Fix borders!!
- Thread starter Xenos
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thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
While I think what you mentioned is fine(and the AI never builds a city right on the border, and rarely a square away), it would be nice to have a way to "re-draw" borders, like when making up a peace treaty.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
What needs to be killed off is snatching territory with "assault settlers".
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
Colonel said:
I guess you'd just have to compromise.
sealman
Hater of Babylonians
boarders should not change during peace times unless both sides agree.
Loaf Warden
(no party affiliation)
thestonesfan said:
Yeah, that would be a good idea. I'll agree with that.
socralynnek
Civ & Hattrick addict
I think, borders are fine, the way they are now, does someone still remember the old civs where there were no borders and the AI could do whatever they want, because no one could claim territory?
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
Yes, I hated that.
Except you can't really "claim" territory now, short of building a city. I think it would be great if you could find a new island and say "I claim this land for Spain!" Then, if people wanted to settle there, they'd have to buy some land from you, or fight you for it. You could make your own Louisiana Purchases.
Also, think about playing on a real world map. Russia doesn't have cities up past the arctic circle, and settlements are very sparse in siberia, but it still claims all that land. In Civ3, you have every civ sending settlers out into that land to build worthless cities.
It would take some thinking to implement right, but it probably could be done, and I think the game would be better for it.
Except you can't really "claim" territory now, short of building a city. I think it would be great if you could find a new island and say "I claim this land for Spain!" Then, if people wanted to settle there, they'd have to buy some land from you, or fight you for it. You could make your own Louisiana Purchases.
Also, think about playing on a real world map. Russia doesn't have cities up past the arctic circle, and settlements are very sparse in siberia, but it still claims all that land. In Civ3, you have every civ sending settlers out into that land to build worthless cities.
It would take some thinking to implement right, but it probably could be done, and I think the game would be better for it.
Loaf Warden
(no party affiliation)
I agree whole-heartedly.
I was about to say that there should be a time limit on that sort of thing. As in, if, for example, the Spanish claim that island, then don't send in Settlers to start using it after a certain number of turns, then they must relinquish their rights to it so someone else can have it. The reason being that it's too easy to imagine the AI (or a human player, for that matter), just going around and claiming all the land it finds without ever following up on it. So before you know it, all the land in the world is claimed by somebody, but nobody is actually using it.
As I say, I was about to say that. Then you had to go and bring up the Siberian Question, as I like to call it. That is, as a frequent player of real-world maps, I absolutely hate the way the AI always turns Siberia into a hideous patchwork quilt of unconnected and useless cities. Allowing the first civ that gets there to simply claim the land and get it over with would be a perfect solution to that. It would be more like the real Siberia, owned by someone and therefore off-limits to settlement by anyone else, but still not really being used much.
So maybe time limits aren't the answer. Still, there needs to be some way to keep that in check so all the civs aren't just claiming all the land they see. Well, like you said, it will take some thought.
I was about to say that there should be a time limit on that sort of thing. As in, if, for example, the Spanish claim that island, then don't send in Settlers to start using it after a certain number of turns, then they must relinquish their rights to it so someone else can have it. The reason being that it's too easy to imagine the AI (or a human player, for that matter), just going around and claiming all the land it finds without ever following up on it. So before you know it, all the land in the world is claimed by somebody, but nobody is actually using it.
As I say, I was about to say that. Then you had to go and bring up the Siberian Question, as I like to call it. That is, as a frequent player of real-world maps, I absolutely hate the way the AI always turns Siberia into a hideous patchwork quilt of unconnected and useless cities. Allowing the first civ that gets there to simply claim the land and get it over with would be a perfect solution to that. It would be more like the real Siberia, owned by someone and therefore off-limits to settlement by anyone else, but still not really being used much.
So maybe time limits aren't the answer. Still, there needs to be some way to keep that in check so all the civs aren't just claiming all the land they see. Well, like you said, it will take some thought.
I got it, there could be a bad side to being a large nation. Maybe you have more revolts, it is harder to have a powerful infrastructure or it is harder to maintain there just has to be a cost to having a large empire so that bigger isn't almost always better. That way both humans and AIs would think twice before claiming vast tracks of land.
