Gosha190
King
Are there any assumptions of a winner's date?
What do you think about dates before 1000AD?
What do you think about dates before 1000AD?
G-Minor 16
- Thread starter superslug
- Start date
I've given this a go twice now. Its pretty hard. I thought it would be easier than the Diety Major but it really isn't. Its a much more 'open' problem. Maybe I'll just wait for the good players to have a go and copy what they did. Seems to work most times! 
Some observations
1) The highlands map is big! Its gonna be pretty hard conquering it all while building/keeping a population big enough to win the vote AND at the same time keeping up the tech do get to MM quickly. It takes >20 turns for a fast unit to move across the world even using roads.
2) The opponents are a tricky bunch. Many like to research their own religions and then stick to them, causing grief all round. Stalin and Shaka in particular are a pain as Stalin is miserable, grumpy and unfriendly and Shaka flies off the handle at any slight provocation....
3) They tech SO slowly! You have to give them everything you tech if you want to get any help on the path to MM.
4) If you try OCC, as per the Diety plan, the opponents will come and stomp on you unless you build a military, in which case MM gets put back. Winning the vote from here will also be a problem.
5) 'You traded with our worst enemy' wrecks you unless everyone is of the same religion!
I have tried two plans.
First, build a super science city, a super production city and 5 others. Then concentrate on pumping out the missionaries and enough military to keep me safe while researching ALL the religions, giving away tons of free techs and heading for MM. The aim here was to make almost everyone the same religion and make it so I was the 'best friend' of everyone by the time of the vote. Problems: it was slow getting to MM (1500 AD) and then I missed Islam and Christianity by trying to be too clever. Needless to say by the time of the vote, half my opponents had been converted by Brennus and Wang and things had all gone pear-shaped.
Second plan. Build an army, stomp everyone apart from one or two others, win by default. Problems. It was a big map and I just didn't get done stomping by the time the vote came round! I lost (or at least failed to win) again.
I think my new plan will be to keep my super science capital and beeline MM while having the rest of my empire concentrate on military. I wonder if I can conquer the world by 1200 AD with just horse archer and knights??? I'm also gonna give it a go at getting EVERY religion this time. I might need a double oasis start to get both Buddhism and Hinduism...
Some observations
1) The highlands map is big! Its gonna be pretty hard conquering it all while building/keeping a population big enough to win the vote AND at the same time keeping up the tech do get to MM quickly. It takes >20 turns for a fast unit to move across the world even using roads.
2) The opponents are a tricky bunch. Many like to research their own religions and then stick to them, causing grief all round. Stalin and Shaka in particular are a pain as Stalin is miserable, grumpy and unfriendly and Shaka flies off the handle at any slight provocation....
3) They tech SO slowly! You have to give them everything you tech if you want to get any help on the path to MM.
4) If you try OCC, as per the Diety plan, the opponents will come and stomp on you unless you build a military, in which case MM gets put back. Winning the vote from here will also be a problem.
5) 'You traded with our worst enemy' wrecks you unless everyone is of the same religion!
I have tried two plans.
First, build a super science city, a super production city and 5 others. Then concentrate on pumping out the missionaries and enough military to keep me safe while researching ALL the religions, giving away tons of free techs and heading for MM. The aim here was to make almost everyone the same religion and make it so I was the 'best friend' of everyone by the time of the vote. Problems: it was slow getting to MM (1500 AD) and then I missed Islam and Christianity by trying to be too clever. Needless to say by the time of the vote, half my opponents had been converted by Brennus and Wang and things had all gone pear-shaped.
Second plan. Build an army, stomp everyone apart from one or two others, win by default. Problems. It was a big map and I just didn't get done stomping by the time the vote came round! I lost (or at least failed to win) again.
I think my new plan will be to keep my super science capital and beeline MM while having the rest of my empire concentrate on military. I wonder if I can conquer the world by 1200 AD with just horse archer and knights??? I'm also gonna give it a go at getting EVERY religion this time. I might need a double oasis start to get both Buddhism and Hinduism...
I tried the 'get all the religions plan' again and managed to found every last one. I built 7 cities as planned and concentrated on cottages to speed my way to MM. Unfortunately, my plan to start sending out missionaries once I figured out which of my cities could best be changed to a religious production line backfired.
Around 900AD all my secondary religions suddenly leaked out across the globe and within 15-20 turns at least 4 opponents had converted, were now no longer friends with me and had the cursed -4 'you traded with our worst enemies'. They then closed borders so I couldn't reconvert them to the true way - which in this case was confuscianism. After that, any attempts to bring them back in to the fold caused -4 trading problems with my other friends. In short, the whole thing went to pieces.... By the time the vote came along EVERY opponent had the -4 'you traded with our worst enemies'! Shaka won the vote
I still think this plan could work, you just need to send out the missionaries asap. For this reason I am thinking of going with hinduism from the get-go.
