First Time Event

timerover51

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Jul 10, 2006
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Chicago area in Illinois
I was playing on one of my modified maps the other night, specifically a modified version of Swargey's Archipelago (a very good map by the way, I would recommend downloading it if you like archipelago maps), and I achieved a FIRST for me in roughly 7 years of playing Civilization 3 in its various Macintosh permutations.

I was playing the Netherlands (my background is Dutch), and was in the processed of developing one of the smaller islands when Greece dropped a city at one end. I sent a couple of Swiss Pikeman up to check this out, when a settler and warrior pop out of the new city and start heading south over my territory to the other end of the island. Not wishing to be caught in the middle, my Swiss made short work of the warrior, and I had two new citizens for my own colony. That of course started a long-distance war with Greece. I finally managed to start getting troops onto his main island, took two cities, and took a third that leveled upon capture. I had attacked a fourth city, one that I really wanted because of its location, but hit some tough hoplites (made tougher by one of my modifications to town defenses), and was unsuccessful.

Then up pops the Alexander leaderhead, asking if maybe we could end the war. As it was a long-distance war and moving troops 2 and 3 at a time was really getting to be a headache (somehow I messed up the galley upgrade to caravel in the course of modifying the map, need to check on that), I decided to agree. But I still wanted to have Corinth. So, on the off chance that the AI might agree to this, I added acquiring Corinth to the terms of the peace treaty. Note, when I have tried this before, it has never worked, but "hope springs eternal". To my amazement, the AI agreed to give me Corinth as part of the peace treaty.

This is the first time I have ever had that happen. I am assuming that the modifications to the map would have no affect on the AI programming, but it does make me wonder. Problem is, there are some other odd glitches showing up in the game that I need to fix, so I need to work on it some more, but I would hate to mess up a good thing too. Oh well, such is life. I do think that I will play the game out to the end, going for my normal Space Race win, just to see if it happens again.

Presently, I have eliminated the Aztecs, at war with Egypt, and bumping into China and Rome. Cleo decided to put a city in at the south end of the same island where Greece put the city in at the north end. Once I settled things with Greece, I took Cleo's city. However, since she is my neighbor, this war might last a while. At least I can get at her easily. Two moves for galley/caravel. I cannot wait to get Galleons, as this two unit max army is a real drag.
 
Congratulations! :D

I don't know the algorithm the AI uses to determine which, if any, cities it is willing to give up, but I *do* know that I've never gotten a major city. Almost invariably they are the pop-1, no-culture cities. That may be why you don't seem to get them: if you only ask for their *good* cities, they *will* say no.
 
Yeah, extortion doesn't seem the simplest thing in civ III I agree. If you really pulverize a large AI, surely you can get *almost* anything you want, but how much you need to pulverize them doesn't come as clear, and how much of a threat your currenty army comes as compared to theirs also probably plays a factor, though I don't know.
 
Congratulations! :D

I don't know the algorithm the AI uses to determine which, if any, cities it is willing to give up, but I *do* know that I've never gotten a major city. Almost invariably they are the pop-1, no-culture cities. That may be why you don't seem to get them: if you only ask for their *good* cities, they *will* say no.

Padma, that was also part of the shock, as this was a population 5 town, on the coast, with a harbor. Given my increases in coast production, and the boost that a coastal city gets from a harbor (increases in trade, food, and shield production in the water), also part of the modification, it was a very nice pick up. With the follow-on boosts that I have programmed into the modification, Corinth is going to be a very profitable city to have.

Yeah, extortion doesn't seem the simplest thing in civ III I agree. If you really pulverize a large AI, surely you can get *almost* anything you want, but how much you need to pulverize them doesn't come as clear, and how much of a threat your currenty army comes as compared to theirs also probably plays a factor, though I don't know.

Odd thing was that I had not really pulverized him, but I did have more units on the way in a steady stream (I did say that this was a long-distance war), which I suspect the AI was aware of. The units that I did have on his island were pretty beaten up from taking the two cities that I had captured, so I was not going to be using them soon. I think that I will just keep the units that I had set up there heading there, as China is just to the east of Greece, and I can see that I am going to have trouble with Mao sooner rather than later.

