Forgotten Combos

[DWetzel]

I was looking at the HOF statistics, and noticed that for a number of victory conditions, certain civs have never been accepted into the HOF for specific victory conditions.

I've decided to make it my goal to make sure that all those civilizations get the chance, just once, to make the tables.

Who's with me?

 

[DWetzel]

In Episode #1 of Forgotten Combos, we decide to take the Celts into space. The Celts are the only tribe that has never made the trip to Alpha Centauri for the Hall of Fame.


Suffice to say, this was an obscenely good start for the Celts:

What could be better than a river and three cows?

How 'bout... a river and five cows?

Okay, so the river was kind of small.

There wasn't really much else to tell about this game. A fairly early SGL (Code of Laws, I think?) became the Pyramids and a too-early Golden Age for the Celts, but with all those cows, the explosive growth was quite useful enough.

I put in a couple of non-scientific civs (America and Portugal) to hopefully circulate techs in the ancient age and pick up the early pace a bit. That wasn't too helpful, though at least it helped me meet a couple of people while in farmer's gambit mode. Between those two and Russia, at least I had a few civs met. My map turned out to be a goofy elongated C shape, with me near the top right of the C (Russia was at the extreme end), which hindered meeting the other scientific civs (Ottomans, Sumeria, Persia, Germany, and Byzantines). Fortunately, I was at least able to trade for Monotheism to kick off the medieval period, which let me research Theology-Education-Astronomy, etc. and let the AI at least pick up the other basic medieval techs. They got me Feudalism easily enough, and I think I finally met one of the other scientific civs two turns before I was to be done researching Engineering, and gifted them into that.

Similarly, in the industrial age I was able to gift up and trade for Steam, which let me go up that north half of the tree for a good long while. I hit a run of people getting Nationalism, unfortunately , which complicated things.

The ToE was timed to follow my ascension to the modern age. Gifting everybody up yielded three of the four modern techs (excluding Ecology), so I took Ecology with the first of my two ToE techs, then traded around for the other techs, and took Miniaturizaion.

The usual stuff followed, and Brennus launched himself to the stars in 1290 AD, good for second place on the Large Monarch Spaceship table.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Hmm, I seem to be responsible for the only two Zulu 20K and the only Chinese 100K.

 

[DWetzel]

For the record, here are the remaining targets to be acquired:

Conquest: Korea, Mongols, Spain.
Domination: Korea, Portugal, Spain.
20k: Hittites
100k: Rome, Mongols, France, Korea, Hittites, Portugal, Inca.
Diplomatic: China, Japan, Mongols, Scandinavia, Carthage, America, France, Zulu, Arabia.
Spaceship: ---

Histographic: Japan, Spain, Arabia, Korea, Hittites.


Hmm. I think I'll put the Hittite 20k game out of its misery next.

 

[Tone]

Not wishing to be a pedant but one of these stands out as incorrect. There have been a number of Histo games played with the Ottomans, including the top three games before C3C came out. Is it that there are no conquests Histo entries for the Ottomans or am I missing something else?

 

[Spoonwood]

I noticed the Ottomans straight away too. How did you make your list DWetzel?

 

[DWetzel]

Badly?

I basically looked at the graphs and counted the civs, and then figured out which ones were missing. Flat out missed the Ottomans. List edited to reflect my idiocy.

 

[Marsden]

I think it's ironic that the three largest empires in history are the three least submitted civilizations in the HoF.

Spoiler :

(Mongols, England, and Rome)

 

[Spoonwood]

Badly?

Well, you did make a list, and I didn't.

Addendum: Actually, I'm with you here for this sort of challenge. Mind if I try Japan histographic and post my results/updates here instead of in my thread? Or is this a DWetzel challenge only? I thought about starting a sort of monster thread where we tried to get a save for every tribe with a victory for every victory condition at every level for every map size (under say HoF conditions, but not necessarily the best finish dates). The grid would go

Chieftain Conquest:
Map Size: Tiny Small Standard Large Huge
Aztecs
America
...
Zulu
Chieftain Domination:

Wow, I can already tell that's really huge. 7*8*31*5=8680 entries to get more precise.

