Further growth without having to touch the slider...

[Caldazar]

Hiya Guys!

I'm currently playing a game as Alexander with a friend on monarch and I find it frustrating to claim the territory that
I want without increasing city maintenance too much. On the other hand, if I don't do this early on, those pesky
overambitious AIs are going to get their hands on them.

After considering my choices a solution came to mind. Would it be a viable strategy to build, let's say 3 more cities,
which would be funded by a merchant in each instead of further growth, after I have more or less gone below 60%
tech rate? I'm obviously running caste system to pull this off and it would only be under a short time. Any thoughts?

 

[Brave Jay]

Hiya Guys!

I'm currently playing a game as Alexander with a friend on monarch and I find it frustrating to claim the territory that
I want without increasing city maintenance too much. On the other hand, if I don't do this early on, those pesky
overambitious AIs are going to get their hands on them.

After considering my choices a solution came to mind. Would it be a viable strategy to build, let's say 3 more cities,
which would be funded by a merchant in each instead of further growth, after I have more or less gone below 60%
tech rate? I'm obviously running caste system to pull this off and it would only be under a short time. Any thoughts?

It will still slow down your tech rate a little bit because your pulling workers off of possible commerce tiles to make them merchants, not to mention the amount of extra farms you will have to work to feed them. If your going to run caste system, why not run scientists to keep your tech rate up and let the slider be damned until you build/whip the infrastructure to pay your maintenance fees?

 

[Caldazar]

Of course, you're right...

I was so blinded by slider and upkeep that I forgot that scientist are as good if not better in the early game (especially since you're more likely to have libraries rather than marketplaces)

Thanks for pointing it out

 

[futurehermit]

Check out my egypt/rome/persia thread for the general idea i would recommend. The idea can work with other leaders.

Basically, I would suggest prioritizing code of laws via math-currency as soon as all the other worker techs you NEED are done. Meanwhile you go hardcore war/expansion. Cottage up a bunch of captured cities and eventually, once you've claimed sufficient land and have a couple production cities up and running, cottage your initial cities. Currency allows you to chop/whip markets in your commerce cities which increases gold from cottages, but also allows you to run a couple merchants if desperate while staying in slavery. It also gives you +1 trade routes per city (huge over a number of cities) and allows you to build gold in your production cities when necessary to avoid striking. Code of laws allows you to chop/whip courthouses to cut maintenance costs.

My rule of thumb is rapid-expand via warfare until you start seeing enemy longbows (hopefully 1-2 civs are pushing daisies by this point). Then, if you have enough land, say 15ish cities, you can decide to play peacefully and go for space race, or you can tech through maces/trebs or wait til cavalry/grens, and then go to war again.

Either way, once your cottages mature over that many captured cities your tech pace will be unrivaled.

Alternatively, you can just farm everything and whip like crazy lots of army and go nuts conquering for awhile. Then, when you can't afford to war anymore or you see enemy longbows, settle down and run a pile of scientists and bulb your way to the renaissance era via liberalism. Then use renaissance era units to continue your campaign.

Either way, land is power

 

[Caldazar]

Most of the things you say I already know, but it's good to be reminded. I find myself for too often playing on autopilot

I think I've read your post before, but I'll have a look at it again. Although, in my game I was only blessed with copper, nothing else. From experience I find a rush with axemen expensive and slow, unless it's really early. Instead I've been given loads of floodplains, which is good for either CE or SE.

Cheers!

 

[DaveMcW]

Send a worker out with every settler and build cottages around the city. Each citizen working a cottage pays his own upkeep.

 

[futurehermit]

Dave, I often will cottage from the get-go and find that I have problems expanding via warfare. How do you generate sufficient production in the early game with all of your cottages? I don't ask as a critic but as someone who is more and more interested in building cottages (going for space race) but who can't seem to expand his early empire successfully when working a bunch of 0-hammer cottages.

 

[InFlux5]

I was using merchants in new cities to great effect on a recent archipelago map. I was also running Representation, which was nice, but sort of irrelevant to the point.

Running a merchant in a new city is a good short-term fix to have the city pay for itself. I found it preferable to running a scientist because the extra 3 beakers from the scientist barely budged my research bar; but the money from the merchant meant I didn't have to drop my science down by 10%.

Keep in mind some cities can't be cottaged. On this particular map I had to found several cities on 1- or 2-tile islands. Eventually I would need lighthouses there, but to keep my research at the desired level, the merchant was the best choice in the short-term.

 

[DaveMcW]

Bonus resources provide all the production you need in the early game. Settle with 2-3 in every city radius.

 

[futurehermit]

Bonus resources provide all the production you need in the early game. Settle with 2-3 in every city radius.

So, basically, you work bonus resources (horses, copper, stone/marble, etc.) in addition to food resources, and then cottage everything else?

 

[DaveMcW]

You're quoting me out of context.

In regards to this topic, cottaging is better than running merchants or not expanding at all.

 

[futurehermit]

How am I quoting you out of context Aren't we talking to each other in this thread?

I said:

Dave, I often will cottage from the get-go and find that I have problems expanding via warfare. How do you generate sufficient production in the early game with all of your cottages? I don't ask as a critic but as someone who is more and more interested in building cottages (going for space race) but who can't seem to expand his early empire successfully when working a bunch of 0-hammer cottages.

then you said:

Bonus resources provide all the production you need in the early game. Settle with 2-3 in every city radius.

then I said:

So, basically, you work bonus resources (horses, copper, stone/marble, etc.) in addition to food resources, and then cottage everything else?

what i'm trying to figure out is how you manage to expand (which requires production) while working cottages (which give no production).

thanks

 

[oyzar]

bonus resources is also food resources... whip whip whip

 

[futurehermit]

yep, i understand whpping, but Dave preaches adding happiness as much as possible and growing as many cottages as possible. i've also seen him say to minimize whipping in commerce cities. i genuinely am interested in how he goes about generating sufficient production early on.

 

[Arnesson]

Send a worker out with every settler and build cottages around the city. Each citizen working a cottage pays his own upkeep.

I have always tended to cottage green tiles and flood plains, but farm the 1-food plains tiles in order to avoid the green and red faces that inevitable arise (the exception being my GP farm, normally my capital, where I tend to build more farms than cottages, to feed those hungry specialists). That way I tend to have 2 food being generated per unit of population. From what I am reading on this thread, that strategy is not the most effective way to grow your empire at Monarch level.

Another paradig mfrom earlier levels that bears mentioning is that I tend to only build a few of my own cities, capturing the rest from Barbs and other Civ's. Later on, the only time I will generate a Settler will be to link cities together that are too far apart. Is this still a viable strategy in Monarch?

 

[futurehermit]

City specialization is key monarch+ Only build as many farms as you need to grow to the happiness cap and look to constantly increase your happiness cap. This applies mainly to commerce cities. Ideally you want to be running 20 cottages (this is a fantasy usually) in your commerce city. You want to minimize other improvements, including farms, as much as possible. More realistically, but still ideally, you want to be working 2 good food specials and 18 cottages in your cottage cities and you can either run specialists or cottage over your food specials once your city hits size 20+