Fox-03 -- Trying to be Special

Guys, I'm into the save. Why are we running 0% science. It looks like Fox had it set to 0 up in his 1525AD screen shot, but I can't find a rationale. What are we saving for?

Edit:

Hmm...I see we only have 275 in the treasury. Fox, were you oscillating from 0 to 100 every turn? Way too much MM for me.
 
We need the money to upgrade macemans to grenadier.

Well, Phffbbtt! I already played and upgraded narry a mace. We have two new cities to specialize and...well...You don't want me to give everything away do you?
 
Turn 0

The cook has flown, huh? Probably got scared of all of this manly warfare and didn’t want to break a nail. No bother. We don’t need no steenking…er…cook. We’ve the blood of the vanquished to drink. Well, that and beer. Blood really does need a chaser after all.

Anyhow, the cook’s gone and he put me in charge. He fired all the nerds in the hopes that we can teach mace-wielding thugs to throw bombs. Perhaps that’s why the cook no longer works here. We can churn out a Grenedier every two turns in Munich and another every turn somewhere else. I veto this no-science variant.

Speaking of variant, let’s check the builds…
Berlin (Sci) and has all the science building we can build.
Hamburg (Sci) ditto
Munich (Prod) and dropping units out like third-generation welfare moms
Cologne (Hyb)
Frankfurt (Fin) is building a bank. I add a grocer to the queue.
Beshbalik (Sci) is building research. Not sure why, but I leave it alone in case the cook has some plan.
Karakorum (GP) switched from bank to National Epic
Essen (Sci) is building a harbor. Not remembering the rules, I switch to monastery. But then I remember and switch it back.
Turfan (Fin) and doing everything it’s supposed to
Antium has no specialty so I assign it to production. It’s only got one hammer, but it really only has one of everything until Caesar coughs up his last salad.
Rome has no specialty so I make it GP.
Guangzhou is bringing in 18C 23F and 14P so I make it a science specialty. However, it’s two turns from completing a caravel so I let it do so.
Holcomb I assigned to science and I switched builds from a courthouse to a library.
Shanghai is still in rebellion so I don’t assign it anything.
I look at the sliders and wonder if Fox was running 0% science because our max of 20% was just too painful to look at. Whatever, I bump us to 20% science, 20% culture and war wariness is still threatening to make red shirts of our farmers. Some whips might help, but I decide a quick end to the war is better.

Press enter already!

Turn 1 1555

Munich finishes a Pike and begins a Grenadier. My lone cat next to Beijing takes the defenses down to 42%. We have a few troops there, but the bulk of our cats arrive next turn. We can wait.

IBT Asoka begins a golden age.

Turn 2 1560

Berlin: Confucian Missionary => Grenadier. Cologne: Harbor => Knight. Turfan: Market => Bank. Guangzhou: Caravel => Granary.

The Battle for Beiging

The catapult contingent arrives and throw rocks until the scoreboard says 6%. I have two Raider II Grenadiers and a Raider II. All three take out Longbow defenders at 98%+ odds. An non-promoted Grenadier relieves Qin of a Maceman at 91% and a Raider II Maceman of ours kills a Musketman at 74.3%. All that’s left is to mop up a lone Catapult and the city is ours.

Qin gives us a lovely parting gift of 158 Gold. I take the money and keep the city.

Moving on…Why do we have so many Caravels? I just use them to explore and spy.

Turn 3 1565

Munich finishes a Granary and builds a Knight. Then Shanghai hangs the rebels and begins a Courthouse to put a dent in that -12 maintenance cost. Shanghai comes with Stonehenge, Chichen Itza, and Notre Dame, none of which work anymore.

When Shanghai expanded, it illuminated a tile on which sat an enemy Mace. Fortunately, I had already sent a Grenadier that way to aide in the city’s defense. Our bomb-chucker makes quick work of the ball-twirler. Incidentally, the “Maceman” graphic isn’t wielding a mace. Those are morning stars. Go figure.

Lastly, a Confucian Missionary spreads his word to Guangzhou.

