Foundation and Empire #2

If you want to play better, you need to consider the numerical aspect of the game as well. In that regard, explaining concepts is good and handing people rules of thumb is bad. This thread is doing great at the former, and it shouldn't get stuck on the latter.
Many people learn well this way (numeric rules and abstract organizing principles first), but others learn better VoU's way (rules of thumb that cover the simple cases, more comprehensive analysis later). The trick is to find rules of thumb that don't involve much "unlearning" later -- though some "unlearning" might be unavoidable. I think VoU is doing a good job.
Basic city specialization is actually sort of easy.

Most cities should do what they're good at. Existing resources, hills, rivers, and grass should point towards food, hammers, or beakers. After the cities "natural" tiles are used, the other tiles should support the primary function as good as they can. Buildings should also support the primary function of the city.
Sounds good to me; maybe it belongs in a 3rd or 4th lesson?
 
This is some good stuff, VoU. I got to Prince by doing a lot of micromanaging that I learned from succession games, but my basic skills could do with some polishing.
 
Some deeper thoughts on the city position, and it's effect on scouting.

In the previous game, I trained three warriors before the settler. Here, I'm thinking to train only a single warrior.

The difference is the tiles around Athens: dry corn is weaker than wet corn, sheep are weaker than cows, and there are no hills available to mine here. In other words, I'll run out of improved tiles when I get to size three. The city tile, corn tile, and sheep tile are each giving me 3 more food and hammers than I put into them. But adding an unimproved tile to the mix adds a mere +1 hammer to the 9 I already have.

I take it when you say that you will run out of improved tiles you're only talking about those that would increase production. Is farming out of the question at this point? I would think working food-rich tiles (eg. floodplain with a farm) would also work because food is added to hammers for settler and worker production.

So based on this, the crappier the starting position in terms of production, the sooner we need to look to founding the second city. So if we had more hills we could build more warriors while growing and them produce settlers and workers more quickly because of more hammers.

C isn't serious play here, I don't think - not with the hills in the way.

Why is C not "serious play". I understand why A is better but it seems like a decent enough spot. I've definitely seen a lot worse and it would block your enemy. I also don't understand why the hills make a difference.

If you're a recovering buildaholic, and need to spend one hammer on units for every hammer invested in infrastructure, then you drop the courthouse, but the rest fits. Given where the city is located, Market/Grocer is probably a better choice than Courthouse anyway, given the proximity to the capital.

Can you clarify the bolded statement above? I get the idea with the proximity to the capital but I think I'm still a bit confused with the commerce vs gold issue. So if I have say 100:commerce: in one city and my slider is at 80% that means that 80:commerce: goes to :science: and 20 goes to :gold:. So would building a market add a multiplier for that 20:gold:? If I understand this correctly this would make it easier to pay city maintenance and may allow me to raise the slider? I just want to make sure I understand how this bit works.

And thanks so much for doing this. I've read it a bunch of times and it's helped immensely. :)
 
I take it when you say that you will run out of improved tiles you're only talking about those that would increase production. Is farming out of the question at this point? I would think working food-rich tiles (eg. floodplain with a farm) would also work because food is added to hammers for settler and worker production.

In this case, farming is doesn't help. Farms without an extra food bonus under them are three yield tiles at this point in the game (farm a green tile for 3 :food:, farm a brown tile for 2 :food: + 1 :hammers:), which aren't significantly stronger than the forests which are already there (green forest 2 :food: + 1 :hammers: , 1 :food: + 2 :hammers: )

Farming floodplains, farming sugar (turning a 3 :food: tile into a 4 :food: tile), is roughly equivalent to mining a hill - 2 surplus yield instead of 1 for a forest.

Mind, that would still only be taking me from +9 to +11

So based on this, the crappier the starting position in terms of production, the sooner we need to look to founding the second city. So if we had more hills we could build more warriors while growing and them produce settlers and workers more quickly because of more hammers.

Yup.

Why is C not "serious play". I understand why A is better but it seems like a decent enough spot. I've definitely seen a lot worse and it would block your enemy. I also don't understand why the hills make a difference.

Not sure anymore what I was thinking about there. I may have meant to write "not seriously in play. The main problem with the hills here is the same that we had with the scout -- the hills cut the walking distance between here and the capital in half.

Given where the city is located, Market/Grocer is probably a better choice than Courthouse anyway, given the proximity to the capital.

Can you clarify the bolded statement above?

I get the idea with the proximity to the capital but I think I'm still a bit confused with the commerce vs gold issue. So if I have say 100:commerce: in one city and my slider is at 80% that means that 80:commerce: goes to :science: and 20 goes to :gold:. So would building a market add a multiplier for that 20:gold:?

Yes.

If I understand this correctly this would make it easier to pay city maintenance and may allow me to raise the slider? I just want to make sure I understand how this bit works.

Close enough for a player who's competing at Noble, so ignore what follows if it doesn't make sense yet; I'm perhaps being a bit to precise.



Your treasury is global; the wealth you generate in your cities contributes to your "income", and the city maintenance cost contribute to your "expenses". So adding a market in a city provides more overall income which may be used to pay your overall expenses (which also include things like the cost of supporting your military, or wealth/turn that you are trading away to the AI).

When your income exceeds your expenses, you have a number of options, including accumulating wealth for later use or raising the science slider to divert more commerce to science.
 
(a) Code of Laws - large open areas of land to be settled, and we have to worry about how to pay for it all

Can you explain how code of laws helps with that? I don't think courthouses are that much of a priority (maybe on higher diff) or is it to run allot of scientist?
 
Can you explain how code of laws helps with that? I don't think courthouses are that much of a priority (maybe on higher diff) or is it to run allot of scientist?

Courthouses cut city maintenance costs. With a bunch of land to settle you will have a bunch of cities, which means high maintenance costs as the distance from the capital increases. Building courthouses in thoses cities some distance from the capital will help with this issue.
 
With a bunch of land to settle you will have a bunch of cities, which means high maintenance costs as the distance from the capital increases.

It also means high maintenance costs as the number of cities increases. One of the strategy articles has a description of the formulas.
 
Interesting little writeup, I think it will be good for people who just need to know how to start up. It is hard to not want to correct every possible error, where we assume an error is anything that isn't 100% perfect Diety play, but that isn't really correct or appropriate.

To improve the serious, I would suggest:

1) Before making the big decisions on war, maybe a little better description of your general plan. While the specifics of combat are tactical, there is a big overwhelming strategic component of when, and where, to war.

2) Like you have a basic 'tech order' that you mention deviations from, how about a basic city build order with the same? (Or maybe you have it but I missed it?) Should they focus on getting that culture pop first? Or granary? A nice little list would be a good step in that direction.
 
By the way, love the Isaac Asimov Reference.
 
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