G-Minor III

[vexing]

The game has been deleted from my system. Going back to Civ IV.

interesting

 

[Tabarnak]

Well, I don't know what patience or luck you're all talking about - I'm sure I'll be not far than 5 turns from the gold without any.

Persia's and Japan's strat are indeed very good to reduce luck factors. Persia is slightly better, but Japan is i think the winner on a suited map. Can Persia drop finish date under 75 turns? I've not played this civ yet(don't know if i will try this gauntlet again) but from my games played i'm sure that Japan can do below 75 turns if he can send a 2nd army before turn 40 and not facing a lot of mountains, barbs and forests.

The problem is if you want to skip 10 turns for 1 or 2 extra attacker, you need to settle on a happy mine, where rerolling maps is needed. Some maps have these mines, but city can still be on a bad spot.

Ok for being 5 turns close to gold without any reroll, but the goal isn't to be in 1st place?

I really hate losing my time at rerolling maps. I think this is my main problem. I prefer GOTM because of that. Should be GOTD(game of the day) or GOTW(game of the week) lol

 

[vexing]

with double culture ruin china is better than japan.

 

[Tabarnak]

with double culture ruin china is better than japan.

Injured japanese warriors can do more damage to cities than injured chinese warriors with a GG.

 

[vexing]

Injured japanese warriors can do more damage to cities than injured chinese warriors with a GG.

nope. you lose about 5% combat strength with each point of damage the unit has taken. at and above 5 health you have more strength as china + gg.
add in that you're using healing promotions with both to get to full health and greater damage done (and less taken) at full health with china and china is a clear winner. 3 warriors + scout + gg can easily take first city in 2 attack rounds.

 

[Tabarnak]

nope. you lose about 5% combat strength with each point of damage the unit has taken. at and above 5 health you have more strength as china + gg.
add in that you're using healing promotions with both to get to full health and greater damage done (and less taken) at full health with china and china is a clear winner. 3 warriors + scout + gg can easily take first city in 2 attack rounds.

You need to burn more insta-heals with China using this tactic. Yeah i took cities with 3 warriors and a scout + GG in some tries with China and it works well. But later on it's much difficult. The good thing with Japs is you can gather insta-heals until the end and get a blitz for last civs. If we compare for long term run they are probably equal. But you raised the main point already...double culture ruin luck factor =

 

[vexing]

You need to burn more insta-heals with China using this tactic. Yeah i took cities with 3 warriors and a scout + GG in some tries with China and it works well. But later on it's much difficult. The good thing with Japs is you can gather insta-heals until the end and get a blitz for last civs.

?? i'm not using more instant heals with china. first attack leaves warriors above 50% hp, second attack takes city with no heals used.

 

[Max M.]

Japan can do below 75 turns if he can send a 2nd army before turn 40 and not facing a lot of mountains, barbs and forests.

I doubt any civ except Persia can go below 75... there's always something on the way for either army to stuck...

The problem is if you want to skip 10 turns for 1 or 2 extra attacker, you need to settle on a happy mine, where rerolling maps is needed. Some maps have these mines, but city can still be on a bad spot.

Ok for being 5 turns close to gold without any reroll, but the goal isn't to be in 1st place?

Sure, I do reroll for a mining luxury - but it's not those 50 rerolls until you hit 2 culture ruins and/or get a legendary set of luxuries/whatever on the spot (Typically I'm fine to accept the only silver even w/o any river, 3f and more hill tiles nearby. And I often move my settler for 2-3 turns to get there.. so...).

And although of course I'm hoping to get some medal, I can't imagine myself rerolling for El-Dorado and hut->mining/bronzeworking down to the point when it would kill the fun. So that's why the chain of surrender messages made me perplexed (especially assuming that the source of the surrender - 2 culture ruins - is not needed at all (of course I may be wrong and some other civ with 2 culture hits can do better than Iran... but... well - we'll see soon)).

 

[iggymnrr]

Sure, I do reroll for a mining luxury - but it's not those 50 rerolls until you hit 2 culture ruins and/or get a legendary set of luxuries/whatever on the spot (Typically I'm fine to accept the only silver even w/o any river, 3f and more hill tiles nearby. And I often move my settler for 2-3 turns to get there.. so...).

Persia can afford to do this. 1 culture ruin is a lot. Yeah, something is always in the way. Had one try where it wasn't rivers or mountains. Somebody spammed 4 cities. Is this the capitol? No. This one? No. Etc. Got the capitol at turn 70 with 1 civ left to go. Late. Oh well.

 

[Tabarnak]

?? i'm not using more instant heals with china. first attack leaves warriors above 50% hp, second attack takes city with no heals used.

