Fury Road LS Mod Mod

ok lets see if this works

You will need to add the 'Fallout Mk1 file to your world builder saves file and run the game as a scenario, this is due to a conflict between the fury road map script and my custom settler for BOS/EN/SM, if you try to start a normal new game it will CTD. this should be fixed in the future with new terrain and a modified map script but that is all far in the future for me, but Mk1 is fine for playing and testing new stuff I think. Have a look around it see the Leader Bio's and let me know what ideas your thinking of for modding them.

Take care and merry christmas

Latest Download added to first post
 
Okay, I gave it a playthrough. First, congratulations on making a mod that doesn't break down and crash, even in this infant stage. Many mods, even more completed ones, do.

Okay, now before we begin talking about the mod, a few questions. I'm assuming the scenario is still using the original map from Fury Road, as it doesn't look much like the American Southwest and there are some weird locations for factions. (The NCR is in the far East, for example!) Correct? Also, who is Christopher Lehman? Another leftover? Shouldn't the Enclave be led by Dick Richardson?

Now some comments on the core scenario; you're probably aware of these issues, but still, just to make sure, I'll address them here. First, the Fallout scenario is far too short. I had it twenty turns away before I even became able to salvage any strong pre-war units. Second, hero units are too easy to come by. They shouldn't just randomly appear in piles of rubble; they should have a large requirement for getting them. I'm also not so sure that many survivors should come out of the rubble. Scrounging it for stuff via workers is more realistic. Survivors could come from villages (vaults), though.

Now, let's go to what you wanted me to talk about, factions and leaders. I think I'll list how I see each of the factions, with their strengths, weaknesses, and my explanations and ideas.

The New California Republic
Strengths: Egalitarian and Broad-based; focused on building a modern nation-state.
Weaknesses: Relying on whatever and whomever it can scrape together to run its nation-state, which isn't necessarily enough.
Explanations and Ideas: The NCR is probably the largest territory under one government in the Fallout world, so my idea is to give them a boost in producing settlers. However, since they are often dealing with people who have questionable morals and education, as well as the tattered remains of America's infrastructure, they might not have any more advantages than that, initially. Perhaps their early combat units could also be comparatively cheap but weak. As a future goal, though, the New California Republic could become more powerful eventually, via building up their country and improving their peoples' standard of living; my idea there is to give them free happiness points for certain buildings.

The Civilized Ghouls
Strengths: Hardy.
Weaknesses: Poor.
Explanations and Ideas: Given they are the result of being in areas where radiation was heavier, and actually surviving, they should have the mutant ability to enter areas infected by fallout, as you already had one of their units be. Since they can be healed by radiation, maybe a March promotion would be a good idea. However, other than positive mutation, there isn't much of an advantage to living in areas hit by radiation; let alone that mutation can have negative effectsm as well. Perhaps their cities could start with some unhealthiness points, which players would need to work to compenstate for.

The Brotherhood of Steel
Strengths: Good at obtaining and harnessing useful pre-war technology.
Weaknesses: Generally isolated from society; made up of small, tight-knit, elitist cells.
Explanations and Ideas: Being generally an amoral faction, obsessed with technology, and a secret society with little regard for outsiders, the Brotherhood should be well-armed, but small in number. A good idea would be to give them considerably more free techs than most other factions have, particularly those related to salvaging stuff from ruins. A production bonus, such as I made for my resourceful trait, might also be good. However, they should also be handicapped when it comes to building Settlers, and maybe even Workers (the rationale behind the latter is that they wouldn't be opting for a broad set of goals on the land they control; rather they'd be exploiting key objectives as much as they could), and those units that they build should be strong, but slow to produce and perhaps requiring more technologies/prerequisite buildings.

The Wasteland Tribes
Strengths: Well-versed in living off the land.
Weaknesses: I'm really not sure.
Explanations and Ideas: Again, I'm not sure about this one. Maybe a bonus to food production would be nice, but I don't know if they had enough definition in the game to figure out what their handicap should be.

The Master's Army
Strengths: Big and powerful.
Weaknesses: Badly outnumbered as a result of being sterile.
Explanations and Ideas: Given that they're super-mutants, they could have infantry units considerably tougher than those of other factions, on top of being immune to radiation. But with their inability to reproduce sexually, they would be difficult to produce. I'm not really sure how to translate them into game terms, though. Being unable to reproduce also seems to mean that their cities wouldn't grow under normal conditions, but I don't know how to stop that. Perhaps a better choice, though, is to assume that they're constantly harvesting humans for use in their experiments; hence their cities could grow but they would have free unhappiness and unhealthiness points in them. (Since that would be done through a trait, logically the trait should give them some advantage, as well. Maybe a bonus to research.) Also, whenever they train a supermutant, a city could stop growing during production. I am unsure of what this faction's approach to vehicles should be, though it seems that it should be different, somehow.

