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Fulano's MoO2Civ Minimod

Discussion in 'Civ4 - MOO2Civ' started by fulano, Feb 18, 2010.

  1. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I've included links to the minimod on the DL pages of patches 4j-l, which are still getting plenty of downloads, both here and via Strategy Informer. (Perhaps I should upload it there as well? Downloads so far seem almost as low as originally via post #1 here, but this might change after the new Civ4 custom creations list is published.)
     
  2. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I've been thinking about this:

    The problem, I think, is that currently Cruisers (which also require a Capital Shipyard) tend to become available after Battleships, while they're actually less powerful.
     
  3. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Yes, but they are carriers and use AI_CARRIER. They are used as support ships (and do it really good).
     
  4. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    OK, but in MoO Battleships are carriers as well, no?
     
  5. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    But in Civ4 they carry missiles OR fighters.

    I may find out how to merge promotion code which would allow them to apply new types of cargo so you could take a "fighter bays" promotion and carry fighters.

    And anyway they use different AI.
     
  6. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I was planning on letting any ship get the fighter bays promotion that would just add cargo space so you could put fighters on any ship.
     
  7. CyberChrist

    CyberChrist You caught my attention

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    Perhaps the concept of having Missiles as seperately produced units ought to be reconsidered?

    Personally I think it would work just as well if the various Missiles was made into promotions that allowed limited ranged attack instead.
     
  8. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I think I agree with you both: already there are various Missile promotions in v. 5.0. Having them produced separately now seems a bit redundant. (Not to mention it looks kind of silly having an entire star system produce 1 missile in 1-2 turns that can only hurt an attacker, not kill it.)
     
  9. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    I personally thought that Missile Base could be turned into an immobile unit which cannot be airdroped. I am pretty sure that it should be able to fend off enemy ships alone and bombard ships around. Think of star base with smaller str. sitting in a system.
     
  10. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I do think the missile units come in handy, and they simulate missile bases launching at ships from afar. I don't build them though, a bomber takes as much time to build and they are reusable.

    An immobile unit in a system, that is interesting. How could you limit the number built? Maybe making them semi expensive?
     
  11. CyberChrist

    CyberChrist You caught my attention

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    It is easy enough to limit number of any unit produced in each system (1 per system, 1 per populated planet, 1 per population ... or whatever). In my project it is already possible to construct just 1 starbase/battlestation/star fortress in each system using regular system production, but they are limited to 1 of all basetypes per system.

    I suppose it would make sense make Missile Bases and Ground Batteries units and then allow only 1 of each per populated planet in system. They could then gain appropriate promotions according to current missile/beam weapon tech levels (with automatic updates).

    There is no real reason to make them immobile though, just need to set all other terrains/features than Solar System as impassable to them.


    And while we are debating planetary defences then I for one would love to get rid of all the current PDF units - as they really don't belong in the MOO2 setting IMO.

    Having said that then I am still undecided about how best to implement the original MoO2 ground forces: Militias, Marines, Powersuits, Armors and Battleoids. Perhaps the easiest solution would be to turn them into seperate levels of the Barracks building rather than make them into units (offering increased strength to their local missile base and ground battery).
     
  12. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I did have the ground troops set to be impassible in space but if a troop transport was present they would be automatically loaded on the transport, which is why we made them immobile, that way they still couldn't move and got the fortify bonus.

    I was thinking of making the ground troop units have their usual star defense bonus but change transports so they have a bonus vs ground troops instead of stars. Then I have ships set to defend first against ships first. That way when you attack you have to destroy the fleet first then the troops are left over that you need transports to beat. I haven't tested it to see how this setup does though.
     
  13. CyberChrist

    CyberChrist You caught my attention

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    Dosn't logic imply that Troop Transports should be able to that though? ;)
     
  14. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    The problem with that was that the troops weren't available to defend the planet once built, they had to be unloaded first, the troops would otherwise just go down with the troop transport.

    Though it might not be a bad idea to give a troop transport the ability to defend a city....
     
  15. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    IMO troop transports (now Invasion Ships) should have no attack/defense at all and ground units should attack remaining ground troops when invading a system. Don't know if that's feasible though: ground troops should then have a 1 move only (on-off transports).
     
  16. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    It'd be great to be able to capture stars with ground troops but I'm not sure how the AI would handle that. I do want to mess around and test that feature but I probably won't have time until like October to look into that. I was wondering if you unload a troop onto a defenseless star it will capture it.

