G-Major XLVII

I would go so far as to say, OCC + Always Peace, for true Cultural Victory purity. No Sacred Sites plus no Domination hybrid. Not even stolen Workers.:D


Be sure, someone find a way to win OCC cultural victory with razing all but one civ. This is a forum of gentlemen not of ladies. :D
 
I can execute the most of the tactics that have been mentioned, and applied some of my own, AND had some LUCK on my best efforts...BUT I seem to always get hampered by lack of money!! How the hell do you guys progress so quickly without depleting all your funds. I can win...even on the hardest levels. But attempting a gauntlet winning time....My science always gets nailed by depleted economy. I appreciate any help...Getting frustrated:mad::mad:
 
I can execute the most of the tactics that have been mentioned, and applied some of my own, AND had some LUCK on my best efforts...BUT I seem to always get hampered by lack of money!! How the hell do you guys progress so quickly without depleting all your funds. I can win...even on the hardest levels. But attempting a gauntlet winning time....My science always gets nailed by depleted economy. I appreciate any help...Getting frustrated:mad::mad:

The key is to be a minimalist. Almost everything you build has a maintenance cost. Do you really need a shrine? Or a water mill? Or another worker? Can you take that city with 4 units instead of 5?

Also, and this is fundamental to rapid expansion, every city you build or capture has to not only break even, maintenance-wise, it has to be profitable. Annexing can actually save a lot of money. The last thing you want is for that captured city to have a granary and water mill, but it'll build them if you let it.

Point is, if you're slow on city capture, your army maintenance cost will kill you. The faster you take cities, the more gpt you have.

Religion will save you. Get gold from religious beliefs. Pillage. Demand tribute. Maximize... and minimize. ;)
 
I can execute the most of the tactics that have been mentioned, and applied some of my own, AND had some LUCK on my best efforts...BUT I seem to always get hampered by lack of money!! How the hell do you guys progress so quickly without depleting all your funds. I can win...even on the hardest levels. But attempting a gauntlet winning time....My science always gets nailed by depleted economy. I appreciate any help...Getting frustrated:mad::mad:

City capture, pillage, sell buildings in captured cities, trade away resources to AI (a bad deal is better than no deal), 2 gold/city from religion, deleting unnecessary workers and building markets is key...

I didn't ask for tribute in my last game should start doing that...
 
The key is to be a minimalist. Almost everything you build has a maintenance cost. Do you really need a shrine? Or a water mill? Or another worker? Can you take that city with 4 units instead of 5?

Also, and this is fundamental to rapid expansion, every city you build or capture has to not only break even, maintenance-wise, it has to be profitable. Annexing can actually save a lot of money. The last thing you want is for that captured city to have a granary and water mill, but it'll build them if you let it.

Point is, if you're slow on city capture, your army maintenance cost will kill you. The faster you take cities, the more gpt you have.

Religion will save you. Get gold from religious beliefs. Pillage. Demand tribute. Maximize... and minimize. ;)

Appreciate the help guys...Getting better:D
 
Turn 172 using SS. Had second pantheon, first religion and first enhancement. No wars, but Siam was guarded most of the game due to my forward settling him. Ended up with 68 base tourism a turn. Allied two military CS, which helped me keep Siam at bay, they never could come close to my military as I was getting chariot archers and horsemen fairly regular. Egypt was my final influential, using the GM I received from finishing Liberty.
 
I've had a few goes at this one and clearly have a lot to learn. Full peaceful was my only victory but in a time that was really quite lame (T397!!!). I ditched that save but given my next three goes should have kept it to submit!

Attempt 2 was an aggressive so I took out France but then got world hate and everyone DOWed me.

Attempt 3 was back to peaceful but Austria voted for Siam and I lost diplomatically.

Attempt 4 is unlikely to get done in time for submission but was aggressive with two armies (archers and warriors with an upgrade to comp bows mid-campaign). I took Egypt's cities and three from Brazil. Celts gave me Cardiff in peace deal and Siam gave me something I had to give away to stay in single digit unhappiness. Lost momentum while trying to rebuild economy and fund a continued war effort and deal with barbarians as my empire is pretty spread out and had lots of "dark map". Now Austria's forward settled and magicked up an army in the middle of my empire and I'm DOWed from all sides so this looks like a slog or a quit...
 
Is there a new Gauntlet listed that I am missing?? Sorry to be anxious, off work today,and looking to put Gustavus Adolfus behind me and start May of with something new:) Congrats to all you guys that nailed this in under 200 turns...It was tougher than it looked!!
 
Congrats to all you guys that nailed this in under 200 turns...It was tougher than it looked!!

My sentiments exactly. Took a few shots at this and felt like I could never get off the ground; at least not in a way that would lead to anything close to a decent finish time. Had a war effort grind to a halt and was still going at t310 on a peaceful attempt. Maybe my start locations were just as bad as I think they were :p
 
Just FYI, there's actually a non-intuitive reason why some people experience a map as being difficult and others don't.