The Enclave
Strengths: Prepared in advance.
Weaknesses: Ineffective/Tyranical at actually governing a territory.
Explanations and Ideas: Perhaps a good idea would be to give them some strong units for free, right from the start--but perhaps not; it might be too much of an advantage. Another idea is giving them the actual ability to produce strong units, instead of just salvaging them from old bases. Their handicaps would presumably be similar to those I proposed for the Brotherhood.

The New Reno Families
Strengths: Cunning, resourceful.
Weaknesses: Infamous jerks.
Explanations and Ideas: This would possibly be another civilization that exploits its citizens, but to a considerably lesser degree than the Supermutants, and with more of an economic motive. Could get free unhappiness and unhealthiness points in their cities, but also free gold and culture.

The Raiders and Slavers:
Strengths: Lack of moral restraint.
Weaknesses: Lack of moral restraint.
Explanations and Ideas: These really seem like they should be barbarians, but if you wanted to make a civilization out of them, it could be similar to the above, only instead of trading happiness and health for gold and culture, they could trade them for production and maybe a little gold.
 
A great breakdown of your thoughts. I'll write a more comprehensive response later but it's ridiculously late right now.

yeah a lot of what you pointed out is all noted and work in progress it's all basically stuff from the fury road mod engine, that i haven't addressed yet, like i said the majority of work done is cosmetic so far.

Have you read my first few posts, they set out some of my own ideas for the various factions, and game ideas.

a lot of what you said echoes my own thinking on the civs so that is cool what i will do when I've had some sleep etc. is copy your formatting from the above post and give you my own take on the factions and then we can look to dove tail the whole thing together, but some great thoughts already.
 
congratulations on making a mod that doesn't break down and crash.
The credit for the stability of the mod is all on the shoulders of the Fury Road team, as the core game is still almost entirely Fury Road.

Okay, now before we begin talking about the mod, a few questions. I'm assuming the scenario is still using the original map from Fury Road, as it doesn't look much like the American Southwest and there are some weird locations for factions. (The NCR is in the far East, for example!) Correct?

Yeah basically the map was a pregenerated one for Fury Road, I just grabbed it and used it. It is actually the mid west great plains area I think. My goal was to redesign, moving the factions around a bit and adding new terrain features etc. after completeling the initial makeover of the factions. Think of this map as the nursery where the core game can grow and develop before getting it's own mapscripts etc.

Also, who is Christopher Lehman? Another leftover? Shouldn't the Enclave be led by Dick Richardson?

Yes Christopher Lehman was left over from the original Fury Road faction, i hadn't got around to researching the key enclave leaders in detail yet and also the idea of a low level civil servant becoming "next in line for the throne" and turning into a despotic psychopath really appealed to me and felt it would be great in terms of giving an air of hypocrisy to the Enclaves claims of being "the only legitimate government" as it is being run and led by an unelected official. Also as this is kind of set in the infancy of the fallout world, think fallout 1 and even prior to it, with all of the factions just beginning to emerge, the fallout 2 and three characters wouldn't apply to much. Having said that of course John Bishop of Reno is a fallout 2 character but he is very old in FO2 so shhhhh....Don't think about it too hard hehe.

Now some comments on the core scenario; you're probably aware of these issues, but still, just to make sure, I'll address them here. First, the Fallout scenario is far too short.

yes again this is a Fury Road game element, my eventual goal would be to make a much larger game, it could also be argued that fossil fuel isn't applicable to the fallout world as in the future it is nuclear and fuel cell and fusion and battery sources of power that are used and populate the world. My feeling on all this was as I was using Fury Road as a base i did not like the idea of just ripping out all of their efforts, one because it would be a lot of work and two it was a lot of work making it in the first place. So i felt that Fury Road represeents the Dawn of the Fallout scenario and eventually the resurgence of FO's "present day technologies" would render it all obsolete in the mid to late game. a WW2 era tank is nasty against spear weilding tribals and pistol weilding thugs but against a power armoured soldier with a plasma rifle it would be just as effective as a box of tissues. So adjustments will be made there.

Second, hero units are too easy to come by. They shouldn't just randomly appear in piles of rubble; they should have a large requirement for getting them.

Yes i think you are partly right about this, part of the random appearance idea i think was that these heroes simply emerge on the world stage from out of no where, think about the player character of the FO series as well as Mad Max. In terms of the game though i think you are right or perhaps they simply need to be modified, to be more like great people, or somewhere in between. Anyway something that can be discussed further down the road.