I always have a warrior or 2 injured before attacking. City range attack for one, and high chances of an attack from an ennemy warrior wandering around. So i don't know when and where you can attack with full health units.

 

[vexing]

i did some testing with china warriors vs 9 strength cities, over rivers and not, at various hps. i learned that unit hp has no affect on dmg taken in offense (so japan's subsequent attack damage taken isn't reduced).
here are some numbers

damage taken breakdowns

without gg (74 samples)
2: 9%
3: 53%
4: 35%
5: 3%
mean: 3.3

without gg over river (66 samples)
3: 20%
4: 31%
5: 29%
6: 20%
mean: 4.5

with gg (211 samples)
2: 38%
3: 55%
4: 8%
mean: 2.7

with gg over river (99 samples)
2: 30%
3: 41%
4: 28%
mean: 3

damage dealt
i'm just going to post the means since the breakdowns are less important. sample sizes are 70ish / 35ish over river

base results (full hp, no gg - so what japan should do all the time)
4.2
over river: 3.3

results with chinese gg
full hp: 5.2
over river: 4.5

7hp: 4.5
over river: 4.3

4hp: 3.5
over river: 3.1


summary? any boost in combat strength is quite important from the offensive damage taken perspective; you can safely attack a 9hp city with a 5hp warrior over a river with a chinese gg, while there's a 20% chance a 6 hp warrior without gg will die.

with a chinese gg at full hp you gain 1 dmg dealt, .6 less taken.

extrapolating it looks like a 6hp chinese warrior with gg will deal about the same amount of dmg as a japanese warrior with no gg.

japan with gg should be slightly better than china with gg over river results, so i'd estimate maybe 4.6 dmg dealt, 2.9 taken

 

[iggymnrr]

I doubt any civ except Persia can go below 75... there's always something on the way for either army to stuck...

I've been attempting this with 3 armies taking out 4-2-1 targets. 1st army takes out 4 civs, 2nd takes out 2 civs, 3rd takes out 1 civ. I can get 2nd and 3rd armies poised for their last targets ~turn 73. 1st army is usually the one that runs into some snafu. Cleaner map would be nice. Usually only get 1 culture ruin. (On occasion build a monument.) A double GA about the time 1st and 2nd armies move on their last 2 targets is about ideal.

 

[vexing]

oh darius, why did i ever doubt you... and to think all the time i wasted trying to get alex to work.
had a near perfect perfect game with him. no culture ruin, no bronze ruin, but skilldorado so i was able to build monument without delaying military.
second and third civs i took also had second cities, so i was able to avoid warmonger hate and get peace deals.

 

[Onan]

Just checking the forum time...I assume this is complete, just waiting on the results?

hmmn, or maybe not, maybe there's almost five hours left for submissions. Dunno if I'll squeeze another one in. Played my second game with Persia yesterday. Had to move three turns to settle on gems (first roll, no rerolls). One culture ruin, pretty good flat map. Turn 76.

If I don't manage another, quicker one, I'll be pretty pleased with this: halving my initial time.

With the right conditions (double culture ruin, etc.), I'd expect to see sub 65 without much trouble at all.

 

[DaveMcW]

I just got turn 67 with Darius.

Ruin luck wasn't that great, 2 pop and 1 culture. I wasted 6 turns of golden age at the end.

But the map was perfect.

1. 4 warrior rush and puppet.
2. 4 warrior rush and annex.
3. Buy immortals to replace my dead/max promoted warriors.
4. Use remaining production to immortal rush the civ in the top right corner.

 

[Crafty1]

Nice work Dave. You beat my T73 so congrats. Looks like you are using same strategy as I did and I know that my game could have been better. I also only had 1 culture ruin and I think the only unit upgrade I got was on a scout.

Peace deals helped a lot as this game was done when I thought trades b4 DoW were not allowed.


Looks like I will need to have "just one more game"

 

[Tabarnak]

Great job Dave. Incredible finish dates all. Brainstorming in this gauntlet forced players to try harder over days.

Fun settings. Pretty linear and short games.

 

[Onan]

Ditto, fun process, from beating our heads against the wall, to seeing the light. Glad I was on holiday for a week or I would've spent far too much time on this.

 

[Denniz]

Results:

G-Minor III - Domination, Prince, Standard Size, Inland Sea, Epic, any Leader

1st vexing 2350 BC - Turn 66

2nd DaveMcW 2325 BC - Turn 67

3rd Crafty1 2300 BC - Turn 68

Congratulations!

 

[Max M.]

woah... that was really dramatic last day battle...