First draft of Erebus lore

But I'm from New Jersey.

I'd love to spend some time in the tropics and the Mediterranean, but I have no money and no passport. I'll be taking a lot of physics classes in college.

My favorite mythology is the Greek/Roman theories, because (among other reasons), like Erebus, the gods actually did interact with their subjects.

I think the real world is less interesting because we've pretty much got it all figured out. The only things we have left to discover are only really relevant to extreme experts in their fields and have little to do with every-day life. In fantasy worlds there's just so much more to discover- imagine how different society would have evolved if we had these unknown "magical" forces that could bend the fabric of space and time and create a whole new reality. Physics isn't in our control, it is the rules that are already in place, we just need to find out.

Bah. People fall into that mental trap continuously. Always thinking we know everything worth knowing... Think it comes from not being able to handle the idea of death?

Anyway. There is EVERYTHING to discover! We've barely scratched the surface of the universe! We can barely imagine what we'll find in a few hundred years. Or even the next few decades.

Also: No, we can't change physics... But there is nothing in physics that means we can't manipulate spacetime. In fact, one of the most plausible proposals for FTL travel is to compress the fabric of spacetime ahead of the craft, and expand it behind it. Since spacetime is free to expand faster than the speed of light, the craft would essentially be able to surf on a 'wave' of spacetime, traveling faster than light.


Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Carke's third law of Clarke's three laws.


tell that a physicist, a biologist, an astronomer or a medical scientist and they will laugh at you. for sure.


once again wrong. think if physics. most of our knowledge is still pure theory, while of course some of them has a high chance of beeing correct, or near correct. and it has pretty much to do with the every-day life. there are many, many examples of it. think of all that luxury were enjoying today. i prefer living more than 50 years. not 300 years ago getting older happed rarely.
we just dont realize, because the human brain tends to simply ignore things we dont understand (otherwise pretty much of society and politics would just not work ;) ... especially religion! ouch! hot topic! )
which takes us to the second detail: you need to train your brain to start questioning. which is work. much work. acquiring knowledge is work. which is another reason why not everybody is an explorer, inventor and so on, its not as easy as depicted in movies. real exploring often takes months, weeks of often boring, everyday-the-same research.


for many people its 'easier' to be creative than logical or researching. (although easier shouldnt be mistaken as less worth here)
you wrote it yourself - imagine.
when, what you call 'discovering' is working its mostly your creative part of the brain that is working, filling all that stuff you hear with more stuff coming from yourself. thats how entertainment, especially fantasy and soft science-fiction works, books would be four times as long telling every detail, its the stories that fill your brain and vice-versa the brain that fills the stories.
when imaginating you can think of what you think is true or not true, whatever. while working on real stuff you cant just say 'oh it was that way? - na i prefer it that way. from now on the aztecs have invented flying space-crafts. because i prefer it that way!'
research is something that goes slow and hard.


you need to find out how the game works before you can play it. while much of the future will surely not work the way star trek etc. show it, someday we will be able to bend reality in a limited way as we are already doing it, maybe not that far away from some of the ideas of science-fiction.
who would have thought 10 years ago a computer would fit into a thin plate of metal not wider than a book?
that doesnt sound phenomal because were used to it. not 100 years ago much of the stuff were using today would have looked like pure magic to the people. which brings us to the citation i put on the start. but in some way - it alters reality. the reality we have been used to.

im sorry if anything i wrote isnt understandable, writing that many english at once im sometimes using wrong phrasing and that stuff.

:goodjob:
 
Not in any way, no.

It's not something any of you will guess, unless you've read EXACTLY the right books, and have the thought in your mind already.

It's fairly unique. :p


I'm starting to wonder if one of the books that might have to be read is by a certain South African born, British author.
 
In fact, one of the most plausible proposals for FTL travel is to compress the fabric of spacetime ahead of the craft, and expand it behind it. Since spacetime is free to expand faster than the speed of light, the craft would essentially be able to surf on a 'wave' of spacetime, traveling faster than light.

Hmm warp ... but i thing we just have to find Asgards and get from them Hyperspace engine and few ZPMs :D
 
Bah! What's the point of technology that's GIVEN to you?

We need to discover it ourselves, truly understand the principles of how it works. Otherwise, we lose our identity and are subsumed into another culture. That is exactly what has happened in every 'first contact' on Earth.

I agree. if we are just given a new tech then whats left to make us stand out and be "human"? we must first discover it ourselves and personalize it all from the get go or we will just become assimilated into an others culture or become subservient to those who hold power greater than our own. And the human race as a whole does not function well being a pawn for others as history has shown.
 
I agree. if we are just given a new tech then whats left to make us stand out and be "human"? we must first discover it ourselves and personalize it all from the get go or we will just become assimilated into an others culture or become subservient to those who hold power greater than our own. And the human race as a whole does not function well being a pawn for others as history has shown.

:goodjob:

That's one reason I like Brin's Earth Clan books... Yes, Earth is contacted by a galactic society, but due to what we did before that ('uplifted' Chimps and Dolphins, making them intelligent) they had to accept us as equals according to their own laws.