I'm also not so sure that many survivors should come out of the rubble. Scrounging it for stuff via workers is more realistic. Survivors could come from villages (vaults), though.

Again I think you are partly right, but do not think of the ruins as rubble think of them more as war torn, partially collapsed or disused structures, but to the lonely wanderers of the Waste they still provide sources of food and equipment, can goods, clothes etc, as well as relatively warm and secure structures to rest and live in. They are then discovered by one of the 'organised factions' and asked to join them, whether with an outstretched hand or the barrel of a loaded gun depends more on the faction in question hehe. Of course they also provide a wealth of resources for the scavenging factions too.

Now, let's go to what you wanted me to talk about, factions and leaders. I think I'll list how I see each of the factions, with their strengths, weaknesses, and my explanations and ideas.

A positively marvellous idea my dear fellow! (here is my take on the factions.)

The New California Republic
Strengths: Egalitarian and Broad-based; focused on building a modern nation-state.
Weaknesses: Relying on whatever and whomever it can scrape together to run its nation-state, which isn't necessarily enough.
Explanations and Ideas: The NCR is probably the largest territory under one government in the Fallout world, so my idea is to give them a boost in producing settlers. However, since they are often dealing with people who have questionable morals and education, as well as the tattered remains of America's infrastructure, they might not have any more advantages than that, initially. Perhaps their early combat units could also be comparatively cheap but weak. As a future goal, though, the New California Republic could become more powerful eventually, via building up their country and improving their peoples' standard of living; my idea there is to give them free happiness points for certain buildings.(Me) All excellent ideas and echoing my own thoughts, I view NCR as essentially the most advanced of the non-'Strong 3' factions, eventually developing into the most democratic and stable form of governance in the wastes, i need to think on the weaknesses of this faction but i do like the idea that you had, their expedience to unite the world for a better tomorrow would have some negative impact working with undesirables. I am also thinking of adding a building to the game which is essentially a refugee centre that allows you to 'build' refugees and boost your population in this way representing the use of resources to both find and process the wanderers and stragglers of the wastes into function members of a faction. For most factions this would come with an unhappiness modifier, but i felt the NCR would have a unique version that didn't have these negative effects (or perhaps it would looking at your idea for a weakness).

The Civilized Ghouls
Strengths: Hardy.
Weaknesses: Poor.
Explanations and Ideas: Given they are the result of being in areas where radiation was heavier, and actually surviving, they should have the mutant ability to enter areas infected by fallout, as you already had one of their units be. Since they can be healed by radiation, maybe a March promotion would be a good idea. However, other than positive mutation, there isn't much of an advantage to living in areas hit by radiation; let alone that mutation can have negative effects as well. Perhaps their cities could start with some unhealthiness points, which players would need to work to compensate for. (Me) again great ideas echoing my own i like the idea of them being poor and struggling, they are all spread out and not very popular, often shot on site being that many are feral and driven mad by the radiation effects. The ghouls in fallout 3 discovered that the radiation emitted by 'Glowing Ones' can actually help to fix them up when they come apart, also Fallout 2 has a band of Ghouls living next to a slightly leaky Nuclear power station, but the effect on the ghouls is actually quite pleasant somewhat like a day spa. I also thought that the idea of them growing radiation heavy mutated fast growing food stuffs in the middle of a 'Hot Zone' would be interesting, I would imagine that eating a meal that helps to restore the molecular bonds of your flesh would be quite a pleasurable delicacy, even if it is entirely deadly to any non-ghoul. the 'negative mutations' idea is also good, perhaps this could be a stage in their development as a faction that, like you said, would need to be overcome. Another element of the ghouls in fallout is that they seemed to have an aptitude for engineering and the sciences. this could be developed in there nature as a civ, generally they are physically weak, but brainy. they would also, in the right circumstances, be quite healthy due to the healing effects of radiation. if you can call having a face like a rotting omelette healthy.

The Brotherhood of Steel (Strong Faction 1)
Strengths: Good at obtaining and harnessing useful pre-war technology.
Weaknesses: Generally isolated from society; made up of small, tight-knit, elitist cells.
Explanations and Ideas: Being generally an amoral faction, obsessed with technology, and a secret society with little regard for outsiders, the Brotherhood should be well-armed, but small in number. A good idea would be to give them considerably more free techs than most other factions have, particularly those related to salvaging stuff from ruins. A production bonus, such as I made for my resourceful trait, might also be good. However, they should also be handicapped when it comes to building Settlers, and maybe even Workers (the rationale behind the latter is that they wouldn't be opting for a broad set of goals on the land they control; rather they'd be exploiting key objectives as much as they could), and those units that they build should be strong, but slow to produce and perhaps requiring more technologies/prerequisite buildings. (Me) Again excellent ideas, i do not know if you have read my strong faction ideas near the beginning of this thread but i will add it to the bottom of this post just in case.Part of there unique strength will be their abilitiy to gain the cooperation of the wasteland inhabitants leading to less negative effects for towns they conquer or annex. They essentially run a protection operation, in exchange for manpower and resources they provide legitimate security for those towns against the threats of the waste.

