First Impressions: I kind of hate playing Millennia.

If you offer a treaty and next turn the AI accepts, the yields from the treaty are shown, they are visible in the diplomatic screen with the checkmark and also in the tooltip of the respective yield, see my commercial treaty with Greece:

Spoiler :

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If it indeed shows zero, maybe you've fell out, maybe they declared hostilities?
I haven't tried the Wealth one, but both Knowledge and Culture ones aren't working (we're in alliance and no hostilities. It should give +7,46, but gives 0). It must be a bug I'm afraid.
Spoiler pic :
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I haven't tried the Wealth one, but both Knowledge and Culture ones aren't working (we're in alliance and no hostilities. It should give +7,46, but gives 0). It must be a bug I'm afraid.
Spoiler pic :

Knowledge works fine for me as well in both screens:
Spoiler :

vOHcnRp.jpg


yLSLsen.jpeg



I don't have cultural one atm, but I suspect it would also be fine, so that must be something else here. I don't have alliances with any of them, btw.

Edit: tried cultural one, and it works immediately on the turn of acceptance, it can be seen on the culture tooltip, while the diplomatic screen goes into 3 turn cooldown period before it appears there as well.
 
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I think the game suffers from what everyother game I seem to get near enough to: Great Ideas Executed Poorly (G.I.E.P).

I do like the divergent ages, the goods system, but everything else feels underbaked.

The game does a horrible job at onboarding you on Ages, a player should not feel "frustrated" because of something they didn't know happening (looking at you Ages of Revolution, even though I looked that up and I was still overwhelmed because I think that was just stupid mechanic).

But I think the ideas look pretty but are really shallow.

The Ages, while fun, the triggers are... easy... and uninspired most of the time. Sure I play on the easiest difficulty, but still, the triggers don't particularly feel like effort to get to unlock (except the Age of Heroes unlock, which is mostly RNG).

The lack of control over terrain is actually annoying, the inability to use Hills for anything but Mines and Quarries a sin, while you don't get to cut/clear features until like Age of Renaissance or later (I forget).

The depth of Diplomacy is completely lack luster, just press buttons.

The UX/UI is horrid (as is perfromance), and so much information is hidden (I keep forgetting to upgrade my towns because not a single UI element at a glance gives me that information until I hover over the town itself on the map which can be cumbersome).

This game, could have been amazing, and I can't believe I roped myself into buying the Premium Edition.

I never learn.

I really wanted to love this game.

It's so bizarre to me that Civilization has such a chokehold on this genre and keeps it so well. No one came to challenge and succeeded.
 
It's so bizarre to me that Civilization has such a chokehold on this genre and keeps it so well. No one came to challenge and succeeded.
Because there aren't a lot of companies that would want to invest the resources that it would take to compete with Civ. Civ is complicated game with a lot of depth (though it doesn't always feel like that) and you can't really "bootstrap" your way into success in the video games industry against that kind of game anymore. If a company really wants to make a "Civ Killer"* then they'd need to make the same kind of investment into their game that Firaxis/2K does into Civ** and that mostly sounds like a great way to loose a lot of money. I'd be curious to know that Millennia's staff and budget were because it feels like Paradox/C-Prompt lowballed both.

*Or even just a serious competitor.
**Honestly, they'd probably have to out invest Firaxis/2K.
 
Because there aren't a lot of companies that would want to invest the resources that it would take to compete with Civ. Civ is complicated game with a lot of depth (though it doesn't always feel like that) and you can't really "bootstrap" your way into success in the video games industry against that kind of game anymore. If a company really wants to make a "Civ Killer"* then they'd need to make the same kind of investment into their game that Firaxis/2K does into Civ** and that mostly sounds like a great way to loose a lot of money. I'd be curious to know that Millennia's staff and budget were because it feels like Paradox/C-Prompt lowballed both.

*Or even just a serious competitor.
**Honestly, they'd probably have to out invest Firaxis/2K.
Anybody trying to produce a successful (i.e., many sales, much money) 4X historicalish game like Civ runs into three basic problems:

1. Avoid making the same mistakes that Civ and other such games have already made: no visual identification with the Civ like Humankind, lousy AI as in Civ, late-game micromanagement in everything, etc. Guaranteed you will get called out on that Immediately.

