G-Minor CLXXII

[aafritz17]

While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

Settings:

• Expansion: Brave New World
• Victory Condition: Culture (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Prince
• Map Size: Huge
• Map Type: Inland Sea
• Speed: Standard
• Leader: Morocco (Ahmad al-Mansur)
• Opponents: Any
• Version: SV8
• Date: 1st to 31st December 2019

The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

 

[zenmaster]

Hope everyone is having a great holiday season.

Been so busy, but things have slowed down enough to get a game of this in. On this map, Morocco is free to pursue Desert Folklore in veritable oceans of sand. Happy gaming!

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

 

[Nizef]

The holiday season is indeed great. However, it does not always translate into good games. I submitted my first try with this setup but it took me until t270 to actually win it. I had a bad plan and executed it even worse. Little did it help that my neighbours were Shaka and Gustav, while the cultural AIs were on the other side of the map (Siam, the Netherlands, Songhai and Portugal). I am mostly glad that it is over! I wish that all of you will have better games!

 

[zenmaster]

The holiday season is indeed great. However, it does not always translate into good games. I submitted my first try with this setup but it took me until t270 to actually win it. I had a bad plan and executed it even worse. Little did it help that my neighbours were Shaka and Gustav, while the cultural AIs were on the other side of the map (Siam, the Netherlands, Songhai and Portugal). I am mostly glad that it is over! I wish that all of you will have better games!

Oh, my. Not a good setup at all. Shaka next door on Prince can be troublesome if you have nonconquest agendas. Just curious, what was your plan? A huge Inland Sea map just begs for a Sacred Sites cultural win. Was that your plan going in?

With Morocco, don't disable Start Bias and you should have plenty of desert to produce faith. Inland Sea means your religion can spread to neighbors quickly, and huge map leaves lots of huts for early civ advancement.

Hope your other games this month have fared better!

 

[Nizef]

Oh, my. Not a good setup at all. Shaka next door on Prince can be troublesome if you have nonconquest agendas. Just curious, what was your plan? A huge Inland Sea map just begs for a Sacred Sites cultural win. Was that your plan going in?

Hope your other games this month have fared better!

Yes, I went for Sacred Sites (opening Tradition then full Piety) and got it. My religion was massive (Gustav could barely hold his own religion in his capital) and I had some 160-170 fpt. But.. after some 13-15 cities I was out of room to expand peacefully (and that was my basic strategy) and most of my cities were small Sacred Sites cities (pop2-3) and much to my surprise I was sliding behind in science and techs while Portugals culture was big enough not to end the game around t150-170. So I had to get Acoustics for the Musician Guilds and with my low science output it took a while. Basically my biggest mistake was that I didn¨t develop my empire early enough and altough my capital was decent it was by no means good enough to carry the whole empire. Anyway, it was a good lesson learned.

About my other games. Well, it is of course luxury problems to have in life to complain about games. But yeah, two of my entries on my road to VVV were particularly fun. Both have been published under Enjoyable Deity Games (EDGE #39 and #40). They were a CV with Greece (Fractal/Epic/Deity) on t444 (decent with my standard) and a mostly warlike SV with Carthage (also Fractal/Epic/Deity) on t432.

 

[zenmaster]

Yes, I went for Sacred Sites (opening Tradition then full Piety) and got it. My religion was massive (Gustav could barely hold his own religion in his capital) and I had some 160-170 fpt. But.. after some 13-15 cities I was out of room to expand peacefully (and that was my basic strategy) and most of my cities were small Sacred Sites cities (pop2-3) and much to my surprise I was sliding behind in science and techs while Portugals culture was big enough not to end the game around t150-170. So I had to get Acoustics for the Musician Guilds and with my low science output it took a while. Basically my biggest mistake was that I didn¨t develop my empire early enough and altough my capital was decent it was by no means good enough to carry the whole empire. Anyway, it was a good lesson learned.