The Wasteland Tribes
Strengths: Well-versed in living off the land wide and fast spreading with bonuses against wild life and melee fighting.
Weaknesses: Technology is never available in large quantities.
Explanations and Ideas: (Me) My theory is this. All of the disparate tribes unite under a great leader to fight the war against the sky spirits minions (advanced cultures) they are able to spread (security) culture quicker as they do not fear the wastes as much as it is simply their home. As a decentralized faction (each village is self sufficient) they have a bonus to costs of distance to capital and number of cities. we could also make there starting building different (so village instead of town) which gives a different set of buildings for both them and the factions that conquer them. All of their units build faster, children are trained from birth in the way of the warrior, but all of their units will be generally weaker. The way I envisage this faction working is that they will grow and spread rapidly and build vast hordes of tribal warriors but they will need more units than other factions to effectively wage war and defend themselves. Also they will have a limit on their high end gun-weilding units as they have to scavenge, capture and trade for these advanced technologies. I also thought it would be good to give them an immobile/invisible/defensive only set of units for their villages in the form of traps. (think swinging logs and punji stick pit traps etc.) which would add an element of mystery and danger to them when other factions think about attacking them.

The Master's Army (Strong Faction 2)
Strengths: Big and powerful.
Weaknesses: Badly outnumbered as a result of being sterile.
Explanations and Ideas: Given that they're super-mutants, they could have infantry units considerably tougher than those of other factions, on top of being immune to radiation. But with their inability to reproduce sexually, they would be difficult to produce. I'm not really sure how to translate them into game terms, though. Being unable to reproduce also seems to mean that their cities wouldn't grow under normal conditions, but I don't know how to stop that. Perhaps a better choice, though, is to assume that they're constantly harvesting humans for use in their experiments; hence their cities could grow but they would have free unhappiness and unhealthiness points in them. (Since that would be done through a trait, logically the trait should give them some advantage, as well. Maybe a bonus to research.) Also, whenever they train a supermutant, a city could stop growing during production. I am unsure of what this faction's approach to vehicles should be, though it seems that it should be different, somehow. (Me) again great ideas i like the idea of freezing growth during unit production. I was thinking they would have a big advantage in melee fighting. Another approach I was thinking of as mentioned in the 'strong factions' section, to limit the number of units they can build normally, and maybe have some units that have to be promoted from refugees or other unit types. With this in mind they could have unique buildings such as FEV vats that boost gold production so that they have the funds to upgrade(dip) these basic human units. Also they would have access to certain twisted creations such as the multiheaded centaurs, somthing akin to a mutant guard dog.

The Enclave (Strong Faction 3)
Strengths: Prepared in advance.
Weaknesses: Ineffective/Tyranical at actually governing a territory.
Explanations and Ideas: Perhaps a good idea would be to give them some strong units for free, right from the start--but perhaps not; it might be too much of an advantage. Another idea is giving them the actual ability to produce strong units, instead of just salvaging them from old bases. Their handicaps would presumably be similar to those I proposed for the Brotherhood. (Me) your thinking is much the same as mine (great minds and all that) Enclave would be the most advanced faction, gaining access to high end equipment and things ahead of the other factions even the brotherhood, like highest quality power armour and vertibirds. They may also be able to produce centaurs (having access to the ealry FEV research note) as well as intelligent slave deathclaws and things. their big weakness is as you say their tyrannical policies, higher-ups and soldiers have it pretty good put everyone and everything else is just a tool and a means to an end. Unhappiness and unhealthiness follow in their wake. Also most of their economy would end up like a slave labour force with inherent issues there. lots of negative buildings and effects when using, towns and villages, needing to maintain strong military presences perhaps to stop upheaval and rebellion.

