G-III Pi

Tone

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Congratulations go to RFHolloway for a clear victory in Omicron. We increase both the difficulty level and map size for this month as we vow to be kind to our neighbours (or at least the ones that we let survive into Modern Times ;) )

  • Mapsize: Large
  • Difficulty: Demigod
  • Condition: Diplomatic

Have your submissions in by August 14th, and good luck.
 

Aigburth

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I like diplo games so think I'll try this one. Sumeria for me I think (or maybe one of the sci/comm civs :hmm:), not eneogh to be gained from goody huts at this level to go with Russia.

Trade for alpha then slingshot, not sure whether to start off researching something or save gold, if I leave out babs what chance of getting cb or myst first and trying for an SGL?
 

Tone

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I like diplo games so think I'll try this one.
I thought that this one would gain your interest! :)


I was thinking about Sumeria as well, although I've played a large number of games with the Ottomans recently and I'm hooked so maybe I'll start with them. Babs will not be in my starting line-up either but I may well pad out the civ count with a few comercial civs to ensure the cash flow is good and that trading for Alphabet is easy.
 

Bartleby

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My first thought was to go as Korea/Greece vs no-alpha scientific opponents but I'm not sure I can guarantee the full slingshot.
 

RFHolloway

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It came off for me first time in my DG 100k, (sumeria vs 2 non alpha) 6 opponents may be a different story. Since some of them may be expansionist I would expect early contacts - unless you went 'pelago. This is too far outside my comfort zone to give a realistic try though so take my ideas with a pinch of salt.
 

Bartleby

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I've been playing a lot of games (or starts to be more precise) on Deity Large Pangaea maps over the last couple of weeks. Admittedly, I was researching Alphabet for myself, but what I found was that I was usually first to Alphabet, but not Writing, and sometimes I missed Philosophy (almost invariably to the Aztecs).
So my feeling is that if I start with Alpha I have a good chance, but no guarantee. Does anyone know offhand if any of the Scientific civs tend to beeline Philo? I know Theodora does but she's not going to be in my games.
 

Marsden

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I thought that this one would gain your interest! :)

I was thinking about Sumeria as well, although I've played a large number of games with the Ottomans recently and I'm hooked so maybe I'll start with them. Babs will not be in my starting line-up either but I may well pad out the civ count with a few comercial civs to ensure the cash flow is good and that trading for Alphabet is easy.

If I get in on this I'm going to use my old stand-by Byzantines. Start with alpha, good for early contacts, and the only civ I feel safe on almost any level on my home island. Those Dromons will interdict any enemy naval operations until early the industrial.

I don't like the Babs either, they are too agressive (not always a bad thing) and they always seem to do really well even though their traits and UU don't suggest that they would be.


I've been playing a lot of games (or starts to be more precise) on Deity Large Pangaea maps over the last couple of weeks. Admittedly, I was researching Alphabet for myself, but what I found was that I was usually first to Alphabet, but not Writing, and sometimes I missed Philosophy (almost invariably to the Aztecs).
So my feeling is that if I start with Alpha I have a good chance, but no guarantee. Does anyone know offhand if any of the Scientific civs tend to beeline Philo? I know Theodora does but she's not going to be in my games.


I found Germany to go for Philosophy a lot.
 

AutomatedTeller

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Germany will, if they get Alpha.

Not always, but enough of the time.

Dont' dismiss russia in a game like this, btw. You won't get so many techs... but you run a good chance at popping a settler or a town or two, and those are maybe more important. Plus the contacts are awesome.

I believe a civ that starts with alpha will get the slingshot as long as you get a decent start.
 

AutomatedTeller

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I tried starting one game as, believe it or not, Portugal, on an arch map, under the assumption that it would be safe, start with alpha, get free settlers and extra commerce from coastal would be good.

It was a good start, as far as it went...

but 80 shield for a lib really slows down the building.

Then Korea declared out of the blue and it was taking a long time to get through the middle ages, so I stopped...
 

AutomatedTeller

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I got a game going for the gauntlet, which should be ok. It's 170 AD, I'm on ToG, needing mettalurgy and Magnetism. I'm hoping that the AI is going for those two, so I can get into the IA pretty soon. I'm banking on Newton's catching me a GA (hopefully there won't be a cascade) to get me through the early IA.

I figure the AI will get me the starting techs, Rep Parts and I hope combustion and maybe flight or motorized.
 

Tone

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Sounds good, AT. My guess is that you'll get Metalurgy from them but they'll only get Magnetism when you're one turn from getting it yourself. :D Is this with Portugal again or have you gone with a more conventional choice this time?