    Another idea for that is to make the 8 squares around stars something other than space (like call it solar system, but still act the same as space). Then the ground troops could be set to move in solar system but not in space, that way you could transport and unload them, capture the star with your troops, and it would be cool!

    An update on the minimod:
    I've finished adding lots of new things for minimod 2.0. Lots of other things I wanted to add but I couldn't because the features require to be coded into each building and i didn't want to do that yet. So far I just want to change XMLs.

    -New Victories:
    -Orion Victory: Build 10 Orion gate pieces to win.
    -Value Victory: Spread founded value to 75% of galaxy
    -Commerce Victory: Needs scripting to work
    -Antarian Victory: Needs scripting to work

    -New Buildings
    -Megafluxers: National wonder, +10 XP
    -Cloning Center: +10% food
    -Telepathic Traning Center: +50%? Espionage
    -Microbiotics: +1 Pop
    -Psionics Center: +10% espionage, +1% everything

    -New Promotions
    -Time Warp Facilitator: blitz
    -Gyro Destabalizer: promotion against larger ships
    -Rangemaster Targeting Unit: +first strikes
    -Quantum Detonator: +100% Kamikaze Attack, resist capture
    -Antarian (barbarian trait promotion): -80% heal, -1 movement, +50% Kamikaze, +200% experience

    -New Techs
    -Evolutionary Mutation: Free tech, health & happiness

    -New Units
    -Inquisitor: Removes non-state values from stars, from the Thomas War mod. (needs scripting to work)

    Now I just intend to spread out the civics from the tech tree, re-balance the units and promotions and release it.

    I agree with Deon that the Sociology tree should be removed, and techs do need moved around and cleaned up but I won't get around to that this spring. I've got a huge list of stuff to test and play with and change but I won't get much of that done. I mostly just want to release this version of the minimod, patch up the bugs and make some tweaks then I will start into my summer job. I won't be able to mod so much then because of lack of time and lack of internet but I still want to follow along and see what developments come about during the summer. With all these script fixes and changes I don't see a point in me changing the XMLs further until the other changes are made anyway.
     
  17. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Chieftain

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    Since it can be turned off it doesn't matter to me, but it seems like the values wouldn't make sense as a unifying factor that would make you win. Like if your value was power, other people who want power would probably be your competition, not your ally. Same with wealth, you want it all for yourself. It makes sense for actual religions because it's a loyalty beyond your nationality, but sharing value like power probably wouldn't make two vastly different alien races forget all their differences and unite.
    Cloning center should probably be more like the granary. The rest I've though would work best as nation projects that give the effect permanently, but I don't know how to do that.
    I like all those, especially since some of them I thought of before but never did anything with. The Quantum Detonator I wanted to get the pyre zombie effect from FfH2, but haven't. Also the Antarian -80% heal I thought would be good for peoples complaints that barbarians are too strong. I'm wondering if a kamikaze % will actually make it easier to capture them because they lose at least 50% of battles. I'm not sure though. Someone should experiment, by setting it to 100% and attack a weak unit with 100% capture and see if a kamikaze gets captured.
     
  18. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I did change the cloning center to give +10% starting food like the granary does. I might lower the % food bonus to like 5%. I want that bonus included though because a stagnant star would be able to start growing again when building the cloning center.

    I added the kamikaze because the antarians in the game only attacked and left so I figured it simulated the antarians well. the +50% is strength, because antarian ships were much tougher than normal ships. They will die after their next battle.

    I do wonder about the +200% experience for Antarians, is it beneficial? I don't know if they can even get any promotions other than the rank, and they'll only gain experience if they defend because they will always die when they attack.

    I also wonder about capturing kamikazes...
     
  19. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    (Early) Antaran ships are also faster than normal ships, not slower:

    The Quantum Detonator, while perfecty able to function attackwise, is a last resort destruction act in MoO, when a ship is about to be destroyed anyway. Although the idea of a kamikaze attack suits the Antarans perfectly, as they only destory, not capture colonies. (Not sure how this could be implemented though...)
     
  20. Sirnik

    Sirnik Chieftain

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    Maybe tweak the costs of running a colony for Barbarian civ so that it never brings them any income/science/whatever and on the other hand, give them a bonus for raising a colony (I'm not very sure about how barbarians work, but it mustn't be very difficult from civs)? So that it would be more profitable for a barbarian to raise a colony than to hold on to it.
     

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