If you've ever played on Settler, you might have noticed that, when left to their own devices, the AI will often still be in the Stone Age on t300. The AI is coded with advantages on higher levels to make them progress faster. Unfortunately, those AI behaviors break down when the player does certain things.

The end result is, if you don't interfere with the AI progress, the game is MUCH harder on higher difficulty levels. If you do interfere with their progress, it's hardly more challenging than Prince.

I've mostly figured this out by accident over time, because I've been warmonger-obsessed for the last six months. (after being almost entirely a peaceful player for every previous incarnation of CIV)

So, here's a simple example. When you declare war on an AI, it changes their priorities. They will focus on defense instead of progress. It interrupts wonder builds, worker builds, settler builds, etc.

If you declare war on every AI, every AI will be slower to progress.

Let's take it a step further. If you have the #1 military, AI will give you all their gold, luxuries and even their cities to make peace. This is true even if you're at war with every AI. Meaning that every AI will offer you all their resources or even a city. You can do this roughly every 20 turns. (10 turns of peace treaty, followed by 5-10 turns before they'll ask for a peace deal)

Even if you just raze those cities, you're setting their tech progress way back by reducing population, destroying libraries they took time to build, etc.. Even if you just take their money and luxuries, you're destroying their economy and happiness.

If you also pillage their resources, steal their workers and pick off their units, you set them back even more.

People often say "you were lucky, in my game, the AI tech rate was much higher"... Well, it's not luck. It's a (coincidental) result of my highly aggressive behavior.

This doesn't touch on the advantages you receive from all this extortion. All the extra money, happiness, etc. Or the money you get from city capture and pillage.

And, as an added bonus, you can extort money and workers from City States with the #1 military.

If you add that on top of micro-management of cities, faith management, worker actions, build order, tech order, and fast, aggressive zero-casualty warfare, and the fact that warfare supplements almost every victory type (science excluded)... is it any wonder that the difference in turn time is so vast?

If you only look at one element, it can be hard to understand how the results vary so much. But ultimately, it boils down to the snowball effect. If you maximize yours, while minimizing the AI's, it dramatically affects the outcome. Actions on turns 1-50 dramatically affect turn 200. Compound interest baby. ;)

So, when you put it all together, some people are having a tougher time, not because they're being less efficient or less effective. It's simply because they're not interfering with the AI. Now, of course, effective aggression requires a lot of practice, so you can't just get this "easy mode" for free. You have to juggle efficient empire management with effective troop movements, you have to proritize libraries vs archers, etc. etc. It's not EASY to make the game easy... if that makes sense. Hehe.

Anyway, point is, have fun with the map regardless. Extreme micromanagement and min/maxing isn't everyone's cup of tea. It does happen to be the way to win gauntlets. ;)
 
First of all
People often say "you were lucky, in my game, the AI tech rate was much higher"... Well, it's not luck. It's a (coincidental) result of my highly aggressive behavior.

Not a chance...Your consistency and experience speak volumes....Anyone that says is just making a false pretense to form a Rationalization...."Sour Grapes":shake:

Couple Questions about your effort in this Gauntlet: Still having issues with my economy

Also, and this is fundamental to rapid expansion, every city you build or capture has to not only break even, maintenance-wise, it has to be profitable. Annexing can actually save a lot of money. The last thing you want is for that captured city to have a granary and water mill, but it'll build them if you let it.

Point is, if you're slow on city capture, your army maintenance cost will kill you. The faster you take cities, the more gpt you have.

I feel like a idiot, but I just want to confirm...."Granarys and Water mills are bad!!??" Don't your cities grow quicker...more science, more tiles occupied...Maybe you can go into more detail because if I have one or more WHEAT tiles then a Granary is usually one of the first things I build.

Any advice on Trade routes...would you say that your "Strong efforts" are completely UNPLUNDERED because rebuilding a entire fleet of caravans/cargo ships can end your effort quickly! I had some really good attempts thwarted my Maria Theresa conveniently befriending City-States in my path. (How she knows where my trade routes are going when she is on the other side of the world is a mystery to me:gripe: )

I was able to handle my local enemies quite nicely....So in this Gauntlet would you travel to the far side of the map and mess with those Civs, or do you do it mainly by just declaring "WAR" and then reconciling.

Point is, if you're slow on city capture, your army maintenance cost will kill you. The faster you take cities, the more gpt you have.

Does that mean you build your army, and tear down the non critical units, or does it just mean you haven't attained the reward yet so your treading water til the goal is accomplished.

The end result is, if you don't interfere with the AI progress, the game is MUCH harder on higher difficulty levels. If you do interfere with their progress, it's hardly more challenging than Prince.