The New Reno Families
Strengths: Cunning, resourceful.
Weaknesses: Infamous jerks.
Explanations and Ideas: This would possibly be another civilization that exploits its citizens, but to a considerably lesser degree than the Supermutants, and with more of an economic motive. Could get free unhappiness and unhealthiness points in their cities, but also free gold and culture. (Me) again some great ideas i was thinking of things like buildings with both positives and negatives, e.g. brothel (Unhealthy but happy) Cage fighting ring (Unhealthy, expensive, but boosts happy and unit exp.) things of that nature. Also to have the unique 'Jet' corporation (perhaps among others) that can be spread to other civs, giving reno gold and causing other factions unhealthiness, unhappiness, and loss of productivity. this could be one of the staples of their strategy.

The Raiders and Slavers:
Strengths: Lack of moral restraint.
Weaknesses: Lack of moral restraint.
Explanations and Ideas: These really seem like they should be barbarians, but if you wanted to make a civilization out of them, it could be similar to the above, only instead of trading happiness and health for gold and culture, they could trade them for production and maybe a little gold. (Me) the reason I put them as a faction was one that Fury Road already had a similar faction and two in Fallout 3 they had a very organised raider town, with a fairly well developed slave trade and a weapons market as well as food and lodging. I think that they should have, perhaps exclusively, the ability to use slavery to rush production, I was thinking they could have unique weaker but quicker to build vehicles (think Mad Max Road Warrior stlye trucks and buggies) But I think they have to be a faction as this would be a prevalent form of government and control in a post-apolyptic world, those with guns using those without guns for their own ends and comfort. Big unhappiness, perhaps some sort of negative for distance to capital or issues with tech and production, lots of stealing and slavery as the basis of development. Smart guys do not have the same prominence among the thugs and bully culture.

The Herbologists:
Strengths: Ability to heal the land making it more fertile, access to animal units, some form of indoctrination, perhaps with a 'corporation' of religion, tthat allows them to get bonuses for themselves by spreading it among the other factions, perhaps gold and tech bonuses or something. Maybe also negatives for the indoctrinated enemy towns.
Weaknesses: lack of industrialisation and production, to reflect the eco-warrior heal the world mentality
Explanations and Ideas: Original born out of the fact the fury Road had a Cult style faction, the fallout element came from the huboligists of FO2 spreading something akin to todays 'Scientology' I thought this faction could be a blending of factions such as the Techno-Cults of the Reavers (FO Tactics) and Church of the Atom (FO3) as well as the beast controlling Cult Beast Masters (FO Tactics). The Eco-warrior vibe was something purely of my own creation as i thought it would make a fun and unique motivation for this faction. Healing the trees and soil through improvements making them more productive would be cool, as well as developing a number of sustainable green technologies, perhaps with benefits to health, happiness, science, but expensive and/or taking a lot of production.


The three Strong factions:
The three strong factions are BOS/Enclave/SuperMutants. They will each start in a Vault (or similarly advanced) location. They will be able to build buildings unique to these sites, hydroponic bays, teaching machines etc.and these provide big boosts. when it comes to settlers however they have a unique version, basically these factions cannot settle anywhere other than vault (or similar) locations making their growth a much slower more controlled affair, their early units will be strong but will not be able to conquer towns (like a helicopter) as they do not have the manpower or resources in the beginning to successfully annex/control/manage larger areas and populations. So there early mission will be focussed more on discovering and securing the precious vaults rather than picking fights that could see them overwhelmed by the faster growing factions. In the Rise of Mankind mod they have advanced settler units that found towns with certain buildings right from the start (such as a port and marketplace etc) i would like to use a similar technique (if possible) to achieve this. Anyone who builds on a vault terrain square automatically founds with a vault building which will act as a prerequisite for other vault based buildings, and normal towns will found with a 'village' or 'town' building which will act as a prerequisite for other town based buildings. This will give the added bonus of the later game goals of the strong factions being that they need to conquer and control towns in order to gain access to certain building types and units. Another element could be that they have a limit on the number of units they can build in their vaults and have to conquer towns in order to gain access to limtless unit types.
 
a WW2 era tank is nasty against spear weilding tribals and pistol weilding thugs but against a power armoured soldier with a plasma rifle it would be just as effective as a box of tissues. So adjustments will be made there.

I...think you're exagerating a tremendous amount there. True; a plasma rifle may be able to melt tank armor or heat an internal component of the tank until it explodes, but tank cannons, even of the WW2 era, are made to penetrate armor several inches thick, and power armor is, by limits of human body size, much thinner. Plus, I've played Fallout games and taken out Power Armor soldiers by shooting them with weapons far weaker than either tank cannons or plasma rifles, so I don't buy for a second that a tank would be that weak against power armor. I guarantee you a tank would be a great deal more effective than a box of tissues, that's for sure!