I had no trouble with AI aggression in this game so I wonder if OCC might work after all. If you have a start with some good production you could both research and spread the faith and still get to MM pretty quickly.
Around 900AD all my secondary religions suddenly leaked out across the globe and within 15-20 turns at least 4 opponents had converted, were now no longer friends with me and had the cursed -4 'you traded with our worst enemies'. They then closed borders so I couldn't reconvert them to the true way - which in this case was confuscianism. After that, any attempts to bring them back in to the fold caused -4 trading problems with my other friends. In short, the whole thing went to pieces.... By the time the vote came along EVERY opponent had the -4 'you traded with our worst enemies'! Shaka won the vote
I still think this plan could work, you just need to send out the missionaries asap. For this reason I am thinking of going with hinduism from the get-go.
I had no trouble with AI aggression in this game so I wonder if OCC might work after all. If you have a start with some good production you could both research and spread the faith and still get to MM pretty quickly.
Darkness
Shadow creature
I have the same problem....
Backdoor takes a long time to play. I'm not sure I'll make the deadline...
It is a fun game though.
Darkness
Shadow creature
So far 1700 AD is the fastest large map, normal speed diplomatic win in the HOF. That may be beaten with this gauntlet, but I'm not seeing any pre-1000 AD possibilities here...
azzaman333
meh
Highlands maps are like playing mapsizes 1 size larger. Theres just so much room.
CliftonBazaar
Prince
Ummm ... maybe I'll regenerate this map
Gosha190
King
It is an extremely rarely position for a highlands map- you are very lucky guy!
try yourself in a lottery!
Las Vegas is waiting for you!)))
try yourself in a lottery!
Las Vegas is waiting for you!)))
CliftonBazaar
Prince
Well, I regenerated the map and played. I discovered Budhism and tried to spread it around, but my neighbor got Hindu so I was ready for trouble.
Midway through the game I noticed that Hindu hadn't spread, finally I traded maps to see who had what and I saw this, no wonder Hinduism wasn't spreading -
Midway through the game I noticed that Hindu hadn't spread, finally I traded maps to see who had what and I saw this, no wonder Hinduism wasn't spreading -
CliftonBazaar
Prince
I suppose I should give a write up of how I accomplished this
I played this map about 12 times with a variety of methods.
First I tried Military but Highland maps are very defensive orientated as nearly every city is built on a hill
Then you get the 'You declared war on my friend' negatives.
Then I tried to be nice to everyone; but sooner or later everyone gets mad at everyone and differant religions don't help.
I then voted on 'Free religion' but by that time all the negative bonuses had accrued and there was no way of getting rid of them
My third method was to get a religion and spread it. But if another civ discovered a new religion they would convert to it, no matter how many cities they had of your religion.
So I tried to get all the Religions while only spreading the first one I got (Budhism).
I did found Budhism but didn't get Hinduism; I was tempted to give up there and then but I kept going. If you have a look at the screen shot 2 posts above you will see that the Egyptions got Hinduism but couldn't spread it as they were on an island. 2 posts above that I posted a screen shot where I started on an island! I did regenerate that map
So I madly used my Capital to teach Budhism monks and spread my religion. On the screen shot 2 posts above you can see that I converted everyone to Budhims except Stalin (the monk was on it's way). Another curious thing to note is that I only coverted the capital to Budhism and they stayed that way for the whole game; when you can only have 3 monks at a time you cannot convert every city - you just need to convert enough cities in order to make the civ change.
I did end up with 3 religions and Wang Kon got another 2; everyone converted to the religion they founded.
Meanwhile I did push on to the UN; built it with an Engineer and won the vote!
EDIT: I see the other scores were higher than me suggesting that they had more cities - so it looks like everyone else had 'military' victories in order to get the votes.
I played this map about 12 times with a variety of methods.
First I tried Military but Highland maps are very defensive orientated as nearly every city is built on a hill
Then you get the 'You declared war on my friend' negatives.Then I tried to be nice to everyone; but sooner or later everyone gets mad at everyone and differant religions don't help.
I then voted on 'Free religion' but by that time all the negative bonuses had accrued and there was no way of getting rid of them
My third method was to get a religion and spread it. But if another civ discovered a new religion they would convert to it, no matter how many cities they had of your religion.
So I tried to get all the Religions while only spreading the first one I got (Budhism).