I'm hoping to get going on this soon. I set mapfinder going yesterday with the Ottomans so I have some saves to play with. RL is getting in the way though but I'll have a few weeks off work coming up so once I've found a new place to live I should be able to have a decent run at this.
 

AutomatedTeller

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My first effort: 840 AD. It's actually better than expected - I only got 4 turn research for magnetism and motorized transport - my expansion wasn't that great. I got 3 SGL's - interestingly, 1 well timed for Copes, 1 for newton's and 1 in the middle of the IA, which I used for UN. I'm not sure that's a good idea, mind you - with a prebuild, you can get it a turn earlier.

The AI got me invention, gunpowder, banking and mettalurgy in the MA, but just rep parts and mass production in the IA - and mass prod with just a turn left for me. I think a better research path may be in store, but it's tough - the AI spends so much time on communism and fascism.

I'm also wondering if it makes sense to go for sanitation... but I suspect not - it's just better to go to war earlier and take more cities from the AI ;)

OK, so, more detail:

60% pangea, wet, warm, 5B years. All scientific opponents except Byzantines.

Start was ok - river and a cow, a bunch of nearby FP, one with wheat, and another reasonably close cow, incense to my northeast.

Had huts on and popped two towns (one near the incense), found greece fast and traded for Alphabet and went for the slingshot. There was no problem getting it, which was encouraging.

Got republic at 1375 BC, caught 6 turns of chaos. Hit the MA at 1000 BC by trading for construction (I ended up trading for both currency and construction after researching part of them) got all the first level techs in interturn, but because I traded for construction, I couldn't get a 2nd level one.

QS stats: 13 cities, 30 citizens, 13 workers, 3 scouts, 5 warrios, 2 archers, 2 spears, 1 granary, 1 barrachs, 1 lib.

Set up Yekaterinaberg in a great site - on a gold hill on a river, with 2 more gold hills and a gold mountain in the radius. That became my FP site, with Copes, Newtons, courthouse, police station and shakespeares... towards the end, was producing 12% of my research.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/81969/yekaterinaberg.JPG

Research in the MA was slow - kicked off the GA with Copes and Newtons to give me 4 turn research on Magnetism. Got SGL's for both the science wonders. Hit the IA around 290 AD or so.

Got nationalism, Steam and medicine in the interturn and got electricity as the free tech :)

Gave away electricity so the AI would research rep parts.

Went industrialism, corporation, scientific method, then up the corporation ladder. Took Atomic Theory and Electronics for free. Research was 6-8 turns throughout.

At some point, the AI got mil tradition and I created a dogpile on germany. Germany held out for a long time, but couldn't handle all the AI's and died around 750 AD. Weariness was a problem, so I ended up building a bunch of temples and caths in my core, plus Universal Suffrage.

I managed to get flight in 6 and mass production in 4 (because the AI finished it a turn before I was gonna and I traded for it :)), and motorized transport in 4 (the only tech I managed to get in 4 turns outside of magnetism) At some point, I picked up and SGL.

In the interturn, traded for Fission and rushed the UN that turn. The AI got me sanitation then, too :lol Signed ROP and MPP with everyone and won the vote (even though I accidentally abstained!), only Xerxes didn't vote for me (he was my opposition)

In retrospect, I should have built more granaries early and had some limited early wars to gain cities- Greece had a bunch near my core. That's always a problem for me, though, since the AI's nearest you are the ones you are usually trading with for luxuries! or at least, trading through...
 

AutomatedTeller

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btw - for anyone worried about playing this because the AI is so tough and agressive - I basically just expanded. I had 1 town get a barracks and make archers and I traded a lot and no one bothered me. No one attacked me all game and I had no wars until I decided I needed Germany's land. With all the trading I did, I don't even get many demands.

It was actually a much easier game than I expected it to be.
 

Tone

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7 days left and I haven't even started.:( I've got the taste for Agri civs again so maybe I need to play as the Sumerians. I'll set up mapfinder tonight maybe.
 

Bartleby

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Just a bit more of a comment on my game.
I got an SGL for Writing and decided to risk trading alpha for Masonry (I met the Ottomans) and built the Pyramids. The Slingshot was still OK.

I suffered from slow contacts; in 1000 BC I had only met three civs so I was reluctant to trade away Philo and Lit (but I gave Lit to the Babs when they demanded it, in 550 BC). I met the last civ just as I reached the middle ages. Nobody got Monotheism, but I got Invention. My research didn't pick up a lot of pace because I had a lot of jungle to clear, I was playing catch-up mostly.

I was fourth into the Industrial age, I managed to leverage Steam and Medicine, but unfortunately Nationalism was my free tech. I triggered my GA at shortly afterwards, in 570 AD (Hwacha attack on a roaming Bab spearman) and managed to do some four/five turn research. I got RP and Refining from the AI. Combustion went from five turns to four when the Ottomans beat me to it. Flight was five turns, but I couldn't have made my prebuild faster anyway.