 

[DWetzel]

Oh, heavens no, by all means have at it. I doubt I'll try the Histo games. I may get around to some of the other ones, but not all of them. Just thought this might be an interesting possibility for a few people looking for an out-of-the-way challenge.

And yeah, 8000+ games might be a bit much. Just a wee bit.

 

[Marsden]

... I thought about starting a sort of monster thread where we tried to get a save for every tribe with a victory for every victory condition at every level for every map size (under say HoF conditions, but not necessarily the best finish dates). The grid would go

Chieftain Conquest:
Map Size: Tiny Small Standard Large Huge
Aztecs
America
...
Zulu
Chieftain Domination:

Wow, I can already tell that's really huge. 7*8*31*5=8680 entries to get more precise.

Isn't that what the HoF is for?

 

[DWetzel]

Hittite 20k, check. Standard Warlord 20k, 1600 AD, good for 6th on the table. 60% pangaea, wet/warm/5Byo, opponents: Ottomans, Persia, Maya, Germany, Egypt, Babylon. I wanted a number of civs with Bronze Working and Masonry in the game, since the Hittites don't start with any wonder-building techs.

It's the Hittites; I wasn't in the mood to roll a zillion starts. The first one that looked non-awful (your mileage may vary) was this motley collection:

Now, it doesn't look like much, but moving the settler SE to the coast revealed an ivory. That was good enough for me. I built a curragh, then a warrior (for MP), then worked on a granary until I could switch to the Colossus.

Research was Bronze Working/Masonry/Math, which enabled me to use the Colossus as a prebuild for the SoZ, which completed in 2070BC, just before the Colossus would have triggered the really early GA. I traded for CB from the Babylonians, who were close, and I think I got the end of Masonry from Persia. After Math, I worked the Republic slingshot, actually managed to have the Warlord AI pop or research Mysticism, Polytheism, and Iron Working for me.

While research continuted and Hattusas kept at wonder building--after the temple, I grabbed the Oracle in 1200 BC, then the Colossus to trigger my GA in 800 BC (that motley collection DID yield a maximum of 33 spt in the golden age, so that was a plus), I set about getting me a leader for the Heroic Epic. I had to go through three civs to get one (RIP Babylon, Maya, and Germany), but finally got one late in my conquest of the Germans, so that yielded the Heroic Epic in 10 BC.

I did get two medieval SGLs, for Education and Banking; these rushed the Sistine Chapel (340 AD) and Bach's (550 AD). In search of SGLs, I researched up to the modern ages while building my way up, to no avail. Other than the ancient cavs, I mostly neglected my army; Egypt decided to sneak-attack some far-off town in about 1500. I signed in the Ottomans and Persians, fought back for a short while, made peace, and let the game end mercifully.

The CivAssist 2 screenie at end of game is attached.

 

[Spoonwood]

The Hittites might work well for a small or tiny map on demi-god or deity much like Portugal (if you saw my write-ups on them).... provided that you can pop a settler from a hut (harder to do for smaller maps). The Colossus golden age can give you a faster build on The Pyramids and/or The Oracle, so more culture earlier. It can also help propel you to the Republic slingshot faster.

I don't mean that as criticism. You had a plenty good game there.

Every tribe at every level for every map type gives you 31 tribes for say a small, Warlord map for a 100k game. There only exists ten spots... so clearly Marsden was joking.

 

[Spoonwood]

Oh... I said Japan histographic, didn't I? Guess what, I think I'll give a standard Sid map a go.... well if I ever decide to give archipelago a go.

 

[Marsden]

Every tribe at every level for every map type gives you 31 tribes for say a small, Warlord map for a 100k game. There only exists ten spots... so clearly Marsden was joking.

I wasn't joking, I was misunderstanding.

Oh.


That's much different.