Fury Road LS Mod Mod

Hey; sorry I've been terribly slow getting back to you. What would you like me to do from here?
 
no worries mate I haven't been well so I haven't really done much lately.

last big push i did was the adding in blank techs to beef up the tech tree a bit :-)

I am a bit stalled with it at the minute from being ill, we can have a crack at delevoping some more unit characteristic sets for the different factions. NCR, Ghouls, Supers well actually pretty much all of them need doing hehe, but any other ideas yaq have feel free to drop em down here.

Like I said i need another good surge of motivation to get a a bit of speed going on something hehe.
 
Okay; since you need a new surge of motivation, let's look at where we can go from here.

Since you proposed we use a map of the whole United States, I could add in New Vegas, Caesar's Legion, the Pitt and the Commonwealth as factions. One thing I think I want to do first, though, is change the factions to having accurate flags and leaderhead art (even if the latter would just be static images for now), so I can keep track of who everyone is. I can also overhaul the Raiders and Slavers pretty quickly.

Another thing I think we can do right now is focus on adding all of Deon's buildings into the game. Graphics actually exist, so why not focus on them instead of units? As to actually making units, we could ask Deon and Nitram if they do that, and even if they don't they might be able to help in other ways.
 
Okay cool here is my current thinking.

I am not so sure about adding new factions at this point for two reasons.

1) It might cause over crowding issues in terms of civs on the map, but that could be wrong and so not that big of a deal.
2) the main reason is that we will just be multiplying the amount of unfinished stuff that there is to do in terms of getting finished balanced civs. One of the main stamps of this mod that I have had from it's conception is that the various factions feel and play really differently. That each civ has a dynamic approach to the environment and the way it goes about subduing the wasteland. With multiple unique building and units, with some factions having an entirely different set of units and buildings, the the tribes for instance. So the more factions that go in the more ideas we have to have for making them unique. I haven't played new Vegas, but by the sounds of the faction names it seems like they would play out in a similar way to existing factions. I am not against adding new factions but I would like to get existing ones finished, even if such things as graphics aren't 100% finished for units and buildings etc. but just that all of the programming is in place and working so that art can just be slipped in. You Know?

One thought I had about New Vegas, is if we are designing a map scenario we could look to put in various locations like Vegas as say special barbarian towns that can be captured and have Special wonders and things in that would give a big benefit to the controlling civ something like that. We can do that with a number of places like Vault City (Med Techs) Capital Wasteland DC (water purifier, radio station) etc.

Getting deons building in sounds great, I know Fury road had a number of them added already. I wanted to download deons mod that he released because it looked like he had done a lot of great work and wanted to see it and maybe borrow it, but the mod file wouldn't download for me. I had tried to get in touch with some of the guys working on other fallout mods but without much success for collaboration.

Modding the flags would also be brilliant it is one of those jobs that I have wanted to do but my artistic ability is limited, it was one the first modding things that I learnt to do and have wanted to change them for ages, it was just a case of to what?

I really like the 3d leaderheads and have not wanted to take that step back to just pics. I have sent out a few requests to people to make some more accurate leaderheads but with limited success some guys said they would be happy to have a go but haven't heard back. Most of the leaderheads I think are pretty good representations, all of them need changing some, (Tandi's Clothes for instance) I sent out a request for a ghoul and mutant too. I like the effects that had been applied to the goblin and orc by C.Roland (which is what is there now) but I would really like it added to another base, my thoughts were ghandi for the ghoul (skinny, glasses, and a tatty old short sleeve shirt and tie is my dream) and some one like church hill for the mutant (Bald, blotchy, big squarish head). The other Job is changing some of the icon images to the new leaderhead versions as some are left over from the old leaderheads as i couldn't think how to make them. My best idea is a print screen from civilopedia or diplo screen then crop it and shrink it and convert it to dds format. Also some of the background images need resizing to get rid of the red.

The other thing I wanted to do was split the leader and civ text and have a different one for each. The civ text focussing more on how each civ works and the the leaderhead being much like they are now with the story of the leader and faction. Just need my creative brain working at a decent speed hehe.