About my other games. Well, it is of course luxury problems to have in life to complain about games. But yeah, two of my entries on my road to VVV were particularly fun. Both have been published under Enjoyable Deity Games (EDGE #39 and #40). They were a CV with Greece (Fractal/Epic/Deity) on t444 (decent with my standard) and a mostly warlike SV with Carthage (also Fractal/Epic/Deity) on t432.

Ah yes, sometimes the Sacred Sites are not enough to overcome the culture juggernauts. Maria of Portugal can absolutely steamroll some games, at any level. A lot of times, Portugal struggles, but once in awhile Maria puts together a barnburning civilization that no foes can stand against.

The other games sound fun. I just saw your EDGE thread over in the other forum section. Very neat idea!

 

[aafritz17]

There are not a lot of entries for either of this month's gauntlets. I know how busy this time of year can get (I haven't actually tried either of these games, but I DID have a great time with 5 additional adults and 9 additional grandkids in the house for most of 5 days!!)

Whaddayathink? Should I extend both of these to the end of January, or should we just get on to some new ones?

 

[Nizef]

Since I misjudged my Morocco game, it would be nice to see you guys do better with this setup. On the other hand I will probably not try the China game, because I have my mind set on playing China on Deity for my own VVV. Either way is absolutely fine, but maybe an extension is the way to go here. Happy New Year!

 

[zenmaster]

Hope everyone is having a good 2020!

On this gauntlet I had an ocean of sand, like the Sahara, with desert at least 8 hexes around the capital and then all the way south to the sea.

Desert Folklore enabled a Sacred Sites victory in the T120s without any religious wonders. Inland Sea is such a great map for any type of victory condition!

As an aside, January's minor gauntlet looks more like a major to me - large map domination at King level? That will not be a fast game.

I know there is no formal difference between a major and a minor, but making the minor a 4 or lower difficulty level, or if a higher difficulty then a tiny/small map and/or quick speed, might help with easy entry. Both gauntlets being intense weakens my will to Dominate a Large King map . Perhaps I will be a peacenik this month . The Immortal Science major is right up my alley though!

 

[billybgame]

Did this get extended then? I might give it a go, if so.....

 

[zenmaster]

Did this get extended then? I might give it a go, if so.....

I don't think so because the new January gauntlets are up on the Hall of Fame site in the Gauntlet tab.

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ5/gauntlet.php

 

[aafritz17]

Did this get extended then? I might give it a go, if so.....

I have processed all the games submitted so far, but I don't think @Ozbenno has done the update yet. If you go ahead and play it, I'll check for more entries over the weekend (probably a couple of times). Depending on how quick you get it in, maybe it'll make the gauntlet. Even if it doesn't, it would still be on the HOF table.

 

[aafritz17]

...As an aside, January's minor gauntlet looks more like a major to me - large map domination at King level? That will not be a fast game.

I know there is no formal difference between a major and a minor, but making the minor a 4 or lower difficulty level, or if a higher difficulty then a tiny/small map and/or quick speed, might help with easy entry. Both gauntlets being intense weakens my will to Dominate a Large King map . Perhaps I will be a peacenik this month . The Immortal Science major is right up my alley though!

I think when I was scratching some notes for this, looking at existing tables, yada yada yada, I did have this at Prince. But I've been frustrated in some of my own games lately with AI who have no cash, no workers to steal, only 1 IMPROVED copy of a lux. So I suspect that King is a slight expression of my inner rage..............

 

[zenmaster]

I think when I was scratching some notes for this, looking at existing tables, yada yada yada, I did have this at Prince. But I've been frustrated in some of my own games lately with AI who have no cash, no workers to steal, only 1 IMPROVED copy of a lux. So I suspect that King is a slight expression of my inner rage..............

Completely understandable
Cannot depend on low level opponents for anything. Anything you can take or barter for is a bonus!

Any word on an update?

As it is the middle of the month already, you may want to consider rolling over the January gauntlets into February. The January gauntlets will be largely ghosts otherwise.

If someone has the power to get the new gauntlet threads up at least, that could help keep us on schedule.

 

[aafritz17]

Any word on an update?