I've mostly figured this out by accident over time, because I've been warmonger-obsessed for the last six months. (after being almost entirely a peaceful player for every previous incarnation of CIV)

So, here's a simple example. When you declare war on an AI, it changes their priorities. They will focus on defense instead of progress. It interrupts wonder builds, worker builds, settler builds, etc.

If you declare war on every AI, every AI will be slower to progress.

Let's take it a step further. If you have the #1 military, AI will give you all their gold, luxuries and even their cities to make peace. This is true even if you're at war with every AI. Meaning that every AI will offer you all their resources or even a city. You can do this roughly every 20 turns. (10 turns of peace treaty, followed by 5-10 turns before they'll ask for a peace deal)

This has been my strategy....but perfecting isn't easy, thanks for the write up it's not falling upon deaf ears. I was in the lower 200s on most of my best efforts. I appreciate the insight. AND with all this said about "Messing with the A1"..... How the hell did Swissy get a 172 with "No Wars".....AMAZING! I

Turn 172 using SS. Had second pantheon, first religion and first enhancement. No wars, but Siam was guarded most of the game due to my forward settling him. Ended up with 68 base tourism a turn. Allied two military CS, which helped me keep Siam at bay, they never could come close to my military as I was getting chariot archers and horsemen fairly regular. Egypt was my final influential, using the GM I received from finishing Liberty.
 
I feel like a idiot, but I just want to confirm...."Granarys and Water mills are bad!!??"

Any advice on Trade routes...would you say that your "Strong efforts" are completely UNPLUNDERED because rebuilding a entire fleet of caravans/cargo ships can end your effort quickly! I had some really good attempts thwarted my Maria Theresa conveniently befriending City-States in my path. (How she knows where my trade routes are going when she is on the other side of the world is a mystery to me:gripe: )

I was able to handle my local enemies quite nicely....So in this Gauntlet would you travel to the far side of the map and mess with those Civs, or do you do it mainly by just declaring "WAR" and then reconciling.

Does that mean you build your army, and tear down the non critical units, or does it just mean you haven't attained the reward yet so your treading water til the goal is accomplished.

Re: Granaries/etc. - For fast conquest, production happiness and gpt are what really matters. Tech rate doesn't matter at all. So growth doesn't matter at all. Sure you'll get more production in the long run if you let your cities grow, but that implies there *is* a long run, and the longer you take to execute conquest, the harder it gets. So, any added production or technology gains come at a cost. The only exception to this is (IMHO) Immortal or Deity on water maps, where you *can't* clear the map before Astronomy, meaning the AI would out-tech you significantly if you didn't focus on tech, at least until Frigates. But I digress. That granary is increasing the population of that puppet city and decreasing your excess gpt. In other words, you're losing gpt AND happiness by letting that granary get built. Heck, even if that city is only building walls, it could be building a market instead. Of course, you have to absorb the initial unhappiness and Social Policy cost of annexing. But, in the specific case of this map, it pays for itself. Annexing allows you to stall growth, focus on production/gold, build units, rush-buy religious buildings or units, etc.

The religious buildings compensate for the additional happiness and cultural needs. And in the case of sacred sites, they ARE your win condition. So, long story short, I annexed every city I didn't raze on this map, kept them as small as I could, and pumped out units.


Re: Trade Routes

I do rely on trade routes. Generally I only make CS trade routes that my enemies can't plunder. This sort of works itself out as you capture nearby cities... there aren't any AI who can interfere. Barbarians are a bigger concern, but the constant supply of units I'm sending to the front can deal with them. Or just keep one or two back at home for emergencies and build all your units at the front lines.

Re: Remote Enemies

Yes, one of the tactics that I used to achieve t132 was DoWing remote enemies. They'd offer cities in peace deals that I would then raze. This meant that I only had one city to capture by the time I got there. It was instrumental to my finish time, IMHO.

Re: Army Maintenance

I just mean that if you build up an army and capture cities slowly, you're paying for this army every turn but your gpt stalls until the next capture. Fast capture has a snowball effect on your gpt. Each capture gives you gold, each pillage gives you gold, and each puppet increases your gpt. So, if you have 10 units and take 20 turns to take a city, you'll start to feel the burn on your GPT. If you take 10 turns to take that city, you get a nice lump sum and some more gpt to help the war effort. Meanwhile, your enemies are building walls, teching machinery, etc... Slow capture = slower capture on the next city = slow finish times. Which of course implies that your combat tactics have to be very efficient. Positioning, timing, etc. all matters. It makes a huge difference to pick off enemy units before attacking the city. It makes a huge difference to attack the city with 4 archers at once rather than with 2 while the other 2 are still moving into range. Which leads to the biggest point of them all: Movement rate is a huge factor. That's ultimately why your second army (if not your first) should be chariot archers. Movement rate is everything, because you only have so many turns before the AI gets musketmen. ;)
 
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