Founding a religion, and how it works if you adopt one instead?

[Greenpakto]

Ok, I am a somewhat experienced player (pure deity player, but usually never plays against more than one player, all else ai) but there are a few things about religion that I am uncertain of.

How EXACTLY does it work if you can't manage to found your own, can you still benefit from ALL belief stages of another religion (Pantheon, Founder, Follower, Enhancer and Reformation), if your main capitol adopts a religion from another civ?
Can your capitol adopt a religion from another civ and make it GLOBAL, becoming a holy city (such as if it where your own), or does it work the same as a basic city, where its purely tied to that city alone?
I understand that most follower beliefs are tied to the city that adops the religion, but what about global beliefs (espacially the aggresive ones from "enhancer") such as "+20% Combat Strength near enemy cities that follow this religion"?

I guess founder belief (and probably pantheon as well) is PURELY for the founding civilisation, even if your capitol adopted another civs religion right? What about the rest of the beliefs?

Ive never actually thought of how it works, because I always manage to found a belief even when playing 10+ civs, and when I look at "civ wikia" its not entirely clear.

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In other words, is Follower Beliefs the only "stage of beliefs" I can benefit from IF I havent created the religion on my own, EVEN if my main capitol adopts another civs founded religion?
Can a capitol become a holy city by adopting another civs religion, and benefit from all beliefs from that religion?

 

[FeiLing]

If you aren't the founder all you get (for sure) is the pantheon and follower beliefs. I am not sure about the enhancer effects that deal with combat strength near etc, but I belief you do not get those - just like you don't get the 50 faith for every expended great person (which is an enhancer that basically works like a founder belief).

 

[Makavcio]

Religions are tied with civilizations, not cities. All cities, including holly cities, can change their religions, as you must have experienced in your games.

All cities of a given religion benefit from pantheon, follower, reformation and enhancer elements of a religion as long as these are city-oriented beliefs. If any of these beliefs affects the religion itself, like wider influence, it will apply to all cities no matter who owns them. The moment a city is converted to another religion, all former city-based benefits disappear and you get the new set. This is also true for your holy city (usually capital) so if it gets converted, you lose all your city-based benefits there.

All religions have only one founder and one holly city. Holly cities have their real benefits limited to city boundaries, i.e. you can build great temple there, your prophets will be born there (until industrial era) and the city will have increased religious pressure unless you kill its "holy" status with an inquisitor.

All civilizations can have only one state religion thorough the game and they will benefits from its founder's belief. No other civilization will ever benefit from any other founder's belief than the one created by itself. This religion cannot change and cannot be obtained in any other way than by initial creation of your religion. It doesn't matter whether there are any cities following this religion. Possession of holy cities also is not a factor here.


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Yes, you need to create a religion to use its founder's belief.
Your capital's religion has no empire-wide effects.
A city can become a holy city ONLY when a new religion is created there. In c4, a city could be the holy city of several religions. In c5, a city can be holy for only one religion and this trait is not transferable. Religions are tied with their creators, not holy cities.


PS.
Let me clarify some things a little.
If a foreign religion allows to buy mosques and grants cheaper and stronger prophets, your cities following this religion will allow you to buy mosques but you will get only standard prophets. When religion of these cities changes, mosques will not be removed, but if you haven't bought them already, you will not be able to do it anymore.

 

[sendos]

In my current German game, I am playing my first game without founding my own religion. How do I feel about this? Not too bad but still, having your own religion helps a good deal, otherwise you end up strengthening your neighbour(s) in either gold, culture or faith generation, even though you get a diplomatic bonus in return with the founder civ. However, the main benefit is the opportunity to get multiple faith buildings from different religions. Then, if possible, find the religion that has sacred sites, see if you can capture a prophet from that particular civ and spread the religion over your empire. You'll be rolling in tourism. Make sure you have some decent fpt. Main issue is when over religious civs send missionaries and prophets to your areas because you have no religion.

