Fox-03 -- Trying to be Special

GreyFox · Apr 21, 2006

Not to beat on a dead horse, but rex, a double sorry is in order: it was a 50/50 since Kublai's galley is promoted to +10% strength. :lol:

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Rex Tyrannus · Apr 21, 2006

One of these days I'm gonna have to make a variant where calling me out on my stupidity is against the rules. (It'd be a pretty short read.)

Let's see... Sorry, Fox. Sorry, Kikinit. Sorry, Fox (again). To Blid, Namlia, and Bede, I don't think I've said anything dumb to you guys in a while. Just wait a few turns; it's bound to happen sooner rather than later.

namliaM · Apr 21, 2006

GreyFox said:
Variant Reminder: Science-City must prioritize Monastry buildings.

I thought we could favour military anywhere over the specialist buildings?

Kikinit said:
EDIT: I just selected a sword held down the alt and hovered over the city. The odds of a sword winning are 0.7% and an axeman 0.4%. Not quite good enough for me. I will pillage until we can get some catapults together.

Make sure to pillage anything we are not wanting atm, and to leave improvement (cottages etc mainly) that we want for our own....

Kikinit's Log said:
This screenshot is just to show you all what the odds for taking on a fortified longbow without any promotions in a city with 50% cultural defense bonus. Only 0.7% odds for a swordsman and 0.4% for an axeman. You'd definitely blunt your weapons on that city.

And for the easy part we forget all about the first strike thingy...

Kikinit's Log said:
Axeman defeats (2.45/5): Mongolian Longbowman (2 for 0) And who said he won't attack with longbows?

Kids, dogs and CIV AI will allways make you look like complete idiots.... :rotfl:

Kikinit's Log said:
I did this trade with JC. I traded a few cheap techs for currency. Seemed ok to me.

I wouldnt have traded Alpha if at all avoidable.
For 1 it isnt that cheap, 2 it allows JC to trade as well... :nono:

Kikinit's Log said:
I traded the currency I got from JC for calendar from Qin. No one else will be reasonable in their trades, so thats about it for the moment.

Trading a free tech for yet another... Good one...

Kikinit's Log said:
And now bloody Qin comes demanding things. He's a bit close and powerful to piss off at the moment so I say ok. Don't forget to cancel this in 10 turns.

We seem to be in 'popular' demand, we have an extra sheep so we dont need to be in a hurry to cancel it. But if we can get coins instead... all the better

Kikinit's Log said:
Current city production.

Ah... More military

Grayfox's reply said:
Well played, Kikinit!

I second that.... tho the log is a bit thin

Blid said:
Think namliaM had to do with some warmongering after all

Ouch I have no problem warring... but Now I have (offcourse) 2 turnsets up... (Yes Gots It)

@Rex: We all do stupid things... Just read mine above

Kikinit · Apr 21, 2006

namliaM said:
I wouldnt have traded Alpha if at all avoidable.

I did this because one of the AI has already got literature so we definitely have no monopoly on it and because I don't think things through enough

. On the positive side it actually gave us calendar as well.

On the pillaging, I was targetting his special resources to give him happiness or health hits in his cities and the mini SoD heading north was to cut the horses off so we don't get knights or something coming at us soon. With his parity with axes and swords + longbowman, I thought it wise to send a fairly large stack so deep into his territory.
.

namliaM · Apr 22, 2006

Kikinit said:
On the pillaging, I was targetting his special resources to give him happiness or health hits in his cities and the mini SoD heading north was to cut the horses off so we don't get knights or something coming at us soon. With his parity with axes and swords + longbowman, I thought it wise to send a fairly large stack so deep into his territory.
.

Resources is good allways, cause they can easily be reconnected when/if we deside to keep/resettle some territory.