Turn 4 1570

Asoka asks to trade us Ivory for Iron. The window on War Elephants has closed so I say no. Hamburg finishes a Market and begins a Theater. Happiness is becoming a problem so I check to see what Qin will give us to stop raping his children. He offers Theology, Paper, some gold and his map. It’s a nice offer, but it’ll still be there after we take Macao.

I’ve got a lot of workers standing idle so I make them build emergency farms to slow the starvation in Shanghai. We might want to turn a few of these into cottages later.

Lastly, it looks to me like I’ve just circumnavigated. I hear no weird music, but I think that often comes at the front of the next turn. We’ll see.

Turn 5 1575

Hamburg builds a Theater and starts a Confucian Missionary. Munich makes a Knight out of clay and fires up the kiln on a Grenadier.

Shanghai’s borders pop, so our workers have 12 more tiles to corrupt. Yay!

Also, apparently a few cats arrive on scene at Macau. This is weird. If a galley is selected, the defense says 25%. Select a cat, and it’s 100%. Toggle a Grenedier and it’s 25% again. Whatever, I have 6 catapults one tile away.

Now, whatever I select, the defenses say 25%. The Battle for Macau is upon us…

A Raider II Grenadier offs a Longbow (just how long is your bow, sir?) at 98%. A Combat II Knight takes a Chuck over his knee at 78%. Finally another Knight mops up the remaining Catapult and Macau plus 128 gold are ours.

I decide to make peace with Qin. He gives us Theology, Paper, his map, 60 gold, and 1 gold/turn. We’ll probably remove him outright soon enough, but let’s let the wariness die down for a bit.

Looking at his map, Qin has two cities left. One’s on ice and the other is right next to Louis’ borders to our east. Qin has also scouted the new world and it ain’t worth diddley. With peace, our unhappiness goes way down (about 7 in most cities) so I kill the culture slider and bring science up to 50%. That’s a -37/turn deficit, but we have 630 in the register.

Before hitting enter, I remember that I never got the circumnavigation music. Reading back in the log, I see that JC circumnavigated in 1300. :( Weren’t we kicking the snot out of him around then?

Turn 6 1580

Cologne: Knight => Bank. Karakorum builds the National Epic and begins an Aqueduct to counter the green fumes.

Turn 7 1585


Hamburg: Confused Mistress => Confiscated Minister. Caesar shows up demanding Chemistry. :lol: Good one, guy. Munich swaps one Grenadier for another and Essen finishes a Harbor and begins a Monastery.

Turn 8 1590

Berlin: Grenadier => Miss Confucius while another Confucian Miss spreads her “religion” in Shanghai.

IBT Asoka asks for a map swap. I see no need to disappoint him. (Afterwards, I realize that I may have pissed off Louis for that. F--- the frog. He declared on us.)

Turn 9 1595

Hamburg makes one Confucian Missionary and begins another. Munich goes Grenadier => Catapult and Guangzhou goes Grenadier => Catapult. All turnset, I’ve been sending new troops up north in case Rome forgets its place. This is when I realized that we didn’t have any Cats up there if we needed them. Also, Guangzhou builds a Granary and moves to a Library.

IBT The aforementioned frog sacks (and keeps) Nanjing.

Turn 10 1600

Munich: Cat => Cat. Karakorum builds an Aqueduct and Rome finishes a Confucian Temple. In both cases, I forgot to write down what they started. Beijing comes out of rebellion and I begin a courthouse. Beijing has the Pyramids and Great Library. Macau also ends its resistance and begins a lighthouse.

Summary:


I've been sending new troops north to protect against JC's increasing hatred for us, but I don't have anything near an invasion force up there. Our grand army is camped in Beijing and I suggest we raze his last city when we meet our 10-turn requirement.
 

Attachments

  • new_world.jpg
    new_world.jpg
    53.1 KB · Views: 75
Come on Fox, my save's been posted a whole two minutes. You do realize you need to post a roster, right?
 
rex_tyranus said:
Come on Fox, my save's been posted a whole two minutes. You do realize you need to post a roster, right?
Yeah come on 'lazy' fox... :lol:

Nice set rex... I was a little long in comming... but nice... I think I would would have not made peace with Qin, knowing he had 2 cities left.... Taken the one more...

