G-Minor LXXI

[DST1348]

I played as Korea and finished on turn ~250. My starting position had no early resources like cattle or wheat and mostly Grassland. For some reason the only two Hill tiles had Silver and Gems, but the borderexpand-AI never chose to include them, so I had to buy the tiles when I ran out of Happiness. Then my neighbor England beat me on GL by one turn . Well, this meant war Amusingly, Monty was friendly with me the entire game because of my warmongering.

 

[Xger]

* I forgot that CS can't gift you coal until *they have Industrialization tech*. So, I was counting on having coal for factories and didn't. Ended up having to use a GG on my own CS ally to get the coal.

If the coal appears on an unimproved tile you can use the 200g for improving a resource to gain access to the coal.

 

[Cromagnus]

It was improved. I was just the only civ to hit industrialization by then I guess. The AI was very slow teching in that game.

 

[Xger]

It was improved. I was just the only civ to hit industrialization by then I guess. The AI was very slow teching in that game.

Ah. I often then search and hope some CS did the wrong improvement on coal.

 

[Cromagnus]

Just for those who might not know. Floating Gardens is +15% to base food. So you can end up with something like this:

Spoiler :

I had to abandon this run because I spawned on an island by myself with nowhere NEAR enough unique resources for a capital running +20 food surplus. But man, sure would have been sweet. Good spots for Floating Gardens are like finding Natural Wonders with Spain.

 

[dinanipedro]

a super high pop cap doesn't really make as big of a difference for this one, with tradition and korea my cap was over 50 pop still didn't get more of an advantage than with liberty attempt where my cap was mid 20's.

timing oracle for specialist's is crucial though as there's not enough time to waist policies

spain is just crazy OP, found grand mesa t1 - worker purchase on t1

i'm still thinking about a korea mountain reroll though

 

[Xger]

a super high pop cap doesn't really make as big of a difference for this one, with tradition and korea my cap was over 50 pop still didn't get more of an advantage than with liberty attempt where my cap was mid 20's.

timing oracle for specialist's is crucial though as there's not enough time to waist policies

spain is just crazy OP, found grand mesa t1 - worker purchase on t1

i'm still thinking about a korea mountain reroll though

It can make a fairly decent difference in building any parts or rushing them with an engineer.

 

[klaskeren]

aw yeeh

 

[HolyHandGrenade]

aw yeeh

Aaah the master again . I bow down before your amazing finish. Perhaps you could give us more insight.

- How often have you rerolled to get this amazing start?
- Where are your military units?
- Where do you got alu from?

Thx in advance

 

[Memoryjar]

I suppose, the difference is the game breaker : Petra.

There's a fourth city on left behind Morrocco. I suppose his late 4th, provide alu or CS, or AI. CSseems to have access to alu as soon as you reach electricity. Unfortunately, it's not the same with coal.

You don't need units once you have city-strength around T40-50. And on only infantry put you on 3 or 4th place in demographics.

 

[Patrick Dark]

I just ran Korea and got the game down to turn 193, a 6-turn improvement over my Rome game, but 33 turns behind klaskeren.

https://patrick.dark.name/screenshots/civilization.v/g-minor.lxxi.screenshot-korea.1.turn.1.jpeg
https://patrick.dark.name/screensho...lxxi.screenshot-korea.1.turn.193.victory.jpeg

Went Interfaith Dialogue again, but decided to only spam large cities with missionaries instead of any city nearby. Also used Swords to Plowshares for once though I lost a few turns on it when Japan decided to march on one of my cities. Then I lost some again again when I declared war on Carthage while forgetting about the ability; I was more worried about an allied Germany turning against me if I declined to war since I was milking him for research agreements.

I didn't build Petra or caravans this game. Guess I need to focus on those more. Also got the World Congress late and decided it was too risky to go for Sciences Funding on the first round since two civilizations (including an ally) were against it. Then the World's Fair resolution I had picked failed after I was forced to used my two votes against Arts Funding.

timing oracle for specialist's is crucial though as there's not enough time to waist policies

Oracle is two eras behind the availability of Rationalism and Secularism is the second item in the tree. Seems risky to wait that long to build it since an AI might get it.

Aaah the master again . I bow down before your amazing finish. Perhaps you could give us more insight.

I'd be more interested to know which policies, techs, religious beliefs, and ideology were taken and in which order. I guess we'll see at least some of it when the saves are released.

Then there's also the question of how many techs were gained from the AI through research agreements and espionage. I haven't been able to get research agreements with more than two civs yet.

I'm also curious how early he went for printing press. If you get that early and get sciences funding to pass on the first round, that would provide a huge advantage.

I suppose, the difference is the game breaker : Petra.

Well, he also has 19 hills in range of the capital with optimal conditions:

• 5 hills adjacent to the river that get bonuses from Petra because being hills means they're not flood plains.
• 12 hills with faith bonuses from Desert Folklore.
• 2 hills with production bonuses from iron.
• 5 hills with production with bonuses from a hydro plant.
• Every luxury and strategic resource is located on a hill maximizing the effect of early citizens. It's stupid when you get things like cotton or sugar because you get no production while you have a citizen working it.