Humanity gets access to a huge database of technology... But rather than use artificial gravity they've given us, we use centrifugal wheels, that we developed ourselves. We use their engines, but only after understanding them; We insist on designing our own ships, developing our own spins on things, rather than tacitly relying on a millenia-old library.

I'd hope that Humanity would develop that way, rather than take the simple path. ;)
 
I'd hope that Humanity would develop that way, rather than take the simple path. ;)

I don't think that's very likely though. :sad:

And ultimately the fate of mankind after the First Contact would likely depend on the ethics of the more advanced civilization...
 
Sadly, I agree. People take the easy way out.

Honestly, at the moment I'm not convinced there will be a first contact. Not because other life doesn't exist, either; I think there are a few roadblocks in the way. Put it this way: The universe is 15.5 Billion years old. The Earth is 6.5 Billion. There should be other, older planets, that developed life first. However...

Our race, in it's anatomically modern form, is ~200000 years old. We did not develop farming until ~10000 years ago. 1/20 of the history of our race. What took so long, if our brains were the same? Once we developed farming, our advancements shot through the roof... And are still doing so, ever faster.

So there's the first of the roadblocks... Actually getting around to developing along a path leading to technology. Dolphins are arguably intelligent; Yet they will never be able to do so. I think getting past that first hurdle may be uncommon, especially as there's a limit to how much intelligence is useful at the level of an animal. Enough to outsmart predators, to cooperate with your troop/pack/whatever.... But chimps are already there. Don't see them developing fire, culture, tools (beyond a few simple things... Though one group has females that use spears, pretty bad ass :lol:). Intelligence just isn't a terribly useful thing, and we likely developed as far as we did because of internal competition, not external; We were smart enough to out think our predators and hunt our prey, but extremely competitive. We developed intelligence because we were competing with ourselves.

This leads to the next hurdle, which we are now facing... If it is primarily those who are competitive, aggressive, who become intelligent... War becomes unavoidable. We breed fast enough to replenish losses, of course, but the problem arises when we become sufficiently advanced, as we are now... If the race remains warlike (IE: Advances culturally/scientifically faster than mentally), and begins to develop higher technologies, you reach a point where a small group of determined individuals can destroy the entire species. This is where we are now. This is the final trap that I think many species fall prey to... They kill themselves.

We need to spread, break out of the nest, get past Earth. It is only by establishing populations on other planets/celestial bodies/artificial habitats that we can avoid becoming extinct due to random chance, or the actions of a depraved few.


Why be so sure of all this? Because it is extraordinarily easy to spread across the galaxy. We have all the tech we need to right now. All you need to do is hop from asteroid to asteroid, on out of the Solar System. Our Oort cloud extends light years from the Sun; Incidentally, far enough out that it comes in contact with the clouds around other stars. It may take a few million years to hop like this across the entire galaxy, but again, there could be races billions of years old out there... So why the hell hasn't one of them done it?
 
what if we made the first contact?
id rather have us solve our own problems before we start finding out about other beeings depth.

As I said in my post (took a while to write, your post wasn't up yet) I don't think we have time to solve our problems on Earth. Most of those problems can be solved by expanding out into space anyway.

Energy? Orbiting solar collectors. Beam the power down via microwaves, to stations in deserts. Essentially free, limitless energy (free aside from the cost of getting it up there, at least :p). Not possible? It's being planned as we speak, by companies in California, by NASA, by Japan.

Pollution? Manufacturing, for the most part, works better in orbit. Heavy objects can be moved more easily, crystals form near-perfectly, separation of metals from ores works better. So move it all into orbit. Tow asteroids into an orbit, mine them for usable materials (which now ALSO doesn't need to be done on Earth), and use the shells to house industries. Again, planned... Give it a hundred years or so. Earth can be the garden, while we continue to advance ourselves.

War? This one may well be inevitable, but I'm not so sure, aside from smallish wars for independence (inevitable, colonies always reach a point where they want independence, hopefully it follows the path of the British Dominions rather than America, there; Peacefully). Expansion and colonization allows people to unite under a common banner, to compete (mostly) peacefully with enemies. The Space Race probably averted a war with the USSR.

Inequality? Again, space. The poor have somewhere to go, to earn money, make their lives better... Same deal with America in the 1800 and 1900's. For that matter, with energy being cheap, those that remain behind would be able to afford it, to make their countries prosperous.
 
what if we made the first contact?
id rather have us solve our own problems before we start finding out about other beeings depth.