Everybody voted for me; I wasn't sure if the Babs would but they were still at war with Cathy, who was my opponent.
 

Chamnix

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My civ choice: Korea

60% Pangaea, Normal, Temperate, 5 Billion
No barbs.
Normal AI Aggression.

My rivals: Greece, Babylon, Germany, Persia, Ottomans, Sumeria, Byzantines.

I’m not really sure what difference the climate settings make. I know warm and wet is good for producing jungle for milk runs, but in diplo games I feel I never have the time to clear jungle anyway, so normal and temperate seemed appropriate.

My first few starts I had sedentary barbs. I didn’t pop any huts myself unless I could do so by settling next to them, but I figured speeding the AI tech pace wouldn’t be a bad thing… right up until I saw a Babylonian warrior pop Philosophy 2 turns before I would have completed it :wallbash: - after that I ran a whole new set of maps with no barbs.

Even still, it took me several starts before I successfully completed the Republic slingshot, most often being beaten by the Byzantines (I should have listened to Bartleby!).

This is the start that looks like it will be played to completion:



I decided settlers took priority over a granary, so I think my first 4 builds from the capital were all settlers (there were 2 more cows not far away to the west). Other towns built warriors for exploration and MP, 2 curraghs to circle the landmass, and of course workers.

I researched Writing first in the hopes of being able to trade for Pottery by the time I needed a granary and for a chance at an early SGL. Neither happened :(. But I finally pulled off the slingshot :).

As of 1000 BC:



14 towns
36 citizens
2 settlers
19 workers
2 curraghs
2 warriors :lol: (I had more but these were the only 2 that could discover significant new land when I reached Republic so the others were disbanded).

Only AA techs lacking are Currency (currently researching), Monarchy (who cares?), Map Making (known by several AI), and Construction (only known by the Greeks so far among known civs). I have monopolies (as far as I know - I still hadn't met Germany or Persia) on Literature and the Republic.

925 BC I completed Currency and traded my way into the Middle Ages.
 

Chamnix

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I traded my way into the Middle Ages in 925 BC forgoing my chance at a second tier tech, but I made sure everyone had all first tier techs plus Republic and Literature to make the AI as useful as possible.

I chose Sumeria and the Byzantines as my primary tech partners. The Sumerians had the largest population and the most cities, and the Byzantines seemed to be the fastest to most Ancient Age techs. I constantly borrowed money from them bumping up their gpt and never accepted gpt from either of them. The other civs I took all I could get to finance my research.

In 775 BC, I met Persia, and in 710 BC the Germans completed my list of contacts.

The entire Middle Ages was a time of peace and infrastructure building. The AI had some research ability but picked poor research paths in general. My best trading partner was invariably the Byzantines (I knew I wanted them in this game for a reason :smug:!).

My research:

Theology -18 turns :cringe:
Education – 9 turns
Banking – 8 turns
Chemistry – 6 turns
Metallurgy – 5 turns
Physics – 4 turns
Magnetism – 4 turns
Theory of Gravity – 4 turns

The AI picked up Invention, Gunpowder, and Astronomy as well as Chivalry, Printing Press, Democracy, Free Artistry, and Music Theory :shake:.

There was a scary moment when I realized I didn’t have any saltpeter in my territory, none was nearby, and nobody had any extra available for trade. I was planning to kick off my GA as I started the Industrial Age, but no saltpeter = no Hwach’as. I almost abandoned the game, but fortunately Greece eventually got around to hooking up a second source which I gratefully purchased ASAP.

I didn’t build either of the science wonders. Mainly because I have a very hard time timing the prebuilds right and not losing them in the cascades from the big early wonders. Besides, I’m not sure they are that great a value unless you have a super science city:

Library – 40 shields, +50% research.
University – 100 shields, +50% research.
Science Wonder – 400 shields, +100% research.

They are not exactly economical, so I decided to pour shields into military instead to try to capture cities for science farms. I would have gladly built one or both with an SGL or 2, but by the end of the Middle Ages, I had not gotten a single SGL.

Here is my empire as of 150 AD as I am about to enter the Industrial Age:



 

AutomatedTeller

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Looks good Chamnix!!! Looks like I gotta fire up mapfinder again - 840 AD isn't looking so hot.

I think both wet and warm up the number of jungles - I may try a normal/temperate too, cause jungle is a pain. I have heard that wet affects the number of rivers, but i'm not sure.

ever play a warm, arid map? lots' o' desert and lot's o' floodplain.
 
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