Another thing I have wanted to do for ages is to develop some basic templates for civ designing. e.g. with a break down of units, buildings, abilities and how they all connect to one another and the techs etc. I just need to figure out a good way to do it. I did for the tech tree when I was having a go at experimenting with expanding it.

View attachment tech tree.rar Like this using openoffice impress (Powerpoint)

That way we can each have a copy of a template for each civ and fill in new ideas for all the various bits and pieces that go into a civ and periodically exchange them to both stay up to date.

In terms of unit art I have actually found quite a lot of cool stuff that would fit quite well, by scouring the databases on site and looking through various mods for stuff (I just found some good stuff in Dune wars that would work for bos, enclave and ncr probably) the hardest ones at the minute and ghoul and mutant I think. Could probably find plenty of melee ones like the ghoul survivor I added but having ones with guns is harder because no one has made anything like that (and most stuff that would fit is fantasy/melee based) With the units it is just trying to think of various original ideas that would make them play and operate differently. If you look at some of the units I added you can see the sorts of directions I am thinking of. This is why I want to make that designer template as it would help to be able to see an overview of each faction and how it will work as a whole in game. If you get my thinking?

I've got loads of ideas swimming around in my head it is just a case of coming up with a way I can lay out all the fragments so that they make some kind of sense to somebody else who is looking at them. Your break down of the civs was great for that, just need to take it to the next level of detail with everything that is involved in a civ from unit stats to research connections to building connections as well as unique qualities. I am also wondering about trying to create new unit types so that we can great more combat flexibility and interaction. Like Super mutants and power armour units then other units that can be specifically strong or weak against these iconic fallout elements.

So summary.
Buildings (great!)
Flags (Sweet!)
Leaderheads (I like the 3ds :-( :-P but small images need fixing)
Factions (More work less progress?)
Units (good art out there just need good unit ideas to go with them also unit requests tend to get better response when designers see a working mod that looks enjoyable and they want to get their art skills in to make it even better :-))
Think about Civ Design template, also what kind of office software do you have for compatibility reasons :-)

As always it's great to hear your ideas as they really help to get my own brain going again and wanting to push things forward :-)
 
I'm giving the Brotherhood of Steel a go, and am trying to found a new city but it won't let me. I saw a reference somewhere to only being able to found on particular resources or something but don't have a can't find any that'll let me. Has this not been implemented or am i not looking hard enough?
 
aaah yeah mate sorry the terrain has been added it is just not on the map yet the game is still just a testing platform at the minute, so it isn't really properly playable.

I had been experimenting with making the vaults a resource rather than a feature so I could then get TECH TO REVEAL IT BUT FOR SOME REASON IT DOESN'T REVEAL WITH THE TECH SO i AM STARING A T IT CONFUSEDLY HEHE whoops caps hehe
 
No worries! I was watching Mad Max and wanted some post-apocalyptic fun. It is looking pretty cool so far and I'm always willing to try out new mods ... or old mods that have new releases.
 
Hmmmm. Well I tried my hand at designing an america map but sadly without much success. problems like some teams not starting and others starting in multiple. I wish I could just access the map and modify and add the teams but I can't seem to do it any other way than loading a game and accessing world builder from there...

I find myself frustrated with this task...
Oh also I had to abandon the 'revealing' of vaults as I couldn't get it to work so it shall have to remain as a feature..

I think my next job will be taking some time out to devise some buildings and maybe units and figure out with what tech things will go with....
 
OK here is a first attempt at a civ design template. It is a spreadsheet. Try having a look at it to see what I have done it contains a list of all the techs. So if you want to have a crack at designing all the buildings and units for a civ that would be cool.
 

Attachments

Some Ideas Before Bed:

Trade Caravans: bring traders into the game in a big way like mini great merchants. make them quick and easy to build but they need escorts to be protected and survive. Make them crucial to the economic viability of the civs especially early on. You need to operate regular caravans because your nation will be running in a constant negative cash flow, so it has to be regularly topped up by caravan revenue. With the advent of corporations this can be changed so that corporations provide enough gold to bring you into the positive, representing privatised trade routes and guard operations.