I did found Budhism but didn't get Hinduism; I was tempted to give up there and then but I kept going. If you have a look at the screen shot 2 posts above you will see that the Egyptions got Hinduism but couldn't spread it as they were on an island. 2 posts above that I posted a screen shot where I started on an island! I did regenerate that map
So I madly used my Capital to teach Budhism monks and spread my religion. On the screen shot 2 posts above you can see that I converted everyone to Budhims except Stalin (the monk was on it's way). Another curious thing to note is that I only coverted the capital to Budhism and they stayed that way for the whole game; when you can only have 3 monks at a time you cannot convert every city - you just need to convert enough cities in order to make the civ change.
I did end up with 3 religions and Wang Kon got another 2; everyone converted to the religion they founded.
Meanwhile I did push on to the UN; built it with an Engineer and won the vote!
EDIT: I see the other scores were higher than me suggesting that they had more cities - so it looks like everyone else had 'military' victories in order to get the votes.
Misotu
King
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2006
- Messages
- 934
My experience was slightly different. The game I submitted was my second attempt, and I did play at least half a dozen more games to see if I could improve, but I didn't.
I didn't have a "military" victory - given the map conditions, it was a non-starter (for someone as poor at military tactics as I am, at least!)
Founding all the religions just took too much research resource away from the techs I really wanted - and was a disaster. When it came to the election, I was up against a candidate with the same religion, usually Mehmed. Hannibal, Brennus, Ragnar and Stalin would promptly vote for the opposition EVEN THOUGH I was +17 and the other guy only +11 to +14 with them. WHY??? WHY???
If anyone can explain this, I'd be grateful. Maybe because I was #1 on the score graph? It didn't seem to relate to position on the map (ie close borders, or wanting to placate a powerful neighbour).
In one game I was sure I'd hit 1700ish - but Shaka, my best buddy and +17, suddenly declared war (probably because he was trapped in a corner and my territory was boxing him in for around two-thirds of his border). I'd stupidly got confident and hadn't kept building military. By the time I'd halted his invasion he had grabbed three of my twenty cities and of course was voting for the opposion with my votes
So in the end, my strategy was: buddhism just takes too much effort away from early worker techs and doesn't lie on my beeline. Found polytheism, monotheism, code of laws and theology. Leave the two later ones to be founded - hopefully - by the best opposing civ. Build stonehenge and the oracle in one city straight off if poss to get very early prophet, build a shrine. Get workers to build roads to good rivers as soon as the shrine is built and watch my religion spread. Constantly have three missionaries going out. Build a strong economy, expand as much as possible, beeline MM and biology. Farm and windmill everything, grow each city as fast as possible, and try to account for a third or more of the votes, so only relying on a few of the civs to vote for me. Support the strongest opponent as much as possible without annoying my friends.
So ... a combination of growth, religion and fostering an opponent. I was intrigued by the possibility of giving away the UN, but never had a game where it was possible and I was never absolutely certain that I had the largest pop all the time. Giving tech help for the relationship bonuses unfortunately means that the AI is expanding rather well ...
Converting their capitals, in my games, was absolutely no guarantee that they wouldn't convert to another religion later so I had to keep the missionaries going.
I came to the conclusion that "poor" maps - ie lots of hills and short on grassland/flood plains/food resources - are much better for the human player and more likely to produce a result. I also found that many maps were poor on resources - particularly those available with calendar. In fact, in one game there was only a single incense square and no other resources requiring calendar anywhere else on the entire map. This was a huge handicap - you need the relationship bonus for resource supply which means you need to start handing out resources as early as possible. But everyone had the same resources ...
I found this game hard to win, but interesting to play. I learned a lot about diplomatic victories But if anyone can explain why the AI votes for a civ it likes less than me, that would be very handy!
I didn't have a "military" victory - given the map conditions, it was a non-starter (for someone as poor at military tactics as I am, at least!)
Founding all the religions just took too much research resource away from the techs I really wanted - and was a disaster. When it came to the election, I was up against a candidate with the same religion, usually Mehmed. Hannibal, Brennus, Ragnar and Stalin would promptly vote for the opposition EVEN THOUGH I was +17 and the other guy only +11 to +14 with them. WHY??? WHY???