Also, keep in mind he never said we would be the less advanced civilization. We may find that our first contact is with a race still in the bronze age... In which case, our fate, our 'soul' if you would, depends on our own morals.
 
mhm. that sounds just too easy. people are different, and expanding into the space will not make us any more equal, it will widen the differences, thus giving humanity more reasons to kill each other for. and enough rescources isnt a good start either. there will always be asteroid fields better than others, planets that are more habitable than others, colonies that will have more access luxury ressources than others.
or you just dont like the other ones look/believe.
if theres one thing a human is VERY good at... its to find a reason to smash anothers ones head. its because the problem doesnt lie outside but within the human himself.

i agree about the part that we actually already have the technology, but in our societies, in the government and nation systems humanity as whole follows right now, theres no way we will ever use that potential soon. just think of the money
na, im not a communist giving the money all the blame, but its such a wonderful system feeding some others of our greatest skills: envy and greed.
 
mhm. that sounds just too easy. people are different, and expanding into the space will not make us any more equal, it will widen the differences, thus giving humanity more reasons to kill each other for. and enough rescources isnt a good start either. there will always be asteroid fields better than others, planets that are more habitable than others, colonies that will have more access luxury ressources than others.
or you just dont like the other ones look/believe.
if theres one thing a human is VERY good at... its to find a reason to smash anothers ones head. its because the problem doesnt lie outside but within the human himself.

i agree about the part that we actually already have the technology, but in our societies, in the government and nation systems humanity as whole follows right now, theres no way we will ever use that potential soon. just think of the money
na, im not a communist giving the money all the blame, but its such a wonderful system feeding some others of our greatest skills: envy and greed.

I actually agree. But like I said... We have to get off Earth, or we will die. If not to ourselves, than to the universe. It is a statistical certainty that the Earth will be hit again... and again. And even if we survive that, eventually the sun will die... But the Earth will become like Venus FAR before that.

It is my hope that if we get off Earth, it will give the race (or at least some part of the vastly varied grouping it will become) the time needed for our instincts to catch up to our minds, for us to be able to shed the aspects of ourselves that makes war, ultimately, inevitable.

Also... Like I said in my first post, I'm pretty sure it's that envy and greed that made us intelligent in the first place. :lol:
 
Also... Like I said in my first post, I'm pretty sure it's that envy and greed that made us intelligent in the first place. :lol:

Valkrionn said:
This leads to the next hurdle, which we are now facing... If it is primarily those who are competitive, aggressive, who become intelligent... War becomes unavoidable. We breed fast enough to replenish losses, of course, but the problem arises when we become sufficiently advanced, as we are now... If the race remains warlike (IE: Advances culturally/scientifically faster than mentally), and begins to develop higher technologies, you reach a point where a small group of determined individuals can destroy the entire species. This is where we are now. This is the final trap that I think many species fall prey to... They kill themselves.
actually overred that part the first time somehow. too much letters to stare at a display for :D
yeah, absolutely agree on that part (that we NEED to get off earth if we want to survive), especially the last one. while i still have the hope that, before anything else happens we
1.)get the technology hat allows us to develop mentally, controlling (while not surpressing of course) emotion, etc.
the whole bunch of that stuff.
2.)find a way to 'enlighten' (uh-oh!) the ones dont like that evolution of mind, out of fear, prejudice or whatever. because either way, it will be a drastical change and we live in a world were the great scientist who will some day say 'hey, i found a clean way to control emotion and reduce hate!' will be burned at the stake before he even speaks the sentence to the end.
this way hoping 'nature' brings this change on her own, naturally and slowly is surely something preferable, but maybe not available.
its a snake that bites its own tail. hoping to find a technology that will allow us to judge morally blameless while at the same time devoloping such a technology, or researching on the human brain as whole, always bears the mark of actually not beeing morally blameless.
 
On the technology... Eh. Directly manipulating the brain could have vastly different results than what we want; Everything is linked.

Better way would be a way to link minds via machine (not permanent, rather like the internet really :p). Such as in Mindkiller. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindkiller
 
On the technology... Eh. Directly manipulating the brain could have vastly different results than what we want; Everything is linked.

one day we'll find out to push the right puttons without turning the testee into salmon :rolleyes:
btw, direct manipulation was just an example. if the internet, or something alike, manages to turn us into nietzsche's übermensch im okay with it. but at the moment, the vastest effect of the internet is to keep a billion peoples right hand busy :>
 
Ah, something I neglected to mention in my post that I should have... One of the other traps I think civilizations fall into.

Computers.

Why? Think about it. With advanced enough computers (and ours may get there faster than you'd think...), and a high neuro-science (which we are beginning to develop), you may be able to transfer a person's consciousness into a computer. The person would effectively become immortal, a god in their own world. I think it is far too likely that entire civilizations would fall prey to this.

I also think it's something our species should avoid. There is no fulfillment in accomplishing things when you control everything. We deserve better than that. :p
 
Kipling? No, not that I know of. More modern.



Kipling was born in British India. Not South Africa <_<



The author I'm thinking of is a bit more famous than Kipling, I think. At least they would be in the circles that visit these boards.
 
Ah, something I neglected to mention in my post that I should have... One of the other traps I think civilizations fall into.

Computers.

Why? Think about it. With advanced enough computers (and ours may get there faster than you'd think...), and a high neuro-science (which we are beginning to develop), you may be able to transfer a person's consciousness into a computer. The person would effectively become immortal, a god in their own world. I think it is far too likely that entire civilizations would fall prey to this.

I also think it's something our species should avoid. There is no fulfillment in accomplishing things when you control everything. We deserve better than that. :p



Meh. I'm happy to pass on the mind-to- machine living forever. I'd be happy with clinical immortality.
 
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