But regrowing Cottages is a pain, I only pillage them If I know/think it is not going to be part of my territory any time (soon-ish) I will pillage Cottages, but nothing ... evolved...

namliaM · Apr 22, 2006

Lets do it different this time, there is not really that much to report so lets start with the save

Spoiler autolog :

Ok so now that is down, Lets go back to the start. The previous leader sure did leave us in a pickle. I do not like these odds, so I hold on to the fortifications and Archer promoted: City Garrison I make sure the city defence is as max as possible...

Also there is a sword comming from the NW... So on the hill is a good position I think.
The Longbow pillages the road as the Sword steps in. Next turn

Axeman loses to: Mongolian Swordsman (0.96/6) 0 -1
Arch... You have to be kidding, well such things happen. The spear cleans up the leftovers.

Spearman defeats (3.24/4): Mongolian Swordsman1 - 1

Our previous leader did some more :smoke:

(it can offcourse not be my fault)as he put 'the stack' to sleep. Luckely good olg Kublai sends some more units to attract my attention

They are swiftly dealt with...
Swordsman defeats (1.68/6): Mongolian Spearman2-1
Spearman defeats (2.32/4): Mongolian Chariot3-1

Next we have a slave driver demanding tribute... Ha! No way... We allready refused you, so I will refuse tribute again ... I wouldnt find it strange if we get a visit sooner or later from JC, trying to claim what he thinks is rightfully his...

And promptly next turn what pops up out the mist and into our view?

Ahem... JC may be last on the score list, but doing 2 wars may just be a bit much....

And thats not really all, we seem to be falling from grace, we left the Top 3 in score

And we also see that we still have open borders with JC... So maybe he is just comming to look?
Next turn the archers dissappear into the fog again, but remember they are out there somewhere to our east. I dont think we have seen the last of them.

The new and less improved city of karakorum, at the moment I thought it was good.... :evil:

A bit later on the mine is also gone... And you cannot really see it because the swords are in the way, but if you note the 2 red dots. Those are cats... We started bombing Karakorum's defences (they were 60%)

namliaM · Apr 22, 2006

Our galleys find the end of Kublai World... This city has quite some defence with 2 City garrison longbows :eek:

Down south everything is 'going south'. In memoriam of nampihW the old and faithfull whip is fetched and used...

The overrun of the whip will be put into a settler. With which we can found my red dot as a production city...

This is what the Karakorum fronline/siege looks like after some bombarding, pillaging and moving around....

We have 4 cats, 2 spears, 3 swords on the scene and an extra Axe allthought that is accross the river...
Our odds are not that good...

The first Catapult does some collateral damage before collapsing to the Longbow.... Catapult loses to: Mongolian Longbowman (4.44/6)3-2

But now the odds atleast are in our favour, but we have 3 cats left, why not use them? Cause I still dont much like the odds... enough, 5 defenders and 6 attackers, best odds 60%... So I send in another cat...

This one got lucky and escapes with its live :cool:

and deals some dammage to, fleeying cats appeartly do not show up on the Autolog?!
3-2 stays, but Odds now up to 82% but still with our best attacker so More cats....

This one is particularly lucky, not only does it survive, but kills the Longbow as well....
Catapult defeats (1.25/5): Mongolian Longbowman 4-2Now this is starting to look promissing, one defender gone and others are damaged. The longbow kill sets up my good feelings and chance the last cat as well.

namliaM · Apr 22, 2006

Bless its soul it survives as well, and to my amazement also kills the Longbow (again) this time even easier it seems...
Catapult defeats (2.60/5): Mongolian Longbowman 5-2

Things sure do have change in the seige of Karakorum... Even more so than I had hoped, First up our best attacker vs their best defender @ 94%

Swordsman defeats (4.86/6): Mongolian Axeman ... thats predictable enough...6-2

Next batter up, second best attacker vs Second best Defender... Odds go down to 88% but still the predictable result Swordsman defeats (2.40/6): Mongolian Longbowman From the capitol sounds a silent but raw voice saying "I like it when a plan comes together" As he lights up... :smoke:

7-2

Just before the capture tho I start to wonder, Should we keep Karakorum or Raze it? I started with the premisse of razing it... Which is why I pillaged a lot.... while bombarding the defenses down.
So I start drawing some lines on the map and figure that the red dot I made is overlapping a lot with Beshbalik and would allmost automaticaly mean we would have to raze Ning-hsia. However keeping both Ning-hsia and Karakorm will net us about 90% of the red dot worth of a production city (Karakorum) and allow us another Science city (near all cottage) Ning-hsia.