About your other ideas: Mostly good, but unfortunately I cannot give them all abilities you proposed without using Python, which I definitely do not understand worth beans yet. Also, I'm unsure of limiting Super Mutants to only founding cities in vaults, considering they can be formiddable enough to ward off attackers from almost anywhere they settle. Only allowing the Brotherhood to settle in forts and other key installations, like depots, is a good idea; only normal factions should be able to settle in forts, too. The way I see it, a number of location types in Fallout games have been turned into settlements, so the game should allow for the following:

*Ruins, obviously, given they're the leftovers of settlements already.

*Forts, since self-defense is extra-important in the Fallout world.

*Large things in the water, considering water provides a lot of protection. (Examples are Poseidon Oil Rig and Rivet City.)

*Vaults, since they're safe and well-furnished. However, the issue of where all the structures cropping up over a vault came from would need to be addressed. Perhaps they could be coded to use different graphics?
 
I...think you're exagerating a tremendous amount there. True; a plasma rifle may be able to melt tank armor or heat an internal component of the tank until it explodes, but tank cannons, even of the WW2 era, are made to penetrate armor several inches thick,

Well If we want to get really nitty gritty technical, the tank in question as seen in your avatar pic was the sherman tank, which was well known for having a gun that is woefully underpowered, unless we talk about the british modified firefly variant which had a british 88 artillery piece. Also tanks of that era were designed to penetrate steel plate armour, something the sherman was still not very good at, not the modern forms of composite armour, such as the british engineered cholum (or chobum) (can't remember off the top of my head) which is substantially better, who knows what other composite materials were developed in the years between now and fallout, also tank guns of that era did not have modern optics for targetting so hitting a guy in a power assisted suit would be tricky with a solid armour piercing round, not to mention issues with turret rotational speeds, and an indirect hit from a high explosive round may not have the cahones to do the trick. Also the power armour was designed as a replacement for tracked armour, creating the all in one infantry soldier of the future :) cooool. Now obviously there are certain weak points in the armor as with all things and a well placed or lucky shot could do the trick. All that being said it was just a joke so this lengthy explanation was just for fun hehe :p.

As to some of your other points:
I know all of the traits and abilities won't be straight forward Xml jobbies, I just put up everything so you could see where i wanted to go and also perhaps entice other skilled modders to take up the challenge. Here fishy fishy :p.
The normal civs will be able to found anywhere, although how all of this will work in game engine terms I'm not sure as there would need to be code for founding the vault building on vault terrain etc. I was also thinking that other civs would need to research the ability to open the vaults.
In terms of Supermutants I felt it would be good to keep them in the same vain as the other two powers as they are more of a conquest force rather than a colonising force so they force local populace out of an area to then take control of it, it is just a handicap to help balance their other obvious srengths just like with enclave and bos.

it also means that they will be more likely to fight a war 'between the 3' as they are all looking to control the same sites to increase their power, and the normal civs may be wary of occupying those sites as they could have all hell rained down upon them by one of the powerful civs looking to take back 'what is rightfully theirs'.
 
Time to update!

I have re-worked all of the factions to function in a way that more closely resembles the way they should, based upon Fallout games. About the only thing I haven't done yet is add unique units and buildings, although I could feasibly get started on those soon; even without the right graphics.

While we're at this point, though, I thought I should start talking about the direction we want to take the mod in from here, as it relates to some rather pivotal questions.

First thing that comes to my mind is that maybe we should start working on a map of the American Southwest. I don't think this will be as easy as XML was, but it's pretty necessary for what we're doing. At the very least, we need a scenario that isn't too short and has an actual victory condition. I've never made a full map for a mod before, so if anyone could help me with that, it would be appreciated.

Another thing that just hit me today, but is a big issue: One of the key mechanics of the original Fury Road mod is arguably inappropriate to Fallout. The fuel system is pretty neat, but in the Fallout universe, all oil has run dry, and cars are nuclear-powered. I'm not sure how much we want to head that issue for the mod.
 
hey Bahmo send me the updated files and I will add them, I am excited to see what decisions you made with the leaders etc.

I have re-worked all of the factions to function in a way that more closely resembles the way they should, based upon Fallout games. About the only thing I haven't done yet is add unique units and buildings, although I could feasibly get started on those soon; even without the right graphics.

don't worry about the UU UB stuff just yet, I have been working on that sort of thing myself, obviously I would love to hear any idea that you have on that front but what I really want to do is make the factions almost entirely unique to each other, obviously there will be crossover especially with the buildings, but my vision for this is to have every faction playing in a unique way with unique strengths and weaknesses for their units and civs like I have said before :)

we should start working on a map of the American Southwest

Right now the map that I am using is like I said just a nursery for the game and all the mechanics, balancing tests etc. :)

