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Fulano's MoO2Civ Minimod

Discussion in 'Civ4 - MOO2Civ' started by fulano, Feb 18, 2010.

  1. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Upload whenever you like: my MP testgame fell through, because apparently, after reinstalling, my MP partner now can't load any MOO2Civ mod version... :crazyeye: (Frustrating, to say the least...)

    There was a reason for this: I think I changed BS II & III moves at some point to compensate for the fact that they in all likelihood started when you've already discovered 1-2 techs that increase base moves.
     
  2. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    That is so weird that this mod just decides to hate some computers for no apparent reason! I feel lucky that I haven't had any problems!


    I see, that does make sense.


    I'm still fixing other minor problems, mostly with gameplay now.
     
  3. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    Version 1.5.4b is uploaded. It is much better in my opinion. Many of the promotions were still useless and I made a lot of tweaks to fix that. I still couldn't get to test the later stages of the game but this version is a pretty good candidate for a final so I can start work on 2.0 for the next revision of MoO2Civ to be released.
     
  4. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Cool! Will check it out. ;)

    EDIT:

    -Reduced number of promotions available to squadrons (they weren't needed really)

    I usually keep the squadrons as they are until I can get the strongest promotion for them. (Things like First Strike didn't seem effective at all against Destroyers for instance.)
     
  5. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    So do I, I only promote them when I think they need the bonus. In MoO2 the only thing that they used was beam weapons, bombs, and armor but I left more than that mostly because i didn't want to spend the time to upgrade them. It's so hard to get experience for them anyway.

    I was thinking of putting something in that will give them experience, like fighter garrisons giving air units experience or something but I haven't planned it out yet. I want to wait for the next MoO2 civ version. :)
     
  6. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    OK. I forgot about that (garrisons + XP); I don't think I've ever seen squadrons gain XP, though I use them a lot. (Whether they're succesful or get beaten doesn't seem to make any difference either.)
     
  7. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    The only time I've had squadrons gain experience is when they defeat other squadrons. For fighters that happens on occasion but for bombers they almost never get the chance to fight, or have the chance to beat a fighter. I've only done it once.

    I have a question about the holo simulators. It gave +20% morale in MoO2 which gives +20% bonus to everything (gold, food, industry, and science). Now in MoO2civ you can build a holo simulator on every planet, but the bonus affects every planet, so if you have five planets, five holo simulators will give a +100% bonus to production, food, gold, etc. I think that allows a person to get way too much of a bonus later in the game, getting 2000 or 3000 production a turn.

    I had two ideas to fix this for minimod 2.0, which do you guys like?:
    -Limit stars to one holo simulator (like the fighter garrison, not sure how to do that yet though)
    -Reduce it's bonus to like 5%
     
  8. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    True.

    I'd go with option B: 5%. I've noticed after midgame production times get ridiculously low for everything, once your systems are pretty much built up. (Like 1-2 turns to build Titans, major buildings, etc.) I was thinking of adding build costs, but this seems much simpler. ;)
     
  9. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    What about research times for mid to later game? I was thinking of adding +5% research to the holo simulator and other similar type buildings but I'm not sure yet if that bonus is needed for the balance of things.
     
  10. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    That's why I play on epic :). If not too quick lategame, normal would be ok.
     
  11. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I see. Understandable.

    I wouldn't do it. The bonuses you already get with the Holo Simulators translate automatically in added research (forgot to mention that: research times are also considerably reduced during midgame, when your systems start to grow). In addition to considering increased build times for units and buildings, increased research cost for mid-and late game techs was also something I've been considering. BTW, Holo Simulators are just one example of production/wealth/research bonuses available throughout the tech tree. If anything I'd be in favour of reducing rather than increasing such bonuses, so as to get a still interesting endgame.
     