So more or less last minute I deside to not raze Karakorum, meaning we have a settler left over now which we will not need to replace Karakorum... This is also the moment I realize, Ouch why did I pillage the landscape ?? Now we need 2 workboats and need to re-mine and re-pasturize ... And we are allready low on workers.

Anyway... To conclude my turnset I make sure to change the 'deal' we have with Qin.

He also had Pigs to offer, but I figure we have enough health for the moment. and have bigger issues on Happyness....
Qin is also willing to do this

But I didnt want to make such a trade without the concensus of the team. There is quite some Cash laying around.... maybe we can sell CoL around? OK it will mostlikely be at to low a price, but we net some nice coins... I think and get some trading boni...

Note that JC is not even willing to trade HBR, I think a DoW from JC is waiting to happen...

Our new property (note the white lines I drew)

In white the food values, in red the hammers after mining and such... We need 6 food to work them hills, which we can get from them clams allone. So we can put watermills or workshops on them floodplains.... Or cottages...
If we want I think we can make this our GP farm. It has mucho food (allowing specialists, even more if we take workers of the mines) and quite some hammers (if we do work the mines) to build us some wonders to help with the GP points. I marked Karakorum as production for now... as that is what it seems to be best suited for if it is not to be a GP Farm...

I also marked Beshbalik as Science... Instead of production... but that is I think still debatable or not? We need to make a desicion soon tho... (see also my next post)

The situation at Old Sarai...

The defences are gone, but I think our forces are a bit low there to take the city.... Notice also that I was unable to repair the damage done by Kublai earlier in my set, due to the low worker count. A worker is on its way tho... We really need to do something about our worker count...

I think I found a spot for our "roge" settler, what do we think?

Our units, please take particular note of the number of workers, 4!

namliaM · Apr 22, 2006

And the last one... our now 7 cities

I broke my own rules a bit, as I thought Forges would help us more in the long run than Units would help us in the short. I may have been off, if I had stuck to building units, now we would have had 3-6 axes more and I would have been able to raze Old Saria by now... Lesson relearned for me... anyway...

I changed BeshBalik to a Monastary (or can a forge go before this in a science city? More hammers means science buildings faster in the end) as I changed the designation to Science why? Ok one more screeny...

The Gem mine will net 5 commerce as do the Dye... The bananas = 2 bonus food, so we can work the Marble (2 commerce) and a mined Hill. Thats allready 17 commerce 'out of the box'. To me that just screams Science....
We can then cottage the rest of the grass leaving us only with 2 plains and 2 more hills. 1 irrigated grass after biology will give 2 food so 2 irrigated grass (total 4 food) is enough to work all the land (minus the water tile).

We will be able to bring over the irragation from Ning hsia which will need some farms as well... Or bring it from Munich or Berlin, in which case we need to Irrigate a Plains field (or 2) but that has the same effect

We need to chain irrigate accros northern Berlin anyway to irrigate that corn and get the extra food. So that may be the smart thing to do...

We currently running only 40% science at +4gpt and 202 gold in the bank.
50% is available at -6 and 60% at -15gpt.
Those setting are good for Civil Service in 6, 6 and 5 turns respectively.

I would raze Old Saria ASAP, but not quite now... and then try and take Ning hsia. Then go for peace. Any more than that will really ruine our economy at the moment.

Workers, Cottages and Courts is what we will need plenty of after the war...
A court in a city will average on about 2gpt at the moment, this means 50% at 0gpt if we have 3 courts.
Missionaries to spread the faith to our 2 cities that are lacking Confusionism and a Prophet to build us a shrine...