2. Do something to distinguish your game from Civ, which is the 'standard' against which any new game in the genre will be measured. IF your game is simply a Civ Clone, why bother? If you do something wildly new and it is implemented poorly (which, I propose, is Millennia's problem in many ways) it will simply turn gamers back to Civ. This is a very difficult balance to maintain, because of the other problem general to game design:

3. For all the talk of Development Teams, my observation is that most games come down to implementing one Prime Mover's vision of the game. This is, by the way, in ALL gaming. Strategic board games when they started out back in the 1960s and 1970s could be easily identified largely by whether they were designed by Roberts (founder of Avalon-Hill), Jim Dunnigan at Poultroon Press/Simulations Publications, or Frank Chadwick at Game Designer's Workshop. In Computer games, Sid Meyer is the prime example of a Prime Mover who haas influenced an entire genre (4X) of gaming, but Brian, Jon, et al have also made their marks. Some of these people are very, very good at what they do, but as computer games get more complex and demanding, they are starting to exceed one man's capacity to keep everything at the same level of excellence. When you are also trying to avoid multiple pitfalls from previous games and distinguish your game from another, the pressure becomes enormous.

Millennia, as far as I can see, suffers a bit from all three. It makes basic mistakes that could have been avoided just by paying attention to other games; it repeats several Civ mistakes that are very annoying to see come up again; and the final game gives the impression (as others have remarked) that it is not quite finished, and given Paradox's history, makes one fear that we are going to have to pay more to ever get a finished product.
 
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3. For all the talk of Development Teams, my observation is that most games come down to implementing one Prime Mover's vision of the game. This is, by the way, in ALL gaming. Strategic board games when they started out back in the 1960s and 1970s could be easily identified largely by whether they were designed by Roberts (founder of Avalon-Hill), Jim Dunnigan at Poultroon Press/Simulations Publications, or Frank Chadwick at Game Designer's Workshop. In Computer games, Sid Meyer is the prime example of a Prime Mover who haas influenced an entire genre (4X) of gaming, but Brian, Jon, et al have also made their marks. Some of these people are very, very good at what they do, but as computer games get more complex and demanding, they are starting to exceed one man's capacity to keep everything at the same level of excellence. When you are also trying to avoid multiple pitfalls from previous games and distinguish your game from another, the pressure becomes enormous.

Millennia, as far as I can see, suffers a bit from all three. It makes basic mistakes that could have been avoided just by paying attention to other games; it repeats several Civ mistakes that are very annoying to see come up again; and the final game gives the impression (as others have remarked) that it is not quite finished, and given Paradox's history, makes one fear that we are going to have to pay more to ever get a finished product.
Jon what? Jon van Caneghem? Founder of Might and Magic series. which later spun off Heroes of Might and Magic TBS Game (which it later fails when it changed hands to UBISoft, mostly due to bad game designs and bad AI)

And Paradox has a very lousy reputations of launching games that demands players to buy ALL DLCs. also one trademark of Paradox 4Xes are stinging rebellions. they're too annoyings to put down, they came too often, and somethimes they extort players in exchange of not rising up against.
Millennia did repeat one bad mistakes from Civ6; no converged unit lineages whenever it should be. remember that Arquebusiers and Pikemen did NOT Converge into Fusilier (named 'Musket' in this game) in this game while in real life they did. ??
 
Jon what? Jon van Caneghem? Founder of Might and Magic series. which later spun off Heroes of Might and Magic TBS Game (which it later fails when it changed hands to UBISoft, mostly due to bad game designs and bad AI)
My bad. What I get for posting from memory and in a hurry. I was referring to the designers of Civ and some of its derivatives:
Sid Meier - the whole schmear
Brian Reynolds - Civ II, SMAC, Rise of Nations
Soren Johnson - Civ III, Civ IV
 
I agree that the lack of unit convergence or ability to upgrade NS units I jarring. I don’t know much about historical military history, but the modern stuff is patently silly. (My favorite “who writes/draws this stuff” moment was when I zoomed in on a “drone farm” to see quadcopters flying around a farm).

My guess is that the goal is to create ebbs and flows in conquest. I’ve liked that I don’t have to sink too many turns of production into units but this led to a very pike+horse archer military which caused me to welcome peace when Greece started rolling out cannons and arbs, since my research and production are slower and I can’t upgrade my pikes until enlightenment. This balances the fact that once you break an AI’s first wave of armies there isn’t much to stop you otherwise from conquering their entire empire.

