G-Major XLII

[Moriarte]

What else is there to take for all in domination? I mean you certainly aren't getting protectionism that early, so commerce is out, except, maybe, the road bonus, which certainly seems viable with such distances. As is patronage, rationalism, aesthetics and exploration. The only options for such a thing would be either Monarchy or full honor. I guess honor is more attractive, even though he had to keep scouts in most cities. There is also boosted XP, which should be a blast in combination with UA.

 

[Cromagnus]

Agree with both of you. I do like the roads bonus in tradition, especially on this map. I like the tradition opener for the cultural boundaries. That saves a non trivial amount of gold, so think of it as a gpt policy. I guess my point was, mixed liberty/honor is probably better than liberty->honor. Timing on the cheap upgrades and fast barracks is everything. If you aren't building libraries (boggle) then you don't need the liberty closer, and on this map the bonuses from connected cities are less easy to achieve, so why not go into honor earlier?

Still, mostly agree with y'all. I really like commerce though. If you're going for CS allies as hard as he was maybe go into that tree to scholasticism?

I think Tommy's point about CS allies is crucial on this map. With the distances you're traveling, that can be a 20-turn difference if you can fight from and heal in a nearby CS instead of having to fight your way around them. I was already doing this when I happened to have a nearby ally, but unlike tommy I wasn't prioritizing it. I'll have to try this map again sometime with some of these ideas (settlers before pyramids, focus on CS allies) in mind. Late pyramids is totally viable with cooked opponents. I was über focused on getting pyramids by t40. Which actually explains why I was having more success with honor... I was focusing on early settlers.

PS If you see me posting on the forums, it's because I can't play.

 

[tommynt]

planted scientist form lib finisher doesnt give that much less bakkers as NC

 

[Cromagnus]

Planted scientist isn't as good unless you don't build a library in the capital. Size 10 capital with library is 15 beakers. NC +3 makes it 18, + 50% is 27, for +12 total. Plus you have to work the academy. by t120 NC is giving more like 30 extra beakers.

However! Hmmm.... If you plant the GS and hard-build NC, you'll get way more beakers before artillery than either by itself would give. I'd say 1000 extra beakers by then, which is at least 7 turns shaved off artillery. I'll have to try that.

 

[tommynt]

I was saying "not much less" - not same and your calculations prove me right

either way i dont see the point of arties .. espacially on such a HUGE map - even having them takes u still ages to move/road to all caps and upgraded xbows really do the job nearly same good.

 

[Cromagnus]

If you can finish by t165, yes, I can see doing it with XBows, barely. But if you're even a little later than that, you need artillery, so in any game that doesn't go perfectly, you're hamstringing your success by abandoning science at Machinery. For most of us, or even for you with a less than ideal start, if you don't manage to clear the map by then, artillery is necessary, and therefore, any strategy, to be successful, must get you artillery as early as possible. /shrug

 

[tommynt]

even muskets cavs and canons die easy to masses of fuly upgraded xbows knighs and impies ..

AI might kill every turn 1 or 2 units - but what does it help when 3 more arrive?

If have had the experience this game and in many others before - once some front/core army of ai is beaten there is hardly much resitence.
Now add in that u get nearly 1 general for every city u take and u can easily cita hard spots - this is just so easy ...

 

[Moriarte]

If you can finish by t165, yes, I can see doing it with XBows, barely. But if you're even a little later than that, you need artillery, so in any game that doesn't go perfectly, you're hamstringing your success by abandoning science at Machinery. For most of us, or even for you with a less than ideal start, if you don't manage to clear the map by then, artillery is necessary, and therefore, any strategy, to be successful, must get you artillery as early as possible. /shrug

This is where rationalism might come useful. You can go full in liberty, then, say pick 2 policies someplace (cheap roads in commerce, or consulates) and then secularism all the way up to artilleries around t.170 to finish 3 remaining civs. Sub t.200 should be doable with this. t.165 requires a great deal of finesse in fighting (and in everything else), unless you're Harun al Rashid or tommy the keshik...

Heck, i almost did t.200 during my run with full commerce, if not for a 15 turn walk through hills just to reach Venice.

 

[Cromagnus]

Interesting point you make, Moriarte, even with the nerf, for Domination, Consulates might be the best choice. CS allies really really help. A permanent +20 to faction would help a lot...

