Founding Shrines

[Calbrenar]

I think each shrine should be foundable by more then one GP type. I like how the Elven shrine is Prophet or Bard. Tablets of Bambur should be foundable by Prophet or Engineer. AV should be Prophet or Scientist. CoE should be Prophet/Merchant. Not sure about Empyrean/Order/OO.

I played a game as Luchuirp and used natosuelta and I could not get a Prophet for Tablets for the life of me. Even with a 75% chance I still popped an Engineer. Which realistically should be able to build the dwarven shrine anyway.

 

[Yaotzin]

Agreed.

The whole GP system in general is icky though. Hugely annoying micro required to have some control over what pops, and even then there's at least some luck. And you kind of have to control it, because some GPs (prophets, especially when going for altar, sages) are just way way better than others *coughbardcough*.

Would be real nice if you could just not bother with the micro and not be disappointed when you get a useless bard

 

[Wyrmhero]

Bards are brilliant for a culture war, but not much else, IMO. I would prefer each shrine to be built with different types too. I think that they should need:

AV, CoE & FoL - Fine as they are.
Empyrean - Prophet only.
RoK - Prophet or Engineer
Order - Prophet or General
OO - Prophet only.

The problem is that OO & Empyrean have no thematically unique GPs, except Prophets...

 

[Zechnophobe]

I actually had assumed for a long part of a game that an Engineer could found the Runes shrine... was really surprised to found out I was wrong.

I don't think it is NECESSARY that they all have secondary sources (Order really seems pretty religious) but a few more would be kinda cool.

 

[rusty217]

AV should be Prophet or Scientist.

AV can already be built by a prophet or sage...

 

[Calbrenar]

Really I thought it was GS only? Well see that just proves me right lol ;p

 

[rusty217]

Oh, and the Council of Esus shrine is prophet or merchant already aswell...

 

[Tugendbold]

CoE should be Prophet/Merchant.

It's also possible to create Coe Shrine with Merchant

edit: you beat me to it

 

[Calbrenar]

So only RoK got nailed? heh Seems and odd omission

 

[nihonjeff]

Great Sage might make sense as an alternate for Empyrean, since they're all about wisdom and philosophical discussion.

For OO, Bard might work. After all, OO is very Lovecraftian, and in his writings it was often artists who were most attuned to the mythos (Wilcox in Call of Cthulhu, Richard Upton Pickman in Pickman's Model). Not saying it's a great fit, but makes the most sense if we want to have each shrine buildable by two GPs.

 

[Calbrenar]

and it'd make drama a little more of a priority then it is now as both FoL and OO founders would want it first.

 

[Grey Fox]

I thought this was already in for most religions.

All can be founded with prophet now (which wasn't the case before), and some have a secondary.

 

[stp]

All religions should have a second option to make it easier to found the shrines. There is hardly anything more frustrating than not being able to found your shrine because you continuously get the wrong kind of GP.

That said I have to agree with Wyrmhero's list. The current ones on AV, FoL and CoE are fine and the Tablets of Bambur should definitely be foundable by Great Engineers. Merchant could be another but inferior option, wealth (not greed) is quite appropriate for RoK . Since the Order is very militaristic, it might be good to allow Great Commanders to found the Code of Junil. Not sure about the ideas for Empyrean and OO, but since I don't think there is a better option Sage and Bard might just be OK.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Course, on the front of needing a certain GP, I think that Theology tech should give a prophet to the first person to reach it. Might put a little zing in that Altar rush strat too.

 

[Grey Fox]

Bard is probably pretty good for Empyrean since Bards are usually pretty peaceful and often anti-war. Bards also fit for OO cause it's a cultural religion. But Sage might fit OO better cause of the whole Necromonicon thing and the Asylum, etc. Their temples already makes sages available.

I don't think both Empyrean and OO should have bards, cause that would make 3 religions out of 7 have Bards as requirement.

Currently it is;

Order - Priest
Emp - Priest
RoK - Priest
FoL - Bard or Priest
OO - Priest
CoE - Merchant or Priest
Veil - Sage or Priest

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I pay it should be:
Order: Great Priest of Great Commander
Empyrean: Great Priest or (I'm not decided about Sage, Bard, Merchant, or none. I'm leaning towards none, but making this shrine stronger than most)
Runes: Great Priest or Great Engineer
FoL: Great Priest or Great Bard
OO: Great Priest or Great Sage
CoE: Great Merchant or Great Bard
AV: Great Priest or Great Sage

 

[nihonjeff]

I would argue that the defining characteristic of Empyrean would be Wisdom, which would seem to be the domain of Sages rather than Bards. Out of curiosity, why are Bards "pretty peaceful and often anti-war"? *cough*Ted Nugent*cough*

For OO, making Sages their secondary GP brings them too close to AV. Why are Great Sages getting painted with the "forbidden knowledge" brush? Making it a Bard means it's thematic (madness and dreams), appropriate for a cultural religion (as Grey Fox mentioned), and provide a nice counterbalance for FoL.

Here are my recommendations for secondary options (with Great Prophet as first choice for all):

ORDER: Commander
EMPYREAN: Sage
RUNES: Engineer
FOLLOWERS OF LEAVES: Bard
OCTOPUS OVERLORDS: Bard
COUNCIL OF ESUS: Merchant
ASHEN VEIL: Sage

 

[Domingo]

Or you could just make the OO and Empyrean shrines buildable by regular hammers, in addition to the Great Prophet.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm thinking it might be good to do that for all the shrines.

 

[Grey Fox]

For OO, making Sages their secondary GP brings them too close to AV. Why are Great Sages getting painted with the "forbidden knowledge" brush?

Cause the Necromonicon is a spellbook with spells to summon the old ones and stuff like that (in this game I guess it's a means to communicate with the overlords).