G-Major 36

[HolyHandGrenade]

Does it?
Can you see the peace treaty on F4-Active_trades screen?

Yes, you have a "peace treaty" and get the "peace treaty canceled" message after 10 turns. As I posted somewhere above, after submitting my game I used an intermediate save file with Kublai as my immediate neighbor and don't renew the trade. One turn after I got the "peace treaty canceled" message he DoWed. I noticed this behaviour 1st when I had trades with all civs and got "peace treaty canceled" message 8 times in the same round. But it only works with real trades, only granting an amount of gold don't count. But granting something for 10 turns seems to work too (I only used resources, never checked it with gpt)

 

[ryzax]

Finally managed to get that aggro warmonger Gandhi off my back and finish in 1863. Glad that's over.

I almost got into that situation with my second attempt with this gauntlet. Gandhi was on my right and he was piling up his Infantries, SAM Infantries and artilleries just near my borders. He must have sensed that I am on my way to cultural victory. What makes him hesitate to attack me (I think) was my defensive pact with the mega-powerful Cyrus. It is very easy to have a defensive pact with him, even just at 'Pleased' and the good thing about that is he always land as the most powerful civ (maybe not if you neutralize him early in the game). Better be friends with the strong ones.

A few turns before victory, I heard the cursed war sound and it was very loud! Good thing it was not on me but Cyrus and his vassals against Gandhi and his vassals, as well (yes, Gandhi was a warmonger during the entire game!). So too bad for Gandhi, the troops that he saved for me will instead face a much larger Persian army.

About your game, who did you use and did you ever run on Pacifism? On the game I described above, I am on really crappy lands during early to mid-game and only survived because of diplomacy and Great People. Won on 1600ish, though I finished earlier with my first attempt.

 

[jesusin]

Yes, you have a "peace treaty" and get the "peace treaty canceled" message after 10 turns. As I posted somewhere above, after submitting my game I used an intermediate save file with Kublai as my immediate neighbor and don't renew the trade. One turn after I got the "peace treaty canceled" message he DoWed. I noticed this behaviour 1st when I had trades with all civs and got "peace treaty canceled" message 8 times in the same round. But it only works with real trades, only granting an amount of gold don't count. But granting something for 10 turns seems to work too (I only used resources, never checked it with gpt)

I don't have a peace treaty when I trade my resources for their resources, nor when I trade my resource for their gpt.
Are we both playing BTS 3.17 with HOF?

 

[ryzax]

some thought: though the human player can declare war on an A.I. he has a defensive pact with, have you ever seen a leader who declared war on you even if you have a defensive pact with him?

thinking that civs that I have defensive pacts with might betray me really stresses me so I need an insight on this one.

 

[Harbourboy]

I played as the Khmer and I never used Pacifism because I always had a big defensive army (but almost not big, or modern, enough when Gandhi attacked).

 

[jesusin]

some thought: though the human player can declare war on an A.I. he has a defensive pact with, have you ever seen a leader who declared war on you even if you have a defensive pact with him?

Yes, I have. I think it was last immortal vanilla GOTM, I wrote about it in my spoiler.

 

[ryzax]

Need to decide now (immediately after researching rifles) whther to switch to US to rush buy or continue with representation (I'd need to run culture at 10% or so to make up for the happiness bonus loss if I switched to US).

Also need to decide whether to switch to Free Market or continue with Merc. If I switch to US I'll definitely go FM. I'll probably go FM just before going max culture slider.

you should have switched to US while sloooooooowly researching Rifling. Unless the A.I.s are already near Rifling or is it not?

Never run on Merc. I can't afford to lose the commerce from trade routes when Merc will only give me one specialist and just make GP production faster by a few turns. that's why there is pacifism.

 

[ryzax]

I played as the Khmer and I never used Pacifism because I always had a big defensive army (but almost not big, or modern, enough when Gandhi attacked).

you can cover up the cost using money-resource trades. Play as another civ and add the Khmer as your opponent. During my previous games, Survy always have like at least 12 gpt available for trade. He actually pays for my unit costs. haha.

 

[ryzax]

Yes, I have. I think it was last immortal vanilla GOTM, I wrote about it in my spoiler.

is it the same with BtS?

 

[jesusin]

I guess so. If the human can dow his DP partner, why wouldn't the AI be allowed to?