GreyFox · Apr 22, 2006

Pretty well played, namliaM! Goodjob capturing the capital of Mongolia!!!

did you say this to that fat bast@rd: "YOU HAVE CHOSEN UNWISELY!" ?

:rotfl:

I thought most of us agreed that Beshalik is a Science city .. with dyes and marble, it can't be anything else

As for Karakorum, tempting as it might be to set it as a GP-Farm, I think it is best left as a Prod. For one, we would need to eliminate Kublai in order to get it to expand to its full BFC, thereby enabling us to farm the floodplains. I don't think we are in a position to do that.

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Roster:
-- GreyFox
-- Blid
-- Kikinit
-- namliaM == just played
-- Bede == UP with 1.61
-- rex_tyranus == On deck

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blid · Apr 22, 2006

namliaM, I find you quite wordy for someone who has not much to report :lol:

And a bit modest ... nicely played :goodjob:

I concur about setting Karakorum as a prod. Turfan is capital and it will be hard to get the FP tiles. We need to take Ning-hsia to breathe a bit. Its culture is overwhelming.

I think we need to navigate east and know more about the world. I am bit dismayed about this continents map where we already know all oppponents with no caravels. Feels more like a panagea map

Bede · Apr 22, 2006

I got it. Being an old warhorse I am tempted to build the army just a little more and just remove Kublai from the game, even if it means razing cities if you all think the economy can stand it....

Good play using those cats to bring the defenders down. As much as I hate to suicide cats, they cost as much as our best city assault force, but do have "withdraw" as an option.

We will see what we see when we see it, in a moment.

Rex Tyrannus · Apr 22, 2006

Bede, you've got my 100% support for eliminating the Kahn menace. I've had a grudge with the name (title) "Kahn" for about three games now.

namliaM · Apr 22, 2006

GreyFox said:
did you say this to that fat bast@rd: "YOU HAVE CHOSEN UNWISELY!" ?

I didnt find that option in the negotiantion screen sorry... But I did try for Feud, but .... Nope...

GreyFox said:
I thought most of us agreed that Beshalik is a Science city .. with dyes and marble, it can't be anything else

Ah, OK it wasnt signed so I wasnt sure... Still my question remains, can a Forge be build there before a lib? More hammers means Lib and Monastary faster = more beakers? I think accoording to the current rules its not allowed, but consider this... Later 'science' cities will need to build a monastary, Lib and University before the forge... Will take them till end game to catch up...

GreyFox said:
As for Karakorum, tempting as it might be to set it as a GP-Farm, I think it is best left as a Prod. For one, we would need to eliminate Kublai in order to get it to expand to its full BFC, thereby enabling us to farm the floodplains. I don't think we are in a position to do that.

1 we dont need the FP we need the clams and we have them
2 If GP farm we build some wonders = mucho culturo pretty soon
3 We need that GP it is one of our strengths and this is as good a GP farm as I have seen yet. In fox01 was pretty good, but I think this one is much better *looks up rulez again* GP-Farm: a city focused on breeding Great Person. => This means no military *at all* ? Meaning wonders wonders wonders and some 'specialist enabling' buildings eg Forge is a must.
4 the blocking culture is ring 3 or even 4 where it will be ring 2 for Karakorum, together with the 'lots' of culture we will be building and the no immediate need for the FPs. I dont see the issue.

Do the math... 2 fishing nets on the clams = +6 food + CC +2 food = +8 food
4 grass mines (-4 food) and 1 plains hill (-2 food) = +2 food. And the food neutral horses
I count size 8 with +2 food and about 17 base hammers (21 with forge) Not to bad I would say, and that is without the FPs. Put in a lib, temple and a wonder or 2 and a specialist here or there... Those FPs will be ours at one point or another. Cultural power or military power, I dont care... they will be ours :evil:

blid said:
I concur about setting Karakorum as a prod. Turfan is capital and it will be hard to get the FP tiles. We need to take Ning-hsia to breathe a bit. Its culture is overwhelming.

