first strikes

[sherbz]

This might be in the wrong section. If so then feel free to move it (to ideas and suggestions)

Id like to discuss first strikes. I know what they are and what they do. But am i the only one who thinks they ought to be over hauled in any fture civ game? For starters, they are quite hard to understand. It took me a long while, and a bit of reading before i even knew what they did when i first started playing. The civpedia doesnt explain them hardly at all, and in general their use and meaning remain vague (unlike the combat promotion, which is easy to understand). For me personally, I dont like the ambiguity of first strikes. Is it a denfensive promotion or an attacking one? I also think that the battle graphic should clearly display the value of a first strike (like having your riflemen or archers fire their ammo at a stationary group of units, killing 1 or 2 or them before they advance for instance). Should first strikes (or their replacement) be limited to certain types of units (defensive units like bows for instance) as a promotion that betters the attack of these units? Im not too sure. But i definately think they ought to be changed in a future civ.

 

[TheLazyHase]

For me personally, I dont like the ambiguity of first strikes. Is it a denfensive promotion or an attacking one?

Can't they be both ? I like the fact that you do not choose it because defensive or offensive, neither because of particular unit to destroy, but to fit special task - destroying wounded and weak unit.

For me, the first strike seem clear, because it was more or less doing what I expected, based off other game (Magic for example) andthe counter seemed clear for me (cavalry that come quickly to close quarter, and simply overwhelming unit that can soak the first strike without trouble).

In fact, what puzzle me in civ4 is why defensive unit are archery unit. In civ2 and 3 they were offensive unit (not exactly a good choice BTW), and a bow seem a lot let defensive weapon than a pike. I remenber that at least one time english people used longbow (or crossbow maybe) to utterly destroy the ennemy knight. And it was not exactly in a city.

 

[Chiyochan]

In fact, what puzzle me in civ4 is why defensive unit are archery unit. In civ2 and 3 they were offensive unit (not exactly a good choice BTW), and a bow seem a lot let defensive weapon than a pike. I remenber that at least one time english people used longbow (or crossbow maybe) to utterly destroy the ennemy knight. And it was not exactly in a city.

Because while your infantry where indeed important, when it comes to defending alot of it was done at city walls, and if you have archers or gunners you can sit on the wall and shoot at people while they get to eat blisters and oils, Cities with less fortifications relies more heavily on the surrounding land to intercept than to wait for the battle to come to them.

 

[PieceOfMind]

First strikes can be seen in the battle animations, I think. They look the same as other combat rounds though.

 

[Willem]

First strikes can be seen in the battle animations, I think. They look the same as other combat rounds though.

There is a slight difference. First there's usually a pause, then you see the First Strike unit doing it's thing while the other unit does nothing at all.

 

[Kenjister]

First strikes are best seen when attacking archery units. If you attack with a units that is immune to first strikes, they will engage the archers immediately, but if there are first strikes, the archers will fire of a round (or several) of arrows while the attackers wait and take it.

 

[dworkin]

In fact, what puzzle me in civ4 is why defensive unit are archery unit. In civ2 and 3 they were offensive unit (not exactly a good choice BTW), and a bow seem a lot let defensive weapon than a pike. I remenber that at least one time english people used longbow (or crossbow maybe) to utterly destroy the ennemy knight. And it was not exactly in a city.

If you're thinking of Agincourt the English were in a defensive position on a hill, the French had to squeeze through a (relativly) narrow point and the ground was muddy to the point of being a bog.

In Civ terms the English Longbow was fortified on a hill (+75%) and had training in anti-cavalry tactics (+25%) total 12
The French Knight were understrength from a recent battle and not trained in anti-archer tactics (being primarily anti-cav and shock), Total about 8 ish. He should of waited a turn or sent in some Infantry first

Seriously I find bows a wonderful offensive unit. with the right skills they can equal the melee units running around and don't suffer from being vulnerable to Axe/Mace innate shock skill. They make your attacking stack very hard to harm, protect valuable city raiders and artillary and are no slouches at attacking themselves. And the crossbow unit with it's innate shock skill is even better.

 

[aokces]

Heres my question about First Strikes I never understood - What is the difference between a "First Strike" and a "First Strike Chance"? On the unit display it would display things like "0-2 FS" or just "1 FS". Which is better on average? and by how much? For example, would 2 First Strike Chances have equivalent odds as just 1 First Strike?

 

[PieceOfMind]

Heres my question about First Strikes I never understood - What is the difference between a "First Strike" and a "First Strike Chance"? On the unit display it would display things like "0-2 FS" or just "1 FS". Which is better on average? and by how much? For example, would 2 First Strike Chances have equivalent odds as just 1 First Strike?

First Strikes