First demigods

[TruePurple]

I attacked and quickly conquered the persia town with spices, its surrounded by germany and with their culture pressure gone germany pushes in, but the flip isn't too high. Then sued for peace when I could. The point is, instead of trading my incense for their spice, I now trade spice with zulu for about 40gpt a turn. Now persia hates me, but it seems worth it to me. Don't you think?

I got to the modern age and gifted russia with enough tech so it would get to the modern age and get a free tech. I then tried to trade the 3 optional techs for the modern tech. But no, it wanted a ton of money, and I mean ALLOT. I thought to myself, no way. So I went to war with russia. I took one of its cities, was rather afraid of taking the other one. I got them down to 75 gold for the tech. I figure another turn or two of being parked out side their only city and whittling on their forces with cannon and troops. (using cannon to tell how many troops are left so I don't accidentally take the city) and steam power will be mine!

Should I zero research nationalism or medicine? Well anyways after my war with russia, I figure I'd spark a war with germany via tech stealing. I got a MPP from zulu for about 70 gold after my war with persia. I should still have a few turns left by the time I settling things with russia.

Oh, and I triggered a golden age when I captured the persia city with my UU filled army. Not sure if thats "too early". But I got allot of gold now. On my last few turns of it.

 

[vmxa]

I am confused by the term modern tech. If you do not have steam, you are not in the modern age, so what does modern tech mean. I have no context.

I know it could mean anything more advanced that some previous tech, but that does not define anything to me.

I can't recall where the different Persian towns are, so I am not sure about that situation. I recall some were on the land with Zulu, but I am not sure about others.

So if it is on your landmass, it is fine.

Gifting tech to move a scientific civ into the next age can be handy. I take you mean the Industrial age or has the game moved way past the last save?

 

[TruePurple]

Well I resorted to a little earlier save since my game was late at night and I had allowed a number of riotes to happen, in a golden age no less.

Yeah I mean industrial. Sorry I used the wrong term.

Persia has a island of resources I want to take over. But I didn't want to drag on the war with them quite that long. Plus I know that If I do, germany will attack. See I don't want zulu fighting Persia and taking over their wonderful resources. So I must wait till my war with persia is over to sign a MPP with zulu.

 

[vmxa]

It is only my perspective, but I prefer to eliminate civs, when they are down to a couple of towns. The reason is that the reseach formula allows for the fact that X number of civs are in the game. So if that number shrinks it make tech cost less for you and more for them and hence slows down the pace.

I see you are online so I am putting up these post individually so you may see them, rather than taking a lot longer and you maybe have left.

 

[vmxa]

Should I zero research nationalism or medicine? Well anyways after my war with russia, I figure I'd spark a war with germany via tech stealing. I got a MPP from zulu for about 70 gold after my war with persia. I should still have a few turns left by the time I settling things with russia.

Oh, and I triggered a golden age when I captured the persia city with my UU filled army. Not sure if thats "too early". But I got allot of gold now. On my last few turns of it.

Last one first. I do not see any problem with any GA at any point where I have lots of cities. I would however have liked to held off, since you waited so long. China is great as is France for being able to not trigger.

The ideal would be to use it either if you get into a race for a Wonder or during any war with the Zulu.

I do not reseach Nationalism, unless I am coasting or in trouble. My thinking is that it is an optional tech and so I skip them when I can. It provides Rifles, and I would rather hang tough for Infantry. It will slow down my shot at the ToE and I will do nothing to cause that (as long as I have a shot).

Now at Sid, it is not an issue the ToE wil be done before I get to that age anyway.

When I would go for Nat: no resources for units either just prior to rifles or one after and I am going to be pressed. I am really being pressed now and a) rifles will lower my losses b) I need to go into mobilization.

Ignore this comment, but I just had a flash of my daughter. She is always asking for advice and then never takes any of it. It came to mind because we are now tlaking about what to research, when I was suggested to do no research.

That just cracked me up anyway they are just ideas and if they fit use them, if not disregard them. The point is to give you more to consider, not necessarily to follow.

Now kick some butts.

 

[homeyg]

Stupid me, I think as it explodes into 5 or 6 barbs.

The max. is 3, FYI.

 

[TruePurple]

Last one first. I do not see any problem with any GA at any point where I have lots of cities. I would however have liked to held off, since you waited so long. China is great as is France for being able to not trigger.

Except i needed my UU army to capture the persias spice town quickly. And doing do gaurentees a GA. The sooner I capture that town, the sooner I get an additional 36gpt. Which is a nice sum that can be used for tech stealing etc. What do you think?

I need to go into mobilization.