I have downloaded a map of the whole of America from a guy called ozzy i think... we could perhaps use this as a template. I was thinking that it would be cool to make a game that is not limited to the south west but encompasses the whole of america as this will draw in all 4 FO games. FO1-2 were in the west like you said, FO tactics follows the BoS expedition into the North Central area, Cheyenne Mountain etc. and FO3 is the eastern area, also with New Vegas it covers Nevada too so I think the scope of the game is good for covering the whole of America :)
What might be interesting is if most factions start out in the west and spread east that could be interesting, kind of like a reverse land rush of early America. My feeling on the victory condition is that total dominance would be the only end game. There is something programmed into fury road that I have not seen yet I need to talk to David to see what he actually has as programmed victory conditions and possibly disabling some of them. Actually creating a map i think is quite straight forward as it just uses the World Builder tool with the game primarily, it depends if you want to add things like specific events and special sites etc. that would require some study through the forums on our part but frankly I am not yet there in my thinking, I am still working on the initial 'identities' of the factions, then i want to look into expanding the tech tree to increase the longevity of the whole thing, it is just having the energy to get my head into doing mode hehe. Also there is Mapscripts to think about, these are the ones that generate random maps and appear to be quite complex python jobbies especially with the 'Founding on Vaults' mechanic I have added, there would need to be something that gives the 3 strong factions a vault tile to start with, or disable the initial founded city function and make something that places a vault nearby, or gives the 3 strong factions a set of units to begin with so that they can make a 'pilgrimage' to a vault site. This could be interesting as falling behind the other civs won't be such an issue as they will have tech and strength advantages anyway. Again though I am not there yet :)

One of the key mechanics of the original Fury Road mod is arguably inappropriate to Fallout. The fuel system is pretty neat, but in the Fallout universe, all oil has run dry, and cars are nuclear-powered.

My personal feeling is that it doesn't bother me so much, this is why:

The scope of this mod i think takes in a timeline that start in many ways before FO1 and can go on beyond FO3, for instance we start before shady sands is even the tiny town that we meet in FO1 and the BoS are still setting up there new home after their long march from the FEV Facility, I know the initial settlement for BoS is Cheyenne which is completely wrong but we can fix that if we just go and do a bit of research hehe. I just watch too much Star gate and love Cheyenne Mountain :p

But anyway the point about fuel for me is this. It has been many years since the Apocalypse that created the new world and there has been Biological death on an unprecedented scale so there could be the potential for New Oil Reserves. Also I think pre-Apocalypse oil sites would still have some oil left, just not a commercially viable amount. Think 10s or 100s of barrels of crude per day rather than 1000s and 1,000,000s. So dry i think is a relative term, there is not enough oil for even a small pre-apocalypse nation to really make use of, but for a small post-apocalypse world with strict controls on who and what actually uses it, it could be a viable amount. Fossil Fuel engines are far more nuts and bolts mechanics and could be grasped more easily than Fusion systems, I think examples of combustion engines would be found surviving in museums or even agri-culture equipment or 'prized treasures of a by gone era' and could be pressed back into service in the post-apocalypse world. Like I said before my plan is to essentially make this whole Fuel mechanic obsolete in the later part of the game by introducing the advanced technologies of the fusion systems etc. so after a certain discovery say, vehicles can be replaced with ones that start with a Fusion Cell Promotion for instance which is just a copy of the 'scrounge fuel' Promotion, which allows vehicles to run without needing a fuel truck. So I think it will make a fun mid game element that will then pass away, simple and easiest approach in my opinion :).

The new units I have so far added are a bunch of 'tribals' plus power armour and maybe a couple of others for BoS and enclave, I foolishly put up that update up and then found a great 'tribal' button set hehe. Doh so I need to update it again :p
 
Alright.

The idea of using an existing map of the entire United States is interesting, but it might (or might not) crowd out some of the factions because few of them started in major cities. I'm interested in seeing it, though, so we can determine what it would be like.

Also, was this map created with the mod? If not, how easy is it to convert it to the mod?
 
No the map wasn't made for Fury Road, I am not sure how maps work with each other, whether we can open the map in the mod and then re-paint the landscape to be fury road based I am not sure.

Try searching for North America maps in the forums and see what it turns up, it won't let me upload it to here for some reason.

upload your modded files too I am eager to see your changes and combine them :)

My mind is currently circling around the idea of remaking the Tech tree as I think this would feed into all the other parts of the game especially units and buildings and at what point they arrive in game etc.

I am currently just thinking about names for techs that will fit into the Fallout World and then thinking about how these might fit together one to the next and what things they might provide. So for example 'Teaching Machines' and it could provide the vault based building of the same name that provides a science boost.
 