 

[ryzax]

I guess so. If the human can dow his DP partner, why wouldn't the AI be allowed to?

well, theoretically. But there are leaders who are predisposed to betray their friends and those who will honor their friendships no matter what, right?

 

[cabert]

3 games submitted already.
looks feasable then

 

[HolyHandGrenade]

I don't have a peace treaty when I trade my resources for their resources, nor when I trade my resource for their gpt.
Are we both playing BTS 3.17 with HOF?

Ok, I just checked it again, you are right, it's not flagged as a "peace treaty". I run a test with the old save and I noticed the following behaviour. Here are the current relations

and here the currently active trades

if I press "return" using this save Izzy will DoW me. If I renew the trade

I can press 10 times <Return> and never got DoWed by her. The same happens with Kublai in this game, if I stop renewing my trades he DoWes me sooner or later. If I always renew the trades he never declares. I must inspect the "peace treaty canceled" message a little bit deeper, because I really cannot assign the steady messages to any event. My assumption was that they are related to the end of the "can be canceled" message, but I have to verify.

 

[HolyHandGrenade]

Further observations:
The war with Izzy can only be delayed using the "renew" trade method. I tried all possible combinations res/gpt gpt/res res/res -/res -/gpt to achieve the 10 turn "cannot be canceled" period. The only result is that the DoW was delayed by 5 turns. I can try to play further to see if the same habbit occurs when Kublai is preparing for war (different reli, close borders and no.1 in power). It seems he can be calmed with trades. Hmm, really strange, I always interpreted those "peace treaty canceled" message as the point where I had to renew the trades immediately and interestingly it works (with Kublai, not with Izzy). Any ideas or even better facts?

 

[FiveAces]

Further observations:
The war with Izzy can only be delayed using the "renew" trade method. I tried all possible combinations res/gpt gpt/res res/res -/res -/gpt to achieve the 10 turn "cannot be canceled" period. The only result is that the DoW was delayed by 5 turns. I can try to play further to see if the same habbit occurs when Kublai is preparing for war (different reli, close borders and no.1 in power). It seems he can be calmed with trades. Hmm, really strange, I always interpreted those "peace treaty canceled" message as the point where I had to renew the trades immediately and interestingly it works (with Kublai, not with Izzy). Any ideas or even better facts?

I've seen posters who can read the code state the 10-turn peace treaty is only given if you ask for tribute/help and they cave or vice-versa - it is not given with OB's, tech or resource trades. My guess as to why resource trades appear to have the same result is the AI is taking the loss of the resource into account in it's DOW timing and delaying for this reason, although that is purely a guess.

 

[cabert]

so if I didn't mess the settings, i'm done here
a bit long for another run, and certainly far from optimal settings for my EQM filling

1658 for me
Not really great, but I'm quite happy with it

 

[billybgame]

My culture cities have 4 religions each without doing anything deliberate. Are you sure you're not running Theocracy or something?

Heck, no....I know better than that.

As far as the no religion founding advice, I've played plenty of games, like it sounds Harbour Boy is playing, where even if you found one, you get others brought into your civ. Naturally, just not in this one so far, for me.

I understand that post about Montezuma. He's on my crap list. I may start all my games with a "must wipe out Montezuma" mentality. He's such a troublemaker, it's unreal. We share Hinduism, yet he's declared war on me 4 times. Luckily. he wars like a dunce, bringing only a few units at at time. I've lost a few here and there, but he's lost a ton.

Napoleon also brought me war, from a place far away. I never even found his area, before the land rush stopped my exploring. A much bigger stack with 5 Horse Archers and an Archer, but my high level spearman and axeman showed him something.

Does seem I've been pretty lucky about not getting overwhelmed with wars, even though I've been low on the totem pole in Power. Have started to spruce things up a bit with Longbowmen, and soon, Macemen.

Well, if I don't get more religions, this is probably just a waste of time. Here's hoping.

 

[ryzax]

so if I didn't mess the settings, i'm done here
a bit long for another run, and certainly far from optimal settings for my EQM filling

1658 for me
Not really great, but I'm quite happy with it

Did you use Lizzy?

 

[cabert]

Did you use Lizzy?

No, I needed Germany for EQM
... and the game is yet to be accepted

edit: now it is, I'm 3rd and not going to try to get better (it's very much possible that I lose this 3rd place before the day is over though )

 

[Harbourboy]

My game is in last place. My games are always in last place.