Thats a big one. Mobilization means much better performance in war. Especially since I've already built up most of my towns. It also leads to espionage and as you know, I need to be able to steal tech, even when at war.

Now kick some butts.

Thanks, and thanks for the advice

 

[vmxa]

Except i needed my UU army to capture the persias spice town quickly. And doing do gaurentees a GA. The sooner I capture that town, the sooner I get an additional 36gpt. Which is a nice sum that can be used for tech stealing etc. What do you think?

Yeah, I said I have no problem with a GA at that point. Only if I had my druthers, but I do not always get that option. I have had to go GA in the first 40 turns before.

You do what you can. Looking ofrward to some reports on the progress.

 

[TruePurple]

Got steam out of russia. I think Ill keep russia around for rangling out modern tech as well. Maybe give back one of the cities I took. Now that I got that done with, I can work on starting a war between zulu/me and germany via tech stealing. Got to wait till my resource deal with germany ends. That deal allowed me to glide through my GA with lux at zero.

Oh, Germany does have flight. It used it to try to bomb my privateer (missed though)

Heres a current save

P.S. Whats a druther?

 

[gmaharriet]

P.S. Whats a druther?

It's a sort of slang elision of the phrase, "I'd rather". There was even a song written using it many, many years ago..."If I had my druthers, I'd druther have my druthers than anything else at all." Oh, boy, I'm really showing my age with that!!!

 

[TruePurple]

Age is a good thing, A badge of honor, because if you've lived well and are smart it means wisdom It also means your a surviver.

BTW, I can make a iron works factory tsingto, the city with my FP!

Also, Zulu just declared war on Germany without me having to do a thing! Now I wonder if my MPP requires me to declare war on Germany. I wonder if that will break trade trust if it happens before our resource trade is over. If I don't have to go to war right now despite the MPP, I wonder if I should attack persia when the pact is up. Maybe take their resource island for trading. Maybe delaying risking provoking germany by stealing its tech.

 

[vmxa]

I am not even sure why I used the term, it is not one I tend to use, but I am old. My daughter will be 38 next week.

IW is one I tend not to make as I usually do not have the option and if I do, it will probably be in some corrupt town. Even if that turns out to not be the case, I dislike to pollution, but it can have its place under the right conditions.

As to the war, your MPP does require you to declare. I am not sure how long you can go without doing it and not have a repurcussion. If the trade is a matter of a few turns away and you need the item (forget what the trade involved), then wait.

I can't recall the mechanics of it, but I would expect a msg to say something about your obligation to declare. I tend not to make MPP's.

IF you can now do without the item and are prepared to defend, then now is the time.

Issues:

If you have no bomber defense and they have many of them, it will be painful.

If the Zulu do not come at Germany hard, you will bare the brunt.

If they do come and you are hurting Germany, Zulu could get a nice foothold.

More I am sure than just the few that come quickly to mind. The hard part from my perspective is not having been in the game, I have a warped perspective and do not have a feel for the flow.

That is to say, I would normally expect to have a sense of what would be the right way to go, but as an outsider looking in, I do not have that.

I am against going on a real war effort with someone on another landmass, while I have someone still on my land. It means not being able to send as many units as I could.

I am big on clearing all civs off my land asap. Now all the war take place primarily on their land. Now if something goes wrong, all I lost was troops, not cities.

I would not renew any MPP after this as there will hopefully be no one left of any interest other than the Zulu.

 

[Bartleby]

...your MPP does require you to declare. I am not sure how long you can go without doing it and not have a repurcussion. If the trade is a matter of a few turns away and you need the item (forget what the trade involved), then wait.

I can't recall the mechanics of it, but I would expect a msg to say something about your obligation to declare...

The MPP is triggered when one of the MPP parties is attacked in their own territory, or if enemy units end their turn in your MPP buddy's territory.

edit: There is a message, and you can't get out of declaring.

 

[vmxa]

We know about the attack issue, what I was trying to recall is what if a war was declared and no troops went for some period of time, by any one?

I thought I had gotten a request from an MPP civ to say something like "we expect you to honor your MPP". I am just not sure if that was another game or what?

It has been some time since I had any MPP's at a point where war came down. If I have one it is usually one I got in the expectation of a war and wanting the MPP to come in on my side.

Anyway I hope I made it plain, I do not have any authoritative answer as to what can be gotten away with.

I do seem to recall that not declaring, while having MPP's in the past, but I could be confused.

 

[TruePurple]

Had to do some cheating.

Well I knew to expect war shortly with Germany, but forgot about it and had to revert a turn.