BassDude726
It's Just a Phase
I never thought the borders were the actual limits of your nation, I always assumed they were the extent of your cultural influence.
Gogf
Indescribable
Chieftess said:
Sorry, could you please rephrase that CT?
I agree with TLC. Although it's a great artillery strategy, it is very cheap.
I also think that this thread has a valid point. Either you (or the AI) can capture a resource or luxury, and get a new resrouce or luxury, and in the process damage the other civs rep by building a city next to the border.
Ok, look at this this way:
CG|GG|GC
C = City
G = Grassland
| = Border
In vanilla and PTW, the AI wouldn't build inbetween those two city borders. Thus, on easy levels, you could space out your cities, and the AI would never settle between them. Now, the AI will build next to your border, even if it's 1 tile on the edit of a peninsula.
CG|GG|GC
C = City
G = Grassland
| = Border
In vanilla and PTW, the AI wouldn't build inbetween those two city borders. Thus, on easy levels, you could space out your cities, and the AI would never settle between them. Now, the AI will build next to your border, even if it's 1 tile on the edit of a peninsula.
Ryth
Chieftain
Maybe you could only claim an island if you had something on the island that could prevent others from just landing and settling?
In my county, which is two main islands, and the last significant, highly habitable, land area to be settled, both the French and the English wanted to 'claim' it in the 1850s (ignoring the 'native' polynesians who'd settled there 800 years before). Both empires were really too far away to properly occupy the land, but both wanted it (think gold and game and grasslands with shields) and were willing to fight for it. Solution: the English beat the French to a 'treaty' with the Maoris (legend has it by only a 1/2hr
), therefore having 'units' to claim the land with.
Given the concepts of vassal countries being touted around as well, this kind of claiming land would obviously work - even if its only that your scout/explorer unit has unearthed a goodie hut with a friendly conscript sitting around, or best option it found a settler wanting to join your despotism (obviously didn't really know what one was
). Maybe the amount of land each unit could claim would be limited by how many tiles it could cover in 10 turns as a raidus from where the unit is, as an example - because if you can't defend it, its not yours!
Sorry for the potted history lesson, but I hope you get my drift. Feedback?
In my county, which is two main islands, and the last significant, highly habitable, land area to be settled, both the French and the English wanted to 'claim' it in the 1850s (ignoring the 'native' polynesians who'd settled there 800 years before). Both empires were really too far away to properly occupy the land, but both wanted it (think gold and game and grasslands with shields) and were willing to fight for it. Solution: the English beat the French to a 'treaty' with the Maoris (legend has it by only a 1/2hr
), therefore having 'units' to claim the land with.Given the concepts of vassal countries being touted around as well, this kind of claiming land would obviously work - even if its only that your scout/explorer unit has unearthed a goodie hut with a friendly conscript sitting around, or best option it found a settler wanting to join your despotism (obviously didn't really know what one was
). Maybe the amount of land each unit could claim would be limited by how many tiles it could cover in 10 turns as a raidus from where the unit is, as an example - because if you can't defend it, its not yours!Sorry for the potted history lesson, but I hope you get my drift. Feedback?
socralynnek
Civ & Hattrick addict
My idea, if you want to claim territory, you have to build something like an outpost there. And you have to keep some military there to keep the claim.
And then, claimed territory should be tradeable (but the AI has to be programmed well to compute the right value of that claim)
And then, claimed territory should be tradeable (but the AI has to be programmed well to compute the right value of that claim)
Kolath
Eternal Lurker
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2001
- Messages
- 169
I would like to see the borders actually functioning as borders, that is, barriers to foreigners. In Civ3, every civ just sort of waltzs through your territory on its way to the other side. Sure, you can build enough cheap troops to completely line your border, but that is expensive and time consuming. Or you can demand that the AI stop trespassing, but even on warlord level they declare war on you about 75% of the time, whereas the AI ALWAYS demands that you leave THEIR territory. So I'd like to see the AI respect territorial borders to a greater extent in Civ IV.
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
Having to maintain some outposts might be the answer to long term claims on unsettled land. The "treaty with the natives" idea is also a good one.
Which brings up another thing I hope they represent better - indigenous populations. They need to go beyond barbarians.
Which brings up another thing I hope they represent better - indigenous populations. They need to go beyond barbarians.
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