is useless if a coach runs the kid up and down in the hot sun without giving them water and the kid dies. The coach is still negligent. And if the kid takes a regular hit and is injured, without any negligence from the coaches, the parents are not going to be able to sue, even if there isn't a permission slip.
The same is true with 2K, it doesn't matter what permission you give them, if they are negligent with your data, or anyone uses it for illegal purposes, or sell it on, they can be sued. For an example, if a misguided charity volunteer at 2K gets the bright idea to contact the people with the best PC rigs (i.e. assumed to be the richest), for charity donations and starts ringing them up, 2K are potentially looking at a billion dollar law suit, not just the individual involved.
For any corporate entity with brains that should be too much of a risk.
I agree. I think a lot of corporations still have a disconnect at the senior level, where they're thinking "make sure we're covered off on the privacy rights thing" instead of thinking "stop collecting personal data we don't need, it's just going to cause trouble".
I hope there is at least one civ player that belongs to major hacking group, and that they break in into 2K, get the personal data of millions of players and dump it the web. That would teach them a lesson.
I'm mostly annoyed because people are being silly to get upset (at best), and bad enough reviews could damage performance enough to put a damper on a third expansion or more DLC content.
Frankly Firaxis needs the competition. They threw only a minimal bone to end user experience, years after the game released, after neglecting it for a decade.
The reason for the bad reviews kind of annoys me but whatever.
I hope there is at least one civ player that belongs to major hacking group, and that they break in into 2K, get the personal data of millions of players and dump it the web. That would teach them a lesson.
Why would you hope such a thing? There is a huge problem today with people who get butthurt about something (usually without good cause) and then make it their mission to get their 'revenge' while screwing over everyone else. Like asshats who DDoS MMORPGs, which has a negative impact to hundreds of thousands of players.
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