[tab]Then I tried to steal tech safely, and got war instead. So I reverted back to save again and tried 3 times, not detected but no tech, the forth time I got war , all safely (had a good deal of gold from golden age by then) Then I reverted back to save again and failed to get a single tech, only war. Finally with a last revert I get two techs in a row and made it to replaceable parts and quickly upgraded some defensive units to infantry, the only way I could survive the assault by the Germans the next turn. That and counting on the fact that the AI doesn't usually attack armies.

[tab]It send allot of Calvary(30-40 I think), I had built up some calvary of my own by then and managed to chew up these units a bit. The AI too stupid to have protected its calvary with infantry. Now its a knock down drag out, with me barely hanging on by my fingertips.

[tab]As far as 50 turn researching and stealing tact goes, seems you have to consider the high chance of failure in the cost. I think success might only be around 50%, maybe only around 33%. If you choose safely, you get a 50% chance of not getting caught if you fail to get the tech. Not sure on those numbers. But its a pretty good chance of failure. So to figure the cost of stealing, you got to double the safely stealing numbers making it like ~4500. I really think it would have been better for me (and maybe cheaper too) to simply directly research the tech.

In any rate, I need spies, so I plan to research that tech after I finish slow researching nationalism.

 

[TruePurple]

I've been battling the germans for awhile now. They offer peace for gpt (about 30 or so) I wonder if I should take it and go after persia. Persia offers Germany a few resources. And I could make more gold using its resources to trade with the Zulu. The Zulu are still at war with the Germans and have been bombing them. They have also taken over one of germanies island cities.

 

[vmxa]

It is not uncommon to be able to raise enough money to try 3 or 4 steals in the time it would have taken to research one tech. This means that any reasonable luck should see you come out ahead.

I would expect to get techs faster by stealing, than by research on high levels, if I was down many techs. Now DG is a level that I should be able to get to a position where I can research faster than the AI.

The problem in your game was you were not there at that time and the clock was running. You have two choices, one win by trimming them to the point they cannot out do you and two getting enough land to out produce them.

Not sure you had time for number two. If the war went for 20 turns and you do not have Germany to the point that it about to expire, you just were not aggressive enough.

When I looked at the save originally posted, it seemed the game was still winnable with no reloads, but it required taking fast action and being aggressive.

Once a KAI gets going and it has flight in C3C, the game will be rough. The AI will use bombers in numbers, if you let them. Invasions will be very very nasty.

You have to make a large stack of ships to absorb all the bombs, you have to have destroyers to fan out to get any subs. Subs can select their target and will sink transports. Once you land you have to be able to shot down bombers to slow them from killing of your armies.

It is all doable, but you have to prepare and some luck is also good. Nothing more disheartening than to see bomber after bomber not get hit.

 

[TruePurple]

Whats KAI?

If the war went for 20 turns and you do not have Germany to the point that it about to expire

What do you mean "about to expire"? You mean nearly completely wipped out? Considering the battle was of infantry calvary and gurrila, it was a defensive war anyways, just taking out as many of its troops as I did was an accomplishment. Meanwhile germany would be paying me for peace, when that expires I can steal tech again (since I wouldn't be at war with them).

Also persia got nationalism, which I was able to trade for tech they didn't have. Unfortunitely I had been slow researching nationalism and was at turn 14 or so of the 50. But at least this means I'll have espionage by the end of the peace treaty and can use it to steal more tech when its up.

Meanwhile I can take out persia, selling its horses to germany during times of peace, Also take out its cap, which is filled with wonders and vulnerable to zulu attack and taking over those wonders.(especially the sun tzhu) Plus they are currently at war with the zulu, who have unfortunately already reached modern (and would easily take over Germany with my plugging at them too)

Unfortunately zulu won by VP, but I'm playing anyways to see if I can recover and wipe out the zulu anyways.

 

[vmxa]

That is what I meant, you did not have time to wait. In the end, you must clear your landmass as soon as you can do it. Do not be thinking about deals and research.

IOW I would never consider keeping civs around to get a tech or GPT. I have to have all my landmass to have a chance to win. Any delay will only help the AI and hurt me.

Yes by turn 20 of the war, you needed to have them reduce to a few cities and be poised to take those. No stopping for peace and techs. It does not matter what the weapons were, you just have to have enough of them and concentrate them. Be for replacing those lost or needed for MP duty.

 

[TruePurple]

IOW? KAI?

Look, germany is keeping the zulu busy, (and visa versa) If I were to have kept that battle going, I'd only have allowed zulus to take over more area. I needed breathing room to recoop troops, set things up to hold off invasion (fortresses every other space at border and reapply railroads and such) and tech to make a decisive win and not just one that boosts zulu.

If I could ever repair my rep with germany, I'd like to team up with them to take on the zulu. Is that possible after you've battled a nation?