It's possible more production was had through forest and jungle as well.

I'm a bit surprised you can reach turn 160 without any Marble in any city though.

 

[Cromagnus]

I think a lot of it had to do with his expos being coastal. Look how big they are. Mountain petra capital is 2nd best possible start. I think the best is mountain petra *coastal inlet* capital. (IE minimal ocean tiles but still allowing cargo ships to the capital)

Of course, Petra is undoubtedly part of the equation. It's OP game-changing, as is DF. The sheer amount of faith, growth, and production you can get from DF/Petra combo is sick, because you can actually afford to work all those mines with the +1 food. Hanging Gardens is +6 food. A good Petra is +14 food + 14 production and an extra trade route, which by itself is game-changing.

 

[Memoryjar]

Yep, free caravans help a lot. He had also Colossus. If a caravan is strong, a free cargo ship is very powerful.
My best try with Korea is T180 - 182 (I don't remember). So, Klaskeren showed the gap.

I wonder too about RA's. I use to skip them below Immortal. Is, on king, classical/renaissance RA's useful ?

 

[klaskeren]

I lost 5-8 turns in the end game, my SP were:

(lets see if i can remember ) Trad opener -> liberty opener -> +1 prod -> free settler -> legalism -> monarchy -> landed elite -> aristocrachy -> oligarchy -> rationalism opener -> secularism -> humanism -> free thought -> order -> +2 monument happy -> 33% gold discout on buildings -> 25% science from factory -> 25% GP generation -> mine and city production -> +1 gold from science buildings -> 1 GE 1 GS from order -> +50% from RA -> Free worker liberty -> golden age liberty -> +1 happy from trade routes.

NC was late, around turn 63 i think, needed units and other things out fast for CS ally, happiness for growth.

worker stealing: i had 3-4 workers early in the game to build mines for production for when collective rules kicked in, allowing me settlers in 2-3 turns. I got 4 cities total early game, first expo with mountain coast, second west of morocco, third northwest of second city. Settled a fifth on ghandis borders for aluminium lategame.

Religion was DF, tithe, pagodas, +15% growth, 30% further spread

Teching was philo -> currency -> education -> astro -> printing press -> scien theory -> plastics -> sattelites -> robotics.

Wonders were: (dno exact order) pyramids, Petra, Collosus, sistine, Chicken pizza, porcelain tower, hanging hardens, space telescope, kremlin, kristo redentor, globe theatre, notre dame (maybe some others)

specialist strategy: work science specialists at all times, work all specialists when secularism, else none.

i screwed up my bulbing because i forgot you need 5 different parts and not just 4, and i had too much science lategame, i should have popped earlier and begun work on hubble faster, also it was a mistake to rush collosus early game i think, better save for later use. Happiness was tight all game, as i had pretty big growth, notre dame helped very much

was quite pleased with my plastics result, turn 127 - 1345 beakers/turn

Attached screenshots of some times, first after astro, second shortly after schools, third plastics.

edit: and pyramids of course!

 

[Xger]

Oracle is two eras behind the availability of Rationalism and Secularism is the second item in the tree. Seems risky to wait that long to build it since an AI might get it.

On King, if you don't have any wonder happy opponents, it's pretty easy to get Oracle to finish as you enter the Renaissanse. It is also helpful to time your policy tick over as soon as the transition as possible. If you have Great Writers I save them for then as well.

 

[Cromagnus]

I usually finish tradition way too early to go straight into rationalism. So I use oracle to get further into commerce, liberty or patronage if there are enough maritime CS. Think my last game I actually used oracle to finish tradition on t45.

Blah, I just had to abandon an islands-type map where I had labs stocked by t130. Satellites revealed that the only coal and aluminum to be found was either on CS islands that were too small to place expos 4 tiles from the CS, or inside enemy territory on other islands. And no one was even in the industrial when I got Satellites. So much for that... too bad, I was on a record pace (for me anyway) despite two of my cities being in tundra and having no observatories... that's how awesome cargo ships are. But islands suck.

Also, I'm surprised you went with Representation last... if I do Tradition/Liberty opening for SV, I leave the free settler for last. That way you benefit from all the other policies for the whole game. And that free settler comes in handy when you suddenly need uranium or aluminum later.

I can see going with the free settler early to get cities out faster, but then you're delaying all the other liberty and tradition bonuses for a long time...

 

[tommynt]

I can see going with the free settler early to get cities out faster, but then you're delaying all the other liberty and tradition bonuses for a long time...

seems like kleskeren actually was avle to read good strategies and adopt, while u arent.

 

[Cromagnus]

Why would you conclude that? Because his finish time was 15 turns faster with Petra/DF and coastal cities, when I had neither of those advantages? Therefore I "can't read good strategies and adopt"?

 

[KingMorgan]

Tommy is just happy that Kas uses the Trad/Lib mixing strat, since it proves tommys way is the best way.

There are more ways than one to skin a cat and t160 is not going to be the winning time.

 

[klaskeren]

Tommy is just happy that Kas uses the Trad/Lib mixing strat, since it proves tommys way is the best way.

There are more ways than one to skin a cat and t160 is not going to be the winning time.

what a nasty expression why would anyone skin cats