I also cheated a bit today, and looked at the editor to see why some of the glitches were showing up, and at the same time, checked out Egypt and Rome. Turns out that the city Egypt established on the island I was developing was located right on top of a "horse" resource, and there are no "horse" resources on the island where Egypt is located. On the island where Rome is located, there is no iron resource, so no Roman Legionary. There are horse though. Note, I did not set the starting locations for the AI, nor did I preset any starting civilizations. After looking at the islands, Egypt needed to be where Rome is and Rome needed to be where Egypt is for their unique units. Very odd.
 
If an AI settles in a strange place, there OFTEN (though NOT always) exists some resource there.
 
If an AI settles in a strange place, there OFTEN (though NOT always) exists some resource there.

I would have to go back and check the original map download from Swargey, but I think that the starting locations were set by him/her. However, what civilization started at what point was strictly up to the AI. I do have preset starting locations for the Netherlands, the Byzantines, the Scandinavians/Vikings, and Carthage, so they are not on the list of possible opponents. I do agree wholeheartedly with your comment however, given the number of maps that I have generated with AI starting positions, and then watched where the AI settled verses where critical resources that appeared later in the game were located. In the case of the Greek city, when I looked at the map in the editor, it was sited one square from a future deposit of Uranium. A couple of the other locations of opponent cities make sense when I checked to see what would be showing up down the line. One city was right on top of an Aluminum deposit, and another was right next to a coal deposit. In both cases the location makes sense if the AI is locating based on the future resource.
 
Congratulations!

It will likely come as no surprise that I enjoy pulverizing the AI and demanding cities. I cannot recall ever getting a size 5 city, but I do seem to recall some 2s and 3s.

I seem to recall getting some 6's and 5's, & definitely 4's; also, getting at least 3 cities in a peace deal. The AI's seem more willing to give up cities they have recently captured where the citizens haven't completely "converted" yet. In fact, I sort of vaguely recall that that was the case with the larger towns I acquired. I almost always ask for a city as part of a peace deal & get it more often than not, if the war has lasted a while.

kk
 
Since I liked the map, I went back and started playing the Vikings, with a different start point. When I reached the island that Greece was on in the Netherlands game, I got a bit of a shock.

The city that the Greeks gave me with the peace treaty, Corinth, was sitting on top of their ONLY source of IRON.

I went back to the base map in the editor, and sure enough, there was the iron deposit. Since it were building swordsman, the AI knew the IRON was there, but still gave up the city. Note, I DID NOT KNOW that the IRON was there before going back and checking the map. I wanted it for its location controlling the passage between two major blocks of islands, and also because being on a peninsula with the boosts I have given coastal squares makes it a very good long-term production center.

With the discovery of the iron deposit, I spent considerable time looking through the editor to see if any possible setting change may have affected the AI with respect to the city-surrender algorithm. The only thing that I could see that might have any affect is that I changed the advance for trading world maps from Navigation to Map Making. I do not remember making any changes to specific civilizations basic data, but I think that I will recheck that as well the next time I am on my Windows box game editor.

I definitely am going to keep playing this game and see if the AI is any more cooperative now.
 
Just a few more questions to consider:

Was Greece involved in any other wars at the time?
Was Corinth a small city compared to the rest of Greece?
What other cities did Greece have?

You got a sweetheart deal with Cornith, no doubt about it. :D
 
Just a few more questions to consider:

Was Greece involved in any other wars at the time?
Was Corinth a small city compared to the rest of Greece?
What other cities did Greece have?

You got a sweetheart deal with Cornith, no doubt about it. :D

Greece was not involved in any other wars at the time, as I had just finished knocking out the Aztecs, who were their closest neighbor.

Corinth was the second largest city the Greeks had, and giving it to me left them with 4 cities.
 
Wow. The best I've ever done is a pop. 2 city or two pop.1 cities. This shows just how odd the AI can act in Civ3
 
I have had that happen many a times. Also, if they just recently captured the city from anothe civilization they will give it uo easier.
 
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