starlifter
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2001
- Messages
- 4,210
Good to see you again! 
Wow, you're at KTH (from the other thread you wrote)!? That's one of the most prestigious schools in Sweden, for those who don't know: The Royal Institute of Technology. Are you at KTH main campus or Kista? I've visited both, and have friends that graduated from the engineering department (Civil, a few years ago) and computer science department. KTH is known and well-respected for its undergraduate programmers' ability to compete in international programming contests, and finish at or near the top. Will you continue & do a Masters (which in the Sweden university system is a sort of smooth continuation from 'bachelors' study)?
In 'theory' for comparison games in Civ 2, they should be; I've now done some catch-up reading, and evidently some very good players like Solo articulate that for similar reasons (e.g., not popping a hut).
However, the GOTM is really just a vehicle to have fun playing Civ 2, and talking about it, and huts are part of Civ 2. Since the GOTM is not a hardline comparison game (e.g., submit a full game log and more saves), and is (in my view) a means of encourageing newer players, generating new ideas, and learning new playstyles... well, I think its good to have occasional hutless games, or maybe modified hut games as you, Slow Thinker, and Peaster have suggested in various ways.
You learn a lot when forced to confront new ideas outside your normal paradigm. My play changed a lot after playing GOTMs in 2001. For instance, I never used to value Hanging Gardens much. Or consider rapid early expansion (going instead for the "long" view of how the civ should look in 5,000 years when city planning, for example). And certain players like Shadowdale & the 'strategy' he employed were a catalyst for developing ways that were actually repeatable, describeable, and playable by average players in a real game. And the constant evolving of even the GOTM rules required even further refinement (e.g., no rehoming of trade that is "new" to me in GOTM 68, since I have not played since #18).
So although I guess in a way I'd tend to favor all Diety+, no huts, game saves every 5 turns, etc... well, then it would be an 'elite' GOTM in the sense it would by its very constraints exclude (or scare away) most of the vast majority of potential Civ 2 GOTM players. So hopefully every once in a while, a GOTM can be hutless, be very rectangular, government limited, revealed map (& maybe even just state the starting coordinates of the AI units to save time clicking/irrigation hunting)... whatever variation.
Samson & Solo are probably the 2 best thinkers in Civ 2. About Samson's hut outcomes, I must caution that after reading the link & what he wrote, it is a fine effort, but not correct in details. I do not have the time to properly think it all out & quantify it in print right now, but we can probably use his excellent effort as a starting point in a Hut thread for that purpose. I suspect his results are correct, given his test environment/setup, but that there are more triggers that did not become apparant due to his methodology (e.g., setup & observations & limitations). You can reproduce -- and I have reproduced -- hut cities on almost all terrain types, for instance (using Civ 2 MGE; I have not tried it in 2.42, which he uses). And on and on. But his work does give someone with no clue about huts, an overall feel for how it works. And maybe even the complete mechanism for 2.42, I don't know... but its not complete for 5.4.0f. Regarding timings of events, it "feels" pretty accurate for 5.4.0f, though. 
So a warm welcome back, Chofritz! We expect to see you in some GOTMs and doing some posting as your classes allow.
Wow, you're at KTH (from the other thread you wrote)!? That's one of the most prestigious schools in Sweden, for those who don't know: The Royal Institute of Technology. Are you at KTH main campus or Kista? I've visited both, and have friends that graduated from the engineering department (Civil, a few years ago) and computer science department. KTH is known and well-respected for its undergraduate programmers' ability to compete in international programming contests, and finish at or near the top. Will you continue & do a Masters (which in the Sweden university system is a sort of smooth continuation from 'bachelors' study)?
Yes, I know what you are getting at with the 2 examples you cite... its the propogation, in a properly managed empire.
In 'theory' for comparison games in Civ 2, they should be; I've now done some catch-up reading, and evidently some very good players like Solo articulate that for similar reasons (e.g., not popping a hut).
However, the GOTM is really just a vehicle to have fun playing Civ 2, and talking about it, and huts are part of Civ 2. Since the GOTM is not a hardline comparison game (e.g., submit a full game log and more saves), and is (in my view) a means of encourageing newer players, generating new ideas, and learning new playstyles... well, I think its good to have occasional hutless games, or maybe modified hut games as you, Slow Thinker, and Peaster have suggested in various ways.
You learn a lot when forced to confront new ideas outside your normal paradigm. My play changed a lot after playing GOTMs in 2001. For instance, I never used to value Hanging Gardens much. Or consider rapid early expansion (going instead for the "long" view of how the civ should look in 5,000 years when city planning, for example). And certain players like Shadowdale & the 'strategy' he employed were a catalyst for developing ways that were actually repeatable, describeable, and playable by average players in a real game. And the constant evolving of even the GOTM rules required even further refinement (e.g., no rehoming of trade that is "new" to me in GOTM 68, since I have not played since #18).
So although I guess in a way I'd tend to favor all Diety+, no huts, game saves every 5 turns, etc... well, then it would be an 'elite' GOTM in the sense it would by its very constraints exclude (or scare away) most of the vast majority of potential Civ 2 GOTM players. So hopefully every once in a while, a GOTM can be hutless, be very rectangular, government limited, revealed map (& maybe even just state the starting coordinates of the AI units to save time clicking/irrigation hunting)... whatever variation.
Samson & Solo are probably the 2 best thinkers in Civ 2. About Samson's hut outcomes, I must caution that after reading the link & what he wrote, it is a fine effort, but not correct in details. I do not have the time to properly think it all out & quantify it in print right now, but we can probably use his excellent effort as a starting point in a Hut thread for that purpose. I suspect his results are correct, given his test environment/setup, but that there are more triggers that did not become apparant due to his methodology (e.g., setup & observations & limitations). You can reproduce -- and I have reproduced -- hut cities on almost all terrain types, for instance (using Civ 2 MGE; I have not tried it in 2.42, which he uses). And on and on. But his work does give someone with no clue about huts, an overall feel for how it works. And maybe even the complete mechanism for 2.42, I don't know... but its not complete for 5.4.0f. Regarding timings of events, it "feels" pretty accurate for 5.4.0f, though.
So a warm welcome back, Chofritz! We expect to see you in some GOTMs and doing some posting as your classes allow.
).