About the 0 science thing, I suggest reading back a bit to Bede's turnset...
 
namliaM said:
About the 0 science thing, I suggest reading back a bit to Bede's turnset...

I'm scratching my head. Where does Bede talk about taking science to 0? I saw "Enough in the kitty to upgrade maces" and "maces will be unstoppable when upgraded to grenadiers".

But I looked at the situation. We had enough grenadiers already. (I got the impression that Fox had upgraded many.) Then I looked at our production. We can make grenadiers at an alarming rate. Why sacrifice all of our research--especially when we're already behind--for something we already have?

I think I would would have not made peace with Qin, knowing he had 2 cities left.... Taken the one more...

I didn't want to make peace either. However, it was a battlefield decision.
1) War wariness was getting ridiculous.
2) The one city of Qin's I could see was on ice.
3) I didn't know how many cities he had left.
4) Any others were far away and might have stretched our forces.​

I figured a regroup was well needed.
 
Got it though no roster set up yet ;)

nice going Rex. Thank you, u left one city for me to ...raze. Maybe Louis will take care of it before I do

I see we are researching steel, :lol: no doubt about your intentions :hammer: . I guess JC is next target or do you prefer to go for big fish (or big frog)
I personally will not go against Louis until we're on par technologically. I fear the tech hole with Asoka will go deeper and Alex is not willing to fight him (enough on his hands already)

I find the new world a bit tight :rolleyes:

Civics related, we control the pyramids and we have many choices.
I am thinking mercantilism is a must. Then there is representation to help with research
Bureaucracy is nice too, as Berlin has 55 base commerce (+50% = 27) and vassalage gives us only 20 free units. That is without counting the prod bonus. And the research modifiers

When going to war, then maybe police state/vassalage/theocracy combo is the way to go

I am suggesting these revolts though this will probably cost me 2 anarchy turns during my turnset :cry: Guess someone will have to do it

I am not playing before tommorow night, so y'can have a look at the save before I start messing things up
 
We will be able to remove JC from this planet in fairly quick time. The war was only paused with him because Louis and the Chinaman declared on us.

We can take out JC and still have enough forces to take the chinese capital when 10 turns are over.
 
Roster, as demanded:

-- GreyFox
-- Rex == Just Played
-- blid == UP
-- kikinit == On Deck
-- namliaM
-- Bede

Rex: yes, we can build grenadiers at an alarming rate, but you can't produce CRII grenies, alarming rate or not. Whereas, you can produce CRII maces (at a even more alarming rate), and later promote them to grenies.

Don't worry about research when we are at war. Now that the war is over, yes, rebuild our economy and up our research.

Good turns, rex. Oh, I think I have missed the report on circumnavigation being awarded already ...

--

I won't be so quick to return to war. Let our people absorb in the new cities, get them running up and nice so that they contribute to our economy. More importantly, give us time to let the WW dies off.

One thing we can do abt Louis and Asoka is to (re-)start war between them ...

--
 
One more thing, good job with the confusing of cities .... .... we do have a confused shrined, don't we?

About finding out how many cities Qin have, you can always click on him, and check how many cities are listed in the dialogue box. AFAIK, all cities except the capital will be listed, some in red, some not.

I will look at the save, and perhaps more comments forthcoming from this grumpy fox, later.

--
 
Grumpy fox has looked at the save, and here are my humble suggestions:

(1) the enginner at Beshbalik should be relieved of duty ... let it grow.

(2) Holcomb is working on all hammers tile ... I suggest switching it to maximize growth

(3) I suggest veto-ing all our confusician missionaries and switch to taoist instead. We control a taoist shrine, but not a confucian shrine.

(4) Suggest re-designating Guangzhou as FIN instead of SCI ... due to the shrine

(5) Suggest designating Beijing as SCI, and Macau as production, Shanghai can be a hybrid.

In all, Asoka's GNP might be scary, but I am not too worried. We are well leading in terms of Prod, Food, Land, and Pop. We would overtake Asoka once we rebuild. All we need to do is grow, once Beshbalik, Holocomb, Beijing grows to a point where it can work on all cottages, we would be able to compete with Asoka.