  12. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I have noticed many buildings that have a too large bonus, even though they are identical to MoO2's buildings. I want to change them to make the gameplay balanced. Here's what I want to change for v2.0: (unless you think I should change it and make a v1.5.5b? If that is the case I do have a few other balances I wanted to change)

    Holo Simulator: Was +20% everything, change to +5%.
    Pleasure Dome: Was +30% everything, change to +1 happiness
    Robotic factory: Was +20% industry, Change to +5% industry
    Recycling center: Was +20 hammers, change to +10 hammers
    Android Workers: Was +20 everything, change to +5
    On a planet with 100 base industry it was getting +110 hammers, but these changes will only make the bonuse +25 hammers on one planet. (the robotic factory and holo simulators affect every planet in the star so the bonus will still be higher)

    I also want to increase unhealthiness on industry buildings:
    Robo Miner Plant: Was +1, change to +3
    Deep Core Mine: Was +3, change to +5
    Robotic Factory: Was +0, change to +1

    This will make the health buildings more useful, as of right now I think they are almost useless (I only build the recycling center right now), it will also make the survival value more interesting, and people will think twice before building industry buildings.

    Then, if this isn't enough I want to increase ship and squadron costs (not sure how much yet).
    And if unhealthiness is too bad I want to add a few new health buildings that are missing from the MoO2 tech tree (like biomorphic fungi or something).
     
  13. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Agreed on the first, but as concerns:

    I'd like to say that even with current health bonuses unhealthiness becomes an issue in midgame (or you must have really small systems by then); I currently use almost all health buildings. I'd leave the Robotic Factory alone at least. (For one, there isn't a Core Dump to erase all pollution like in MoO II and with the Recycling Center it's currently the only production building that doesn't cause unhealthiness.) But if you add something like the Planetary Core Dumps it might be alright. In principle I like the idea of discouring industry building, but I'm not sure the AI will care all that much - if at all.

    I'm all for increasing ship cost, but not squadron costs (I generally only build 1-2 squadrons per system now anyway). Also, there should be a significant disparity between squadron and space ship costs.

    If you have the time you can upload a pre-2.0 version (to be included with MOO2Civ 5.0) - although there might not be much en lieu of playtesting, as there's still some items I need to add before completion of the upload. So I'll leave that up to you. ;)
     
  14. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I won't upload it yet so it can get tested, plus I don't want to stop my current game, I'd like to actually win for once. :)

    I do usually get unhealthiness in my planets but with the hydroponic farms and soil enrichment i can usually keep the planets growing at about 1 pop every 10 turns which usually is faster than the culture grows. I'm usually producing like 20 more food than I am using a turn, though with the first changes the food production will be reduced so I won't make the change for now unless it seems needed later on. If I do decide to change it I think changing it to +1, +2, and +3 would be better than +1, +3, and +5 unhealthiness.
     
  15. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    That's OK.

    :lol:
     
  16. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Let me quote myself about the tech tree:
    Also about the speed: Star trek has an awesome speed which is called "Quick Marathon". It has research and everything from marathon, but build speed is like normal.

    I must say, it is awesome. You have a lot of time to play with your researched projects and they don't go obsolete when you just start to build them.


    Marathon may be too much though...

    I think a reduced number of techs (or, rather, less "branches") + epic speed research and normal speed build times should be an awesome game setting.
     
  17. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I see you're one post ahead of me... :p
     
  18. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    I've just played another game and I think removal of "diplomacy->civics->civics->..." line would help AI a lot. While they beeline civics I beeline Titans and crush them :).

    Also I don't feel like it's right to have all civics in one tech.

    And it wouldn't be hard to remove this line and to move things in different branches.

    Example:
    ***open borders to***
    - computer (which would mean you have some kind of translator to set all necessary talks about the rite of passage)

    ***map trading to***
    - the tech which gives increased sensors promotion (ability to scan known space to retransfer it to another race)
    or
    - some computer tech (like a better software/hardware which can compress and transfer your whole archives and pass them to your neighbour's datalinks).

    The current problem is the "spread" of the tech tree. If you've played FFH, there every branch has its own different combat units so you can get any path. Here the top path guarantees that you win while other are optional. I would be happy if you could mix/cross the techs a bit to allow access to various combat units via different paths to avoid utter destructions of those who tech "a bit wrong" :).
     
  19. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Good suggestions. (Although I must say that I usually see Battleships before I even get there. It also depends what level/settings you're playing.)
     
  20. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    As I said, MOO2 difficulty, epic speed. I am able to get Titans before AI because they tech to Xeno relations.
     

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