I've attached the files I've edited. Just add them all to the right folders in your installation, overwriting whenever it asks, and it should all work.

By the way; the newest version of your mod doesn't seem to have a pre-made scenario playable, and when I try to start a normal play session, it freezes.
 

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Cool I will start combining what you've done :) What work have you done in the unit and building files, I have done some work in those recently so I just want to make sure I don't overwrite what I have done so if you could give me a quick summary of what you have added into those I can quickly find it copy it and add it to my existing files cheers :)
It looks good what you have done I really like most of the trait reworks I think they fit nicely :)
Am I right in thinking it is just the leader traits that have changed?

I was wondering if NCR need an extra positive, because the civic upkeep might be quite a big negative on them, I am not sure what exactly it could be, maybe something to do with trade to show their willingness to cooperate? It just seems to me that actually Tandi is one of the best and most successful leaders in the Fallout World having created one of the largest and most stable regions in Fallout and from essentially a dusty village it seems like a truly legendary feat! :)

I was also wondering about maybe adding a +gold per city for the tribes as a simple way of reducing the cost per city for them, so they can spread out new villages quickly.

I was also wondering about the raiders +hammers for trade, I am wondering if that will make them too passive, I feel like they need some sort of bonus for being more aggressive, not sure what that will be or how we could do it, maybe a military production bonus or something....not sure. It just feels like they need something to make them nastier and more violent.

Wow I did a lot of wondering there :p

By the way; the newest version of your mod doesn't seem to have a pre-made scenario playable, and when I try to start a normal play session, it freezes.

In the .rar folder there should be the Fallout Mk1 map in there you just need to put that into your worldbuilder save files like before and everything should be ready to roll :)

I experimented with trying to modify the NA map last night and it came up with some python exceptions about victory conditions, so I am not sure about the long term viability of that idea, I was able to get to the map and play around with it with the extra map elements that we have but I do not know what will happen in the long term with those victory conditions. I think more research is needed.
 
My edits to the building and unit xmls just give production/happiness bonuses to certain civilizations; there's no actual buildings or units added.

As to the error regarding victory conditions on that map of the US you have, if I had to guess, I'd say it's due to something pointing to the Space Race originally; a project that has been removed from your mod--but I don't know for sure.
 
My edits to the building and unit xmls just give production/happiness bonuses to certain civilizations; there's no actual buildings or units added.

So what physical changes have you made to these two files? I just need to be able to copy those elements across because I can't do a straight replace with those files once I have done that I can upload the new version and we should be on the same version then :)

With the map I think it is pointing to a fury road victory condition, it is 2 of them I think. I think there is a special victory condition written into the fury road code.
 
Sorry for my slow response.

The only changes I made in the Units XML are to the Settler and Worker unit, by adding several of the new traits I did as production traits, so it should be a fairly simple task of copying and pasting the work from my files to yours. The Building XML is the same deal; save that I edited more of them and also used Happiness traits. I can't list all of the structures I edited, but just searching the document for text of the traits I created (For example, "TRAIT_NCR" without the quotes) should get you all of the relevent structures.

Now about the Raiders and Slavers trade bonus: You're right, and there's a story behind that one. My original plan for the slavers was to give them a trait that subtracted happiness and health in exchange for increased production. The tags I used in the XML are, as far I can see, not used at all in the core game, so I have no idea why they're there, and assumed they were used to increase percentage of production in each city. Turns out they're not; they refer to trade routes, and they aren't percentage either; the original coding I wrote ended up giving them a totally unfair 10 hammers per trade route, so I quickly edited that out, but you bring up a good point that giving them trade advantages would persuade them to be too peaceful, so another idea needs to be found.

One new idea I came up with for them is to give them a unique version of the refugee unit, the slave, which couldn't be used to grow a city's population but could be sacrificed to hurry production (as Great Engineers are), and maybe also added to the city as a new type of specialist that grants constant production points in exchange for some negative affects. That feels evil enough, but it still isn't very militaristic. I'm open to suggestions on that one.
 
No worries :)

Ok cool I will go hunting for those traits and get them added soon and re-upload :)

I like the idea of the slaves, that would fit. There is a mod component in the forums for capturing slaves when you defeat an enemy unit, I have seen it working in the Dune Wars Mod we could perhaps explore that because that would make aggression work well for them. I think the current way is that it is a worker that upgrades one tile and is then destroyed but we may be able to add your ideas to that component, but we would obviously need to research how it is done and how it works. We could try asking David as he has worked on both Fury Road and Dune Wars so he may be in a good position to help us merge it. We'll see :)
 
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