Supermarkets/iguana's/ and other resources: I was thinking about adding a supermarket building to some ruins that greatly increases it's food production. in the same way as depots, munitions etc. obviously iguana's need to be added as well, with buildings that match with them. Something like skin trader for gold and food vendor for a food boost. we could do this with a number of resources.

Melee/ranged: I have been pondering a way to try and make melee units remain beneficial after ranged weapons come into play. I am thinking about Supersledge and powerfist fighters etc. I was thinking one way might be making melee units stronger but ranged units get first strikes. I am not sure how these really work though so don't know what the right balance would be. Alternatively melee could have a benefit for city attack or something like that, like the swordsman in normal games.

I've got loads of ideas I am just finding it hard to focus on something and develop it to implementation in the game, I have done a little fiddling with buildings, added a couple of new ones and moved some of them to be available with different techs. I also need to sit down and fix the values for the various technologies..

Let me know what you are working on just incase I need to upload the latest version for you to add to. hopefully with the things you said you would do it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
 
Hey, been watching this for a while and I'm interested where this will lead.

Anyway, you weren't sure how first strikes work, here is a short explanation of combat.

Each unit has 100 hitpoints. Combat is done in rounds.
The damage you deal per round is equal to the strength of your unit modified by promotions and abilitie ( of you and your opponent). So a 4 strength unit with +50% strength will do 6 damage per round.
You and your opponent try hitting each other each combatround. Attacks can miss, though I'm not sure exactly how high the chance to hit/miss is.

First strikes are what they sound like. For each first strike you get one combatround to damage your enemy at the start of combat without him retaliating. Obviously first strikes still can miss.
First strikes chances are a. i think. 50% chance to get a firs strike combat round.
If both you and your opponent have first strikes, they cancel each other out.


So, yeah in the context of melee vs ranged, pure strength vs first strikes does make sense, since ranged weapons can hit earlier, but are not necessary stronger than some melee weapons in the Fallout universe.


Anyway, keep up your work and don't give up.
 
Yeah I figured it worked something like that, just wondering what a good balance would be and how much 'power' first strikes translate to so how many they should have and how weak they should be, I guess part of it will be trial and error.

hmmm is your strength multiplied by your hitpoints or something I am just trying work out how it effects, obviously when you are damaged it reduces your strength
by your percentage of damage....a stronger unit takes out a weaker one with fewer successful hits I guess the animations responds to successful hits....can only one side get a successful hit in each round..so either you or your enemy do damage each round but not both....hmmm. is a more powerful unit also more accurate in terms of succesful hits. If you are stronger you great a greater percentage chance to hit per turn?.....hmmm

I keep hitting brick walls with things so it slows progress, I am ill so motivation and ease are big factors for progress and every time I hit a wall like with these stupid map problems hehe I want to take a break :-P

It is good to know there is interest out there it helps me to push on and try to work things out :-)
I just seem to hit more walls than highways :-P

Anyway feel free to drop any ideas for anything, units, building, techs etc. even little ideas if I use them or not often help to spark off good directions for me :-)

now if i could just whip this map into compliance.......

ARGH!.....

I managed to create a map with just the right number of civs but now when I try to modify it it will not save my changes..... Well it does but not if I remove something.....

Example: deleted NCR Capitol moved it south saved it. loaded new game NCR capitol is where I left it but a second town has been placed on the site of the old capitol so NCR now has two towns! WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm maybe I have to load a new map and make all of my placement changes first time round and see if that makes the difference.....

nope....this is so annoying! OK too tired giving up for tonight bed time...

Success! Hooray!
I finally have it that I have the right number of civs and they are starting where I want! It was something to do with saving and loading the map, I think the final solution was I had to make the change, exit world builder, enter world builder, save it, then reload. After that is when it seemed to register the change.....I think....?....Anyway

HOORAY! Now I just need to mess around with the rest of the map adding in all of the right terrain and features, resources etc....ugh....hehe

Ok most city ruins and highways added, just resources now....I wish I could get my hands on deons mod....
 