As it is the middle of the month already, you may want to consider rolling over the January gauntlets into February. The January gauntlets will be largely ghosts otherwise.

If someone has the power to get the new gauntlet threads up at least, that could help keep us on schedule.

Just heard from Ozbenno, he's been working on a remote site. He said he would do the update "this week", so I would say there is probably still a couple days for submitting a December gauntlet.

I also asked him about letting the December gauntlets to continue. I'm not sure how things work, but I would THINK 4 gauntlets could be going at once. I'll see what he says.

Do you think we should be making the major a longer one by default? Didn't it used to be 4-6 weeks for the major, 2-4 for the minor?

 

[zenmaster]

I don't think extending the December gauntlets makes much sense, but the January gauntlets should probably become Jan/Feb gauntlets.

There was a time when majors were 2 months and minors were 1 month.

That would be fine, allowing high level, marathon, time victory, or any civ gauntlets to be majors with enough time to allow people to finish!

 

[Nizef]

I am indifferent to the 1-2 month issue. If the setup is something I like I will usually find the time for it. However, I understand the idea behind giving the Major a longer time span.

 

[aafritz17]

The next HOF update will be after 1/31/2020. This means all 4 gauntlets are open - two from January as normal, plus the two December ones have not yet been closed. I will change the dates in the HOF look-up to reflect 1/31/2020 for all gauntlets.

Also, I see the threads for the January gauntlets have been moved into this thread, but not up in the sticky area. I will see if I can get that fixed (I personally am not authorized to do that).

I am pro-longer on the Major. How about a suggestion or two regarding the Feb/March G-Major CIII?

 

[zenmaster]

The next HOF update will be after 1/31/2020. This means all 4 gauntlets are open - two from January as normal, plus the two December ones have not yet been closed. I will change the dates in the HOF look-up to reflect 1/31/2020 for all gauntlets.

Also, I see the threads for the January gauntlets have been moved into this thread, but not up in the sticky area. I will see if I can get that fixed (I personally am not authorized to do that).

I am pro-longer on the Major. How about a suggestion or two regarding the Feb/March G-Major CIII?

Sounds great!

For the major, mirroring the excellent any civ domination challenge forced to face the good domination civs,

How about an any civ science challenge where required opponents are

Korea, Babylon, Spain, Mayans, Shoshone, Siam, (China or Incas)

If larger map (or if using a more terrain specific standard size map, remove China/Siam if need be) require as opponent whatever civ is helped most by map used
If any kind of islands, make Polynesia a required opponent
If Rainforest, Brazil, Aztecs
If Lakes, Aztec
If forested map, Iroquois, Celts
If can be hill heavy, Incas...

Preferably a map type not overused and some level above warlord

This will make people look to explore different science strategies for non-science-advantaged civs.

That is my suggestion for a future major.

 

[Nizef]

Sounds great!

For the major, mirroring the excellent any civ domination challenge forced to face the good domination civs,

How about an any civ science challenge where required opponents are

Korea, Babylon, Spain, Mayans, Shoshone, Siam, (China or Incas)

If larger map (or if using a more terrain specific standard size map, remove China/Siam if need be) require as opponent whatever civ is helped most by map used
If any kind of islands, make Polynesia a required opponent
If Rainforest, Brazil, Aztecs
If Lakes, Aztec
If forested map, Iroquois, Celts
If can be hill heavy, Incas...

Preferably a map type not overused and some level above warlord

This will make people look to explore different science strategies for non-science-advantaged civs.

That is my suggestion for a future major.

I am all for the kind of ideas zenmaster suggests. As an example, after having tried the CV with Venice on Prince/Tiny Islands, I tried the same settings with Shaka and restricted myself to one self founded city. I actually finished the CV faster (t170 vs t192) with Shaka than with Enrico even if the starting location was worse, albeit including some naval warmongering (Moson Kahni was just awesome). Maybe there could be self-imposed limitations (have to take certain policies) or a requirement to achieve something (build a certain wonder or found a religion)? Or am I altering the spirit of the Gauntlets too much?