To answer OP's query, followers of a religion adopt pantheon, follower and notably reformation beliefs. For example, if you follow someone else's religion and they have Jesuit education, you get that ability too. If unconvinced, I'll upload my German game as proof. However, you don't gain reduced CS influence decay bonuses that the founder gets. As for enhancers, I will need to look further into it, but I'm certain that they mainly benefit the founder and no one else.

What would really be awesome is if you can steal someone's religion after defeating them. By that I mean annex the holy city and wipe out the enemy civ at the same time. That way, the founder beliefs aren't wasted.

 

[Greenpakto]

Thank you guys for claryfing this for me! Appreciated

All cities, including holly cities, can change their religions, as you must have experienced in your games.

Actually I havent noticed, because I usually avoid bringing my religion to other capitols, and I have always managed to avoid missionaries to my own capitol.
But now when you mention it, it does make sense. What happens with a holy city if its religion is changed? Will it not be possible for me to regain my own religion there then?

 

[Greenpakto]

In my current German game, I am playing my first game without founding my own religion. How do I feel about this? Not too bad but still, having your own religion helps a good deal...

Indeed, I cant even think of playing the game vanilla anymore

 

[sendos]

If a religious civ sends a prophet to your holy city and converts it, your capitol will obviously follow their religion but it will still have the Holy City status of your religion. It might look like as if your holy city has been erased but it hasn't. Just wait a few turns and you'll notice your religion emerging again. If you get the unity of the prophets reformation, your religion won't be so easily pushed around by enemy prophets and inquisitors.

Also speaking of inquisitors, whatever you do in the event of a converted capitol, DO NOT buy an inquisitor straight afterwards from the capitol. If you do, get rid of it and buy an inquisitor from another city of yours that follows your religion.

 

[kaspergm]

I have a question sort of on this topic, so I guess I can ask here just to make sure: If someone founds a religion, and then another player who didn't found the religion captures their holy city and eliminates the founding civ entirely, will it mean that no civ gets the benefits of the founder belief even though the religion is still active?

I would assume answer is yes, although it might have been good for game if you could take over founder rights by capturing holy city, it would sort of give an interesting edge to the game by making religion founders a bit of targets for none-religion founders.

 

[Browd]

Answer is yes.

Holy city capture benefits would be an interesting game feature, although not well reflected in RL. Since taking holy cities tends to enrage followers (rather than endear the conqueror to those followers), a more interesting mechanic might be having to deal with adverse consequences of conquering another holy city, like more fervent defense in other cities that follow that religion or decreased gold from the holy city (followers refusing to pay taxes and operating an underground economy).

 

[kaspergm]

Answer is yes.

Holy city capture benefits would be an interesting game feature, although not well reflected in RL. Since taking holy cities tends to enrage followers (rather than endear the conqueror to those followers), a more interesting mechanic might be having to deal with adverse consequences of conquering another holy city, like more fervent defense in other cities that follow that religion or decreased gold from the holy city (followers refusing to pay taxes and operating an underground economy).

That is true. Perhaps one could find a middle-ground which would be something like a period of increased resistance but after that if you adopt the religion as your state religion (yes, I know this is not a feature in the game) you would get the bonus of the religion to reflect that after a while, you have become accepted as a representitive of the religion.

Or perhaps a simpler solution would be that if majority of your cities follow the religion, they will accept you as head of church if you capture holy city, whereas if majority of your cities follow a different religion, they will resist you until you have either converted majority of your cities to this religion or eradicated status of holy city (which will give you a permanent penalty with all other civs and cities following that religion).

 

[sendos]

Answer is yes.

Holy city capture benefits would be an interesting game feature, although not well reflected in RL. Since taking holy cities tends to enrage followers (rather than endear the conqueror to those followers), a more interesting mechanic might be having to deal with adverse consequences of conquering another holy city, like more fervent defense in other cities that follow that religion or decreased gold from the holy city (followers refusing to pay taxes and operating an underground economy).

Heh. They could add schisms in the game.