Ok I have begun to implement Vault And Village Specific Buildings. Now Vault Cities cannot build most of a normal town buildings, but has and will have in increasing amounts Buildings that can only be built in a Vault and that are generally better than what a town can have.

So far Vault has:
Hydroponic Farm
Armoury
Archives
Cinema
Maintenance Facility

Suggestions are welcome. Bahmo let me know if you want me to upload the latest version so you can see how to implement vault and village stuff if you want to be adding in what is left of Deon's buildings


AAAAH I lost almost all of my building work when my hard drive went poof!! Excuse me while I cry in the corner! Along With all of my planning files......
 
Interesting project, I still have fond memories of playing Fallout 2 back in college.

As far as first strikes vs. combat percent, I can explain a few things. Shoggi was on the right track with the way combat works. A unit at full strength has 100hp, and the combat occurs in rounds.

Assuming there are no first strikes involved, someone always wins a round. The damage dealt by attacker and defender is computed at the beginning before the rounds start and is based on the ratio of the 'CurrCombatStr' of each unit. This is 'BaseCombatStr', taken straight from XML, times the percent of health left, times any combat modifiers. So a 10 base:strength: unit at half health with combat 3 has (10 * 50% * 130%) = 6.5:strength:.

The damage calculation uses a ratio based on the two units Current Combat Strengths that is slightly more complicated than I need to go into. If the two are equal in strength, the damage for both is 20/round.

The other important number is the DefenderOdds, which is the odds of the defender winning each round. The AttackerOdds are just the inverse of DefenderOdds (e.i. 1 - DefenderOdds). This number comes from the formula
Code: 
(iDefenderStrength) / (iAttackerStrength + iDefenderStrength)

So if they are both 10:strength:, its (10/ (10+10)) = 50%.
A badly skewed battle, lets say 20:strength:vs5:strength: is (40 / (40+5)) = 80%

for that same 20vs5 situation, the damage is 36 vs 10.

So, on any given round, the defender has 80% of doing 36 damage, while the attacker has 20% of doing 10 damage. Since both damage and the odds of inflicting damage go down/up at the same time, this is why badly damaged units (therefore very low 'CurrCombatStr') have so little chance of inflicting much of any damage to an opponent.

Now here's where first strikes come in. If our 5:strength: unit had 5 first strikes, as long as he has first strikes, he can inflict damage if he wins a round. If he loses the round, the first strike gives him a pass on receiving damage. Since he's horribly outclassed in both 'AttackerOdds' and 'iAttackerDamage', it won't do him much good. He has (.2^5 = .032%) odds of winning all five rounds he has first strikes on, which if he won all five, only did 50 damage. So he's still dead :lol:

Switching it around, the 20:strength: unit with 5 first strikes only needs to win three rounds to kill the 5:strength: unit. His odds of winning at least three of his five free rounds is 94.2%.

The take home point here is that first strikes are only really useful if you are stronger than or at least on par with the opposing unit to begin with. The more powerful you are in comparison, the more powerful they become. If the choice is between a combat and drill promotion, the combat will always be the stronger choice, but a unit with City Garrison 1,2,and 3, therefore with a very high Current Combat Str while in a city, could benefit well from further drill promotions to compliment it. They are just worthless by themselves :).

I'll also add that 'chanceFirstStrikes' are figured before a battle picking a random number in the range of total possible chance first strikes. If you have 3 chance first strikes, you have a 25% of having 0,1,2,or 3. Since first strikes are already weaker than combat percent, I don't understand why Firaxis decided to weaken them more by making chance first strikes.

Finally, just as a note, if you increase the number of first strikes/chance first strikes given by drill/other promotions by anything significant to balance them you'll need to change the AI valuation for first strikes or else every AI unit will pick promos with them over anything else. I can help with that if you wanted to go that route.
 
Ok now my head hurts hehehe

Yeah I always thought first strikes didn't seem to work so well anyone that had them always seemed to end up dead :-)

So still need to think carefully about ranged/melee combat....hmm maybe the city attack strength or something similar is the way to go with it....

The thinking continues. Thanks for your input :-)

Also your avatar pick is great hehe
 
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