A few things I’m excited to mod:

1) give AI a civ-like attack power bonus to units to balance out player tactics.
2) reduce gold reward for capturing small cities, it shouldn’t be enough to offset the chaos fee without taking larger ones
3) increase AI readiness to attack (if there will be any moderately intelligible parameters), since the determinative mistakes the AI made this game were not attacking all-out in the instances where our armies were lined up and mine were damaged. Since I was in my newly captured territory far from my regions this let me heal up, when loosing 30-40% of my units would have broken my advance.

TBH I need to stop letting myself undo scum battles once I learn the mechanics but…

Edit: second game on highest difficulty and the AI is taking us thru the same ages as the first (all regular until Aether, no mill upgrades again:p).
 
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I believe those are emotional responses when you face a new system that you don't know yet very well :)
yeah, just first impressions. Nothing to be taken too seriosly. It seems that the AI will settle for peace quite quickly IF they started the wars and do not gain any momentum. Probably because of unrest. So it is more an issue with the notifications. In Stellaris there is also notification spam but atleast you do not have to click them away. I hope they can improve the UI but it's not a big deal. I picked a different mapscript now and lost a few games to early AI rushes. I like it, the AI seems challenging enough.

The AI have different tags (militant, diplomat, isolationist, etc.) but I have not been able to figure out yet what it exactly does.
 
Yeah, early game AI rush has been quite thrilling. I did not realize in time that towns create 10 wealth, or I would have prioritized getting a second one to support my early game army, units were disbanding left and right. At least you have every incentive to sack improvements, since they are all razed upon taking the city.

I’ll be curious if you find that AI military buildup slows down in mid game. It looks like it to me like it does, with AI having ~4 armies at a time, which isn’t enough to slow down a human player that has 2-3 armies. It’s also possible I kept encountering nations who were fighting in other wars (or that I had recently been in at war with) and had not rebuilt. Getting that number of AI armies to 10+ could create some interesting challenges, I wonder if it’s just a matter of unit upkeep. I think 20 mid games units is costing me ~250 wealth, small for a nation leveraging prosperous vassals.

Also playing my first game getting vassal prosperity up, I finally accept that it helps reduce micromanagement without feeling like I am missing out on what those cities could be doing. The IP and culture yield (and govt and diplo XP with the upgrades) I get from them far exceeds what I’d get from integrating the cities, but in my 3->6 cities I am still having no problem spending every IP that comes in, integrating a new city every time I have too much to spend. Using the wealth to rush buildings also has a nice bonus that I generally simply build each new building unlocked for easy management. If anything the cost for chaos events just needs to scale with the number of vassals so that one of them forces me to let it trigger.
 
Interesting, I should try to use vassals more early on. I did start a lategame war against the strongest AI and it controlled maybe 25% of the world and had about 10 armies. It's biggest advantage was that it had amassed a lot of leaders over time.
 
Knowledge works fine for me as well in both screens:
Spoiler :

vOHcnRp.jpg


yLSLsen.jpeg



I don't have cultural one atm, but I suspect it would also be fine, so that must be something else here. I don't have alliances with any of them, btw.

Edit: tried cultural one, and it works immediately on the turn of acceptance, it can be seen on the culture tooltip, while the diplomatic screen goes into 3 turn cooldown period before it appears there as well.
Really weird... I hope it'll be fixed soon
Spoiler picture :
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How is the new and improved age of plague? I think the team said the made outbreaks easier to locate.
 
How is the new and improved age of plague? I think the team said the made outbreaks easier to locate.
I'm in my first Age of Plague right now (started with the new patch), they are quite easy to locate, there are yellow (later red) "hazardous" icons on the tiles, they are quite big as well, hard to miss. There is also a quick notification when one spawns (the camera jumps there, as if an improvement was built). Don't know how it used to be, but it feels easy to locate them now (easy to forget as well, as there are plenty of them :crazyeye:)
 
True for my current playthrough, but the first one was with a default nation (China). Thanks for the tip tho, I appreciate it! :)
Have you changed the default perk for China in the first game? It would be interesting to narrow this down.
 
I'm in my first Age of Plague right now (started with the new patch), they are quite easy to locate, there are yellow (later red) "hazardous" icons on the tiles, they are quite big as well, hard to miss. There is also a quick notification when one spawns (the camera jumps there, as if an improvement was built). Don't know how it used to be, but it feels easy to locate them now (easy to forget as well, as there are plenty of them :crazyeye:)
Not what it should be. Actually Plage Outbreak should be subjected to turn limitations. and not Full Era struggle.
 
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