Free GP Imbalance?

[Ianwill93]

Would it be completely imbalanced if they added immediate free great people to certain techs for certain civs? Along the lines of Babylon's UA.

For instance, it doesnt make sense to me why Egypt doesnt get a free Engineer at Masonry or something. Maybe Greece could get a free great merchant if they pick up Patronage? Obviously not all civs would have a relevant GP so would this completely skew balance?

 

[apocalypse105]

Getting a great engenier is overpowered... Just instant wonder what you want

Actually I had thought about if they ever wanted to add the Dutch empire it would be just like babylon:

Earn great merchants at double rate and recieve a great merchant when discovering currency and banking
Or maybe only currency

Would be cool and will make a different style of gameplay more manor houses or use it for citie states or golden ages

If my brother could make a mod for it would be cool but i doubt he can make someting like that who knows

 

[ShahJahanII]

Getting a great engenier is overpowered

Actually I had thought about if they ever wanted to add the Dutch empire it would be just like babylon:

Earn great merchants at double rate and recieve a great merchant when discovering currency and banking

Or maybe only currency

Would be cool and will make a different style of gameplay more manor houses or use it for citie states or golden ages

If my brother could make a mod for it would be cool but i doubt he can make someting like that who knows

Some Dutch patriotism eh?
Anyway, your suggestion is identical to Kush in this thread.

Coincidence?

 

[Louis XXIV]

I think Free great people would make sense, but I would use them as part of a race. First to reach Acoustics? Free Artist. First to Replaceable Parts? Free Great Engineer. And so on (the only thing I probably wouldn't do is Free Great Scientist. That would already give the tech leader an advantage).

ETA: If the Dutch were to get a free great merchant, Banking would make more sense. The same argument could be made for giving it to the English to help boost them up a bit.

 

[PasturedCow]

This seems too strong to me. It further enhances science civs like Babylon and Korea. They'll just run away with the game more.

I wouldn't mind seeing some bonus though for being first. Like say the first to banking gets a free bank in their capital.

 

[Bezurn]

I think free great people for discovering a tech first is a bad idea. There is usually enough incentive to discover non military techs early to boost your economy and unlock buildings that you want to build to suit your perceived victory goal. That is why I don't buy the DLC as some of them are highly unbalanced (bablyon, not sure on korea, but impression is yes).

Now a free building or unit I could live with for discovering a tech, as that would add incentive to beeline to certain objectives more to counter balance RA abuse. There are a number of ways to generate a free GP (liberty finisher, Hagia Sophia, and the Patronage policy).

If you are playing Egypt and need a free GE to rush a wonder then you are doing something wrong. 75% of the time I start with marble and can easily snag the 'mids or 'henge depending if my land warrants a tall or wide approach.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Doesn't have to be a great person. Still, an artist or merchant isn't terrible (it's not like we're talking about scientists or engineers). If you break the bonuses on very different branches, you can beeline and get them.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Costless Great People are generally a bad idea, and this includes the free GS for Babylon. They create needless balancing headaches.

You could make an argument for stripping Egypt of its bonus and giving them a free GE at Masonry instead, though I think that's more than a little overpowered...especially given the recent buff to the Pyramids. Two turbo Workers for free at turn 20 is...ah...strong.

The "first to discover" GP were a bad idea in CIV. They institutionalized the rich (in ) getting richer. That is a mechanic that doesn't need to be exported to CiV. Conferring a free building isn't as game-breaking, but it's still an example of codifying existing leads - which only results in deciding the game earlier at the margin.

 

[Ianwill93]

I guess it would be imbalanced, but certain civs that have to do alot of work to use their UAs get a reputation of uselessness on higher difficulties. If you give them advantages like a free GE, free CS ally, etc it'd give them more options on higher difficulties. Both the civs I mentioned are lower tier so it' have a balancing effect. (sort of )
The real problem i suppose is that Babylon gets that free early GS!!!!!!!!

 

[Martin Alvito]

Honestly, the balancing headaches with Babylon don't derive from what most players do with the free GS - a free Academy early on.

The balancing problems relate to what you can potentially do with an extra bulb that other civs can't produce at that point in the game. Efforts to balance the game have to take that possibility into account, which in turn imposes significant and needless limits upon game balance.

 

[Ianwill93]

Well my true question regarding the argument is why dont they give the civs that require more effort to use their UAs on higher difficulties an easy button? Both Babylon and Korea have UAs that benefit for the now as well as the future. Cant they at least give the other civs a powerful option similar to the free RAs and GS that Korea and Babylon get respectively?
If you want/expect a civ like Egypt to build Wonders, why not give them a definite one? Same for Greece and CityStates

 

[seasnake]

GS should be changed to give a free tech up to a number of beakers, like the Great Engineer gives hammers up to a certain amount. Right now they are ridiculously powerful in the modern era, techs are expensive and you can just insta-tech to any of them.

I also agree that the Dutch UA should be a merchant equivalent to what Babylon does, however I'd have the free GM come with Currency. The sooner you get something the better it is in the game.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

I agree with Seasnake- and also suggest changing it so a GP of a certain type needs to be used within (say) five turns. Just enough to position it - make it more difficult to rush a heap of techs or wonders.

 

[Gehennas]

At this moment, I think, even free GP after builiding HS is imbalanced.

 

[Becomedeath]

I don't think Babylons free GS is anything to get upset about to be honest, I'm more concerned about their 50% GS rate UA.

Giving them a boost at writing means they can get a massive lead anyway, but to then compound that by reducing the cost of further GS's means that you can basically mass produce them.

The single free GS on his own doesn't create a big problem, but the effect of that GS being given at that time and the subsequent advantage of a wonder hungry city can mean that Babylon is getting a GS every dozen turns, which by the late can put you a good 20-30 techs ahead of your competition if you use them wisely.

Start small and expand rapidly after building the PT is my strategy with Babylon, and I'm yet to have a game where I don't win with an absurd lead.

"Fire your arrows at my Mech Infantry! Mwhahahaha!"

If their UA became something like, "every wonder built contributes ~50 GS points to the capital", then it would give a similar effect and still leave them science-centric, but force Babylon to focus on Wonder production, which in turn causes wonder-envy which means wars, which are hard to fight if you have focused too much on producing wonders..." now that, to me, is more balanced.

 

[elprofesor]

If you ask me, a part of the problem is that GS and GE are "notably" stronger than the other GP, GE being a bit more rare (and powerful), usually. I don't think most people think that a free GM, GA or GG are particularly game-breaking. But as has been said, try that with the other two GP and you create a heavy imbalance if they come early enough.