I still do not agree, re my list above

bede said:
I got it. Being an old warhorse I am tempted to build the army just a little more and just remove Kublai from the game, even if it means razing cities if you all think the economy can stand it....

Read-reread and rereread, yes its late ... I dont think Kublai has that much left actually...
Just and mostly

Ning shia, which I would take anyway just for good measure (and a good science city) and we are in a good position to take it anyway with the light casualties @ Karakorum.
Old saria, which we will probably raze within the next turnset anyway
Turfan, this one is furthest away... This is a question in my book if we want it at all, we dont have a full map as yet.

Going to long to deep below 50% science is going to get us into trouble isnt it?

bede said:
Good play using those cats to bring the defenders down. As much as I hate to suicide cats, they cost as much as our best city assault force, but do have "withdraw" as an option.

Yep they cost as much which is why I am allways a bit reluctant in using them. Tho I think I have fallen in love with them now... In particular they may die, but they cause damage to multiple units. Where our 'city assault force' would deal only damage to 1 unit. Thus I now officially will build more Cats...

Kublai is allready out of the game for all intend reasons... There is no way in something ...

that he is currently a threat anymore.

Watch out for old JC tho, he is comming sooner or later...

GreyFox · Apr 22, 2006

I should learn to comment only after I look at the save ... I am going to retract most of my earlier comments ...

On eliminating Kublai: I don't know how the power graph is calculated, but look at Kublai's power graph. He is still above us with 3 cities left. I suspect he has quite a respectable stack garrisoned in Turfan. Some AI like to stack up defenses on their capital. I still recommend caution on eliminating Kublai. I would seriously consider get Ningshia, raze Sara, and extort peace.

Concur on keeping Ningshia. We would experience Delphi's cultural poressure initially, but being creative, I don't think that's going to be any problem in the long run.

Concur on razing Old Sara. useless, only offers Iron, which we already have.

After looking at the save, I am starting to agree on having Karakorum as GP-Farm. But the amount of hills is yelling production. It can go both ways, I guess. So suggest tagging it as a production city for now, and change it to a GP-Farm once we built the (Edit:~~Hermitage~~) National Epic :evil:

Colonge still need a missionary, as do Karalorum. Since we are at it, start converting Qin, shall we? Guangzou is yelling for a religion.

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Kikinit · Apr 22, 2006

Don't know whether it's changed since my turns but he had quite a sizeable force in Ning-hsia. That's why I kept a few guys around that area as if he decides to counter with these forces we could lose a city. I guess I could have mentioned that in my report. :smoke:

namliaM, sorry for leaving you in a such a pickle :rolleyes:

. You seemed to have enough troops to do the job. I don't think those troops were put to sleep, they were just set to heal before they stepped out of the jungle. I thought they should have their full power before they left cover.

Anyhow, I have been thinking since the first roster that Grey deliberately put me between you and blid so that my :smoke:

won't screw things up too much

.
.

GreyFox · Apr 22, 2006

Nope, put you in between blid and namliaM just to separate the two of us, so that turns may go a bit faster with two players in Asia and two players in Europe separated.

Rex Tyrannus · Apr 22, 2006

So's that make me the only Yankee in this managerie?

GreyFox · Apr 22, 2006

I believe Cape Cod (Bede) is in US, so in fact i should have interleaved you and Bede as well :crazyeye:

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Rex Tyrannus · Apr 22, 2006

Bede's a chowda-head? I knew I liked that guy for a reason. (Formerly of Attleboro, myself.)

Fox-03 -- Trying to be Special

Make it so ...

280lbs of gross stupidity

Deity

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Make it so ...

Emperor

Deity

280lbs of gross stupidity

Deity

Make it so ...

Emperor

Make it so ...

280lbs of gross stupidity

Make it so ...

280lbs of gross stupidity

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