If anyone can explain this, I'd be grateful. Maybe because I was #1 on the score graph? It didn't seem to relate to position on the map (ie close borders, or wanting to placate a powerful neighbour).In one game I was sure I'd hit 1700ish - but Shaka, my best buddy and +17, suddenly declared war (probably because he was trapped in a corner and my territory was boxing him in for around two-thirds of his border). I'd stupidly got confident and hadn't kept building military. By the time I'd halted his invasion he had grabbed three of my twenty cities and of course was voting for the opposion with my votes
So in the end, my strategy was: buddhism just takes too much effort away from early worker techs and doesn't lie on my beeline. Found polytheism, monotheism, code of laws and theology. Leave the two later ones to be founded - hopefully - by the best opposing civ. Build stonehenge and the oracle in one city straight off if poss to get very early prophet, build a shrine. Get workers to build roads to good rivers as soon as the shrine is built and watch my religion spread. Constantly have three missionaries going out. Build a strong economy, expand as much as possible, beeline MM and biology. Farm and windmill everything, grow each city as fast as possible, and try to account for a third or more of the votes, so only relying on a few of the civs to vote for me. Support the strongest opponent as much as possible without annoying my friends.
So ... a combination of growth, religion and fostering an opponent. I was intrigued by the possibility of giving away the UN, but never had a game where it was possible and I was never absolutely certain that I had the largest pop all the time. Giving tech help for the relationship bonuses unfortunately means that the AI is expanding rather well ...
Converting their capitals, in my games, was absolutely no guarantee that they wouldn't convert to another religion later so I had to keep the missionaries going.
I came to the conclusion that "poor" maps - ie lots of hills and short on grassland/flood plains/food resources - are much better for the human player and more likely to produce a result. I also found that many maps were poor on resources - particularly those available with calendar. In fact, in one game there was only a single incense square and no other resources requiring calendar anywhere else on the entire map. This was a huge handicap - you need the relationship bonus for resource supply which means you need to start handing out resources as early as possible. But everyone had the same resources ...
I found this game hard to win, but interesting to play. I learned a lot about diplomatic victories
But if anyone can explain why the AI votes for a civ it likes less than me, that would be very handy!I played only once with no testgames, lacking time and submitting only a few hours before deadline. (Airny G-Minor16-1)
I had a very nice position giving me approx. a fifth of the map for myself! I played with "seas" and few, scattered mountains.
So it all went very good till 1550:
Capital Tokio with 2gold, 3 food:
1550AD G-Minor 16 has completed The United Nations!
After that I wasted 200 years building up my empire for more population, making diplomacy and trying to win peacefully. My first plan was to get everyone attacking Brennus, who decided to attack me, and getting the votes with help of "military struggle bonus", it gave me a nice bonus and Brennus soon was history, but it didn't work out in votes.
Things changed when Stalin decided to attack me:
1720 AD Stalin has declared war on you!
I built a large army and took most of his cities. When I was able to make him a vassal I did (getting his votes anyway, war would just reduce the population). I still didn't have enough votes with 4 people now voting for me!
I then collected and reinforced my army (bombers+tanks were the key) to reduce Shaka's (my opponent in votes) pop and increase mine.
military advisor:
technology advisor (1880AD as usual):
victory conditions:
info screen (crop yield):
I once had 1063 of 1066 required votes, which fits well in this neverending run. I was very surprised to see the others being as slow as me.
I still think much faster victories were possible.
I had a very nice position giving me approx. a fifth of the map for myself! I played with "seas" and few, scattered mountains.
So it all went very good till 1550:
Capital Tokio with 2gold, 3 food:
Spoiler :
1550AD G-Minor 16 has completed The United Nations!
After that I wasted 200 years building up my empire for more population, making diplomacy and trying to win peacefully. My first plan was to get everyone attacking Brennus, who decided to attack me, and getting the votes with help of "military struggle bonus", it gave me a nice bonus and Brennus soon was history, but it didn't work out in votes.
Things changed when Stalin decided to attack me:
1720 AD Stalin has declared war on you!
I built a large army and took most of his cities. When I was able to make him a vassal I did (getting his votes anyway, war would just reduce the population). I still didn't have enough votes with 4 people now voting for me!
I then collected and reinforced my army (bombers+tanks were the key) to reduce Shaka's (my opponent in votes) pop and increase mine.
military advisor:
Spoiler :
technology advisor (1880AD as usual):
Spoiler :
victory conditions:
Spoiler :
info screen (crop yield):
Spoiler :
I once had 1063 of 1066 required votes, which fits well in this neverending run. I was very surprised to see the others being as slow as me.
I still think much faster victories were possible.
CliftonBazaar
Prince
Faster victories may have been possible but not 'much faster'. Highlands map slows military (because of both size and city defence from hills) and our opponenents were war mongers who only really respect military power - and it was hard to get those votes.
Everyone being differant religions was difficult and missionarys were hard to send out (big map).
Looking at these descriptions I think I was the last to build the UN as my theory was to get everyone on side and then build it. Whereas others have built the UN and then worked on diplomacy.
Similar threads