Civics wise, we definitely need to get out of vassalage since we are no longer in units building mode. I agree with blid on Bureacracy and representations. Not too sure about Mercantilism though. Blid, why do you think its a must? Is a specialist in every city very helpful? Must weigh it against if we have lot of foreign trade route or not ( I doubt so). OR is a possiblity, so is Pacifism.

-
 
We don't have the confucian shrine? I guess I just assumed we had popped a prophet somewhere along the line. Didn't we?
 
@Grey : Mercantilism is a must cuz it's the only thing we can run for now (apart from the basic civic, whatever it is). We don't have economics to run free market. I would weigh it on how long it takes to get economics and number of anarchy turns. 1 specialist per city can be huge, especially with representation.
I hope bureaucracy+representation will cost 1 turn. Adding a third civic will certainly add extra turn of anarchy.

concur about Shrine = finance. It seems like you been renaming cities. How do you do this ?

On war matters, taking Qin last city can be done quickly and would relieve us of "yearn to join our icy hole mother land" from chinese cities. JC has 4 cities, I would take a caravel tour to check his forces. Maybe we should delay his killing a bit, but don't forget we have police state now. War weariness can be dealt with more easily

For the confusing shrine, is there no hope of getting a prophet in Karakorum ?
Anyway, we need to build some taoist monasteries before SC Meth is researched
 
Mercantilism is a must cuz it's the only thing we can run for now

Newer isn't always better. Mercantilism brings a cost per turn in both upkeep and loss of foreign trade routes. That said, we have 16 cities. With representation, thats 16 * 3 = 48 free beakers plus X * 3 additional where X is the number of free specialists who are scientists. We're not getting that yield out of Decentralization (I think).

Anyway, we need to build some taoist monasteries before SC Meth is researched

This is a huge point. Just because we have a shrine for Taoism, doesn't mean we have the means to build the missionaries. We have so many Confucian cities in this map, I'd keep building those missionaries. Stay in officially Confused mode and do a lot of religious spying. Further, any of our cities with Confucianism will gain from any of the religious civics. (At least OR, Theocracy, or Pacifism.)

I recommend finding the next GP city and turning on a bunch of priests. Let's get a prophet in that holy city and start cashing in.

Alternately, we could just capture all the other holy cities like we did in Fox02 and who cares after that.

relieve us of "yearn to join our icy hole mother land"

This board needs a "milk shooting out of your nose" emoticon. That was hilarious, blid. And a very valid point. I really made peace just to regroup and heal. (Plus the free techs weren't bad, either.)
 
To rename cities go to the city screen and click on the city name bar.

IIRC I went looking for a place to raise up a prophet and I think we needed a temple, so I think I started a temple so we could assign a priest to that task. We also need to turn off any other GP generator while the prophet is abuilding, or minimize them, so their GP doesn't compete with her.

And I'm not losing my mind:

hisself said:
Turn 202 (1420 AD)
Karakorum(GP) begins: Confucian Temple as we could use the prophet points
Tech learned: Gunpowder
 
Karakorum's got the National Epic now, so a GP should be double quick. However, looking at the save, Rome's got 34 GP points per turn and will pop one next turn. It will not be a prophet though. After that, it'll either be Rome again or Frankfurt (who does have about a 50% chance at a prophet).
 
We could always whip the hell out of Rome, and release the specialists currently there. Specialist is the reason why Rome has higher GP point/turn, and why Karakorum does not.

I am not saying don't ever build anymore confucian missionary. Sure, confused states still vastly out-numbers the taoist states. SO, we will stay in confucian when we switched to OR or pacifism. But without a confused shrine, spreading confused religion is not reaping us the best benefit. Taoist is.

True about getting rid of Qin will help somewhat ... let's do it ... its atmost a 4 turns war (2~3 turns to reach the neighboring tile of the city, 1 turn to kill it).

I am convinced with mercantilism. I agree its benefits is more than decentralism (esp with representation, yes).

--
 
Kill the GP points at Rome and stick with the Great Prophet at Karakorum.

And finish Qin.
 
Back
Top Bottom