 

[Denniz]

Results:

G-Major XLII - Domination, Deity, Standard, Highlands, Standard, Zulu (Shaka)
1st moriarte - 1525 AD T-215

Congratulations to moriarte!

 

[tommynt]

Well I gave u guys a chance - but if submitting gets ignored i ll ignore this section again aswell

 

[Moriarte]

It won't be ignored. It'll pop up with next update. Unless you forgot to upload it.

 

[Cromagnus]

Yeah, it might not have been processed yet. Also, check your PMs. It's possible you accidentally broke a rule.

 

[sanabas]

Yeah, it might not have been processed yet. Also, check your PMs. It's possible you accidentally broke a rule.

Check email, not PMs.

 

[Cromagnus]

Er, right, email.

I'm eventually going to come back to this Highlands map and give it another shot, even though the Gauntlet is over. I think I need to work on my general tactics more first. I should have just finished some of my slow games. I had a few games which could have gone for a t260 victory or so, but since Moriarte had already posted a t207 or whatever, I figured there was no point. But with so few submissions now I'm wishing I'd just finished one of those!

 

[Moriarte]

I will never go to highlands map again, unless i'm forced to do so with a pistol to my head, or the aliens force me do so to save the human race, or both. Sandbox type of maps break immersion for me (hey, the world isn't round!), besides to function properly this particular one needs double the amount of AIs.

How about ..

Spoiler :

With not so many deity games played at hof (and i mostly enjoy st./st./deity/random civs), i wonder, Cromagnus, would you be interested to participate in a "duel"? If you, and anyone else, are interested, we can fire up a thread with settings, like: continents/pangaea/specific civ/specific VC. Well, let's say culture or dom., the rest of victory conditions are simple. There are two weeks till the next update, so, more than enough time to do one game.

My offer is this: Korea, deity, standard everything, pangaea, domination. (or culture, if you're up for it). So, how about it?

 

[Cromagnus]

I will never go to highlands map again, unless i'm forced to do so with a pistol to my head, or the aliens force me do so to save the human race, or both. Sandbox type of maps break immersion for me (hey, the world isn't round!), besides to function properly this particular one needs double the amount of AIs.

How about ..

Spoiler :

With not so many deity games played at hof (and i mostly enjoy st./st./deity/random civs), i wonder, Cromagnus, would you be interested to participate in a "duel"? If you, and anyone else, are interested, we can fire up a thread with settings, like: continents/pangaea/specific civ/specific VC. Well, let's say culture or dom., the rest of victory conditions are simple. There are two weeks till the next update, so, more than enough time to do one game.

My offer is this: Korea, deity, standard everything, pangaea, domination. (or culture, if you're up for it). So, how about it?

Haha, I hear you, Moriarte. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this map type is obnoxious. Maybe with Small for the size and 8 AIs it would have been fine. The general lack of luxuries tempts me to say that Abundant resources would be a good idea too. However, I don't mind that aspect of the challenge as much as the empty space.

Spoiler :

Regarding a new game, I like the idea. Do you mean with a set map to level the playing field or more like standard HoF rules? I think a set map lessens the impact of lucky rerolls, which means I don't waste a lot of time re-rolling. ;-)

As far as civs, I'm down the Korea idea.

I wouldn't mind an Arabia Domination challenge. I'm also curious to try Maya for Domination. And I've been wanting to play with Japan post-patch.

Another fun one might be Poland, with the requirement that you complete either Honor or Piety, no specific VC required... just fastest finish time.

But either way, it's a good idea.

So yeah, maybe we should start a new thread.

 

[Moriarte]

Glad you're up for it. One thing i don't like about deity challenges is that you never really know how much anyone cheated. I'd like to try this one in HOF format. Will post new thread in HOF section shortly. The next one is on you: i like your Mayan and Polish ideas.

 

[Peets]

Er, right, email.

I'm eventually going to come back to this Highlands map and give it another shot, even though the Gauntlet is over. I think I need to work on my general tactics more first. I should have just finished some of my slow games. I had a few games which could have gone for a t260 victory or so, but since Moriarte had already posted a t207 or whatever, I figured there was no point. But with so few submissions now I'm wishing I'd just finished one of those!

There is a point, you get points for your VVV

 

[Cromagnus]

HoF format? Who's going to verify the submissions? I think the HOF team already have their hands full with the official HOF. Or do you mean everyone participating would submit their games as official HOF entries, and just make an agreement ahead of time to stick to specific civ/map/vc/etc.?