Fix Feudalism!!!!!

[The Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Tavenier

It is Medea. For non-Western names historians came up with names which suited all western languages. Before that a name like Mao Zedong was called Mao Ze Toeng in Dutch, Tse Tung in English (if I'm not mistaken) and so forth. It was agreed that all Chinese, Egyptian, Persian, Zulu (and so on) names had one and the same name in Latin alphabet. So the French, Dutch, Spanish, Germans, Irish all have the same names for leaders and cities of those cultures.
The agreed upon name is Medea, to make a long story short.

You say? These agreed on names certainly aren't used in Swedish and German, at least. Medea is invariably "Medien" in Swedish, f'rinstance.

And there certainly are different treatments of Greek in use in English! Latinizations and transliterations, to begin with. A quick check in various English-language maps and books on my HD and in my bookshelves reveals half-a-dozen instances of 'Media' and none of 'Medea', so the later is hardly the dominant spelling. Googling turns up many times more hits on 'Media Ecbatana' than on 'Medea Ecbatana', which also seems to suggest that "Media" is the more common spelling in English.

Can anyone find the Greek spelling? Mu-eta-delta-epsilon-iota-alpha, perhaps?

 

[tomart109]

Originally posted by USC
Republic and Democracy get +1 trade (gold) from every square that already produces at least 1 trade.

You mean it's like the Colossus, which gives you an extra Commerce in every square that already produces one...?

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Yea, except it affects your whole empire not just one city.

 

[TerraHero]

I find Feudalisme a fine governement, but i can't expand my armies to large. Its a expansionistic Governement, not to build an army to defend the homeland.

Also not ideal for when u're largy covered in by water, coz then u need to waist alot on naval power. But the 3 gold upkeep is alot, and feudalism is a very situation specific gov.

 

[Fanny Brice]

Feudalism is really designed to be a dead-end government. It is an expansionist tool... once you stop expanding and you hit the unit limit, it really is more costly than the benefits it provides.

It is essentially Monarchy with the "pop-rush" ability. The Military Police (MP) of 3 is very good as well. If you don't have more than 2 luxuries, you really miss the MP when you switch to Republic or Democracy.

If you are not at war and you are trying to keep military parity with your neighbors, you will go bancrupt or fall behind in tech.

I agree, it would be nice if there was something to make it just a little more viable. Adding a bonus commerce in the city tile would be something... maybe to represent baronal tribute.

But, since it is really a comparison of Monarchy to Feudalism and not Feudalism to Republic... I would pick Monarchy everytime.

 

[Commander Bello]

The worst thing is, that it does not allow you to enter war during your expansion, as far as I see it.
As I have posted earlier, I prefer Republic much more, since it gives you more benefits, allows for more options how to react to the AI moves and may be used to the very end of the game.

 

[Torisen]

It looks to me like Feudalism shouldn't be superior to Republic or Monarchy even though it comes later, since it is the only government on a forced tech advance - in theory, to research any other government you give up the ability to push ahead toward the next age of technology, but you'll get feudalism, like it or not.

But so far I don't see the appeal. For that matter, does anyone use communism? Can a sufficiently expanded communist government still hit max corruption on every city?

 

[Black Waltz]

I just think it's an intresting Government for use for very specific circumstances. Just like the Marine is a very useful tool in certain circumstances.

 

[warpstorm]

Originally posted by Torisen
For that matter, does anyone use communism? Can a sufficiently expanded communist government still hit max corruption on every city?

I often use it. Is it the most effective? No. Not in all cases. When the FP and SPHQ worked well, it was a very competitive government form. Even in their current state it's a fun gov't for warmogering.

I've had the entire world conquered and never got more than about half corruption in cities (less with corruption busters built). This sounds bad, but it's not really. Rather than 15 or so highly productive cities and the rest doing nothing, you can get 75 or so half productive cities. Where you will suffer is in gold and research due to the lack of trade bonus.

 

[meltone1]

speaking of the 3 gold unit maintenance, does anyone know the historical significance of why unit upkeep would be so high in a feudal society?

 

[Black Waltz]

Well I can only give you the English example. But it was simply that it was an expensive business hiring troops. The Feadal Lords had to provide a certain amount of troops depending on how much land they held. However, the king only had a certain amount of time that he could use these troops until he had to pay them. And it was VERY costly to keep a standing army like that, even if you don't factor in costs of food, etc. Edward I found this out in his conquest of Wales and Scotland.

I'm guessing my explanation can be added upon a bit more.

 

[Tavenier]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist


You say? These agreed on names certainly aren't used in Swedish and German, at least. Medea is invariably "Medien" in Swedish, f'rinstance.

And there certainly are different treatments of Greek in use in English! Latinizations and transliterations, to begin with. A quick check in various English-language maps and books on my HD and in my bookshelves reveals half-a-dozen instances of 'Media' and none of 'Medea', so the later is hardly the dominant spelling. Googling turns up many times more hits on 'Media Ecbatana' than on 'Medea Ecbatana', which also seems to suggest that "Media" is the more common spelling in English.

Can anyone find the Greek spelling? Mu-eta-delta-epsilon-iota-alpha, perhaps?

Well, when I check my books or the internet I also see many different names for eg Mao. But that's because it was not so lang ago agreed upon to have one and the same name for a lot of foreign names. Like Beijing or Mao. Only a few years ago. And there still are writers and historians clinging to the old names, because maybe it sounds better in their language or because they are chouvinistic, or something.

 

[Commander Bello]

Originally posted by meltone1
speaking of the 3 gold unit maintenance, does anyone know the historical significance of why unit upkeep would be so high in a feudal society?

hmmm.. my recent answer doesn't show up... so I give it a second try:

One example for that could be the "Holy Roman Empire of German Nation". Although the "Rex Romanorum" was to be crowned to be Emperor and by that would be the head of the empire, with all vassals to have to obey him, in reality that didn't happen.
Even, when he became crownd, the particular interests of the sovereigns made it almost impossible to unite them under the emperor's flag.
The emperor was very much dependant from his own houses' power. In case of a war, the kings, dukes, counts of the German territories were in principle oblieged to send him there troops. On the other hand, a lot of them were just foreign principals. Like the King of England being simultaneously King of Hannover for some time.
So, to get support from his vassals, he had to offer them something in exchange - money, land, rights...

 

[Masquerouge]

Originally posted by warpstorm
I often use it. Is it the most effective? No. Not in all cases. When the FP and SPHQ worked well, it was a very competitive government form. Even in their current state it's a fun gov't for warmogering.

I completely agree ! The best part is that there's no longer any war weariness, plus the military police... It's very easy to have all your cities in WLTK while waging wars like there's no tomorrow
In my current games there are two continents. One is mine, I've got the Sistine'chapel, JSB and 8 luxuries gained through wars... Oh boy.

 

[troytheface]

i usually go fuedalism to facism and keep pop rushing and attacking. If u choose a militiristic civ Fuedalism is not a bad choice. But i have only won once on Emperor. When i win on Diety with this method i will be more certain...the arguements against Fuedalism seem sound, I was more interested in trying out new governments more than anything else, but i think i got the swing of it, ...like most of this game u have to know how to optimize every aspect ..uu's, traits, govs , terrrain ect. The real beauty of the game (for me) is based in this.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Pesonally, I think that only change needed for Feudalism is too get rid of higher cost for units.

Just make it 1gp per unit.

It will make fine government for civ with lots of town, and will slowly fade when you get bigger cities (with current rules it fades too quickly with 3gp/per unit cost).

As for war wariness, it should stay, so Despotism could have still one small advantage over Feudalism.