G-Minor XCII

Peets

Emperor
Hall of Fame Staff
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Jul 23, 2008
Messages
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While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

Settings:
  • Expansion: Brave New World
  • Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
  • Difficulty: Immortal
  • Map Size: Standard
  • Map Type: Boreal
  • Speed: Standard
  • Leader: Poland (Casimir III)
  • Opponents: Any
  • Version: SV8
  • Date: 1st to 16th January 2015
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
 
Have had a few test rolls on Boreal having not played this map type before. Is it just my poor luck or are luxuries really sparse on this map type? I'm not seeing four city sites so am thinking my next re-roll is for war almost right out of the gate.

Any strategy guidance out there?


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Have never played Boreal either I think. Or Caz on a domination game. I'll post as soon as I get anywhere, but I am guessing Liberty and early rush. We'll see. Early rushes on Immortal or Deity are unknown territory for me, and the UU comes too late with Caz. Will welcome advice too.
 
Well I have played a few maps 60 turns each or so. I have not been able to make early rushes work, nobody spawns close to me, and cannot really conquer cities as happiness and diplo hits are a huge issue.

So I am going to play a turtle game to Arty and tech lead, bribe as much as I can to get the guys to DoW some poor bastard or two while I play the good guy, denouncing and what not, and be the friendliest guy in the world, then finish everybody off. Submit that to benchmark and then go back and continue to play around with earlish rushes, based on liberty/pyramids/commerce, relying on CSs for happiness.
 
Well I have played a few maps 60 turns each or so. I have not been able to make early rushes work, nobody spawns close to me, and cannot really conquer cities as happiness and diplo hits are a huge issue.

So I am going to play a turtle game to Arty and tech lead...

Ditto. Just had my ... handed to me. Managed to get Assyria and Seoul but Marrakesh came out with muskets when I was on composites and China started marching a carpet of doom my way...

Re-roll number I don't know what for an arty turtle this time around just like you!
 
Haven't gotten into this one yet, but the three characteristics of Boreal maps to keep in mind.

1) As Bleidraner has found experientially, Boreal maps always place civs far apart in general.

2) No desert or grassland, so river hexes and plains are the most fertile tiles you can get basically. And don't count on a Petra start! [emoji2]

3) Small seas at best, so the usable map is larger than most standard maps.

My initial takes going into the gauntlet?

-- Any strategy involving taking AI caps quickly with an initial rush is likely hamstrung by distance, terrain, and difficulty level.

-- Given the terrain, I think that one has to redefine what a good city location is. You will need an expansion city or three at least to up your unit limit and expand your luxury/conquest footprint. Deer & of course salt rock in the Boreal forests.

-- I suspect all medalists will be ones who find a way to beg, borrow, or steal their way to Dance of the Aurora, in addition to playing a great game otherwise. Every edge helps at the higher levels.

-- Poland allows for some outside the box thinking when coming up with your initial strategy. Can get to Artillery much faster than usual on this map with TradLibRation etc. if you are going to turtle and play nice initially. Can go heavy for CS alliances with Patronage to offset happiness and growth issues from the map and level. Can dip into Piety to get Aurora and try to max help from religion, and of course Honor never hurts in a domination game. Now of course initial map conditions may dictate your above choices, but I'd still have one basic strategy in mind when picking AI opponents. (eg. If you are planning to lean on CSes for sure, don't pick high Diplo AI etc.)

-On higher levels going for domination, I generally avoid AI civs with good Unique Units; Having China in the mix for example means you will most likely be facing Cho-ko-nus. Why do that if you don't have to?

---------

That is what I have in mind going in. I will be doing a 2 or even 3 scout start to explore well as luxes AIs & CSes need to found quickly on this map I think to choose expansion spots, allies, & conquest paths. Luxes willing, get 2 to 3 expansion cities out ASAP and see how the AI landscape is looking. Then either try to unit rush and get a win before artillery is needed, snipe a couple AI caps early and turtle to tech better weapons, or turtle until artillery/aircraft.

Hope outlining my thoughts is a help to some, to get people thinking about this one if nothing else.

Haven't played many high level standard land domination games, so this should be fun!
 
Bleidraner, I saw on the HOF table that you medaled in a Persia King Boreal Diplomacy game. You may be the expert on this map!
 
Gonna be a learning experience for me as well, I don't think I've played high difficulty domination with a goal to get a very fast finish before. I suppose taking 2-3 caps with CBs and then upgrading to XBs to finish the rest is the way to go?

Gonna share my initial thoughts as well:

- AIs need to be slowed down, so I'll probably include an opponent like Attila and bribe him to attack as many AIs as possible (and hopefully not have him as a neighbour..)
- From what I remember Boreal is pretty lux starved, so Tradition might be a very good option especially if the capital has access to a lot of hills. Playing Poland only makes this better...
- Liberty can also be great not only because of the superworkers, but also Poland being able to finish it quickly for an early GS. Might not need National College to get a fast enough Machinery that way. I'll probably try this first.

edit: gonna get Machinery on t102ish in my current game with this approach, decent I guess? Not sure where I'll get the gold to upgrade though...
 
Bleidraner, I saw on the HOF table that you medaled in a Persia King Boreal Diplomacy game. You may be the expert on this map!
Yes it is all coming back to me in its awful glory. That was a diplo domination (kill everybody but 2), but at much lower level, where basically AIs just roll over and give you cities as soon as you DoW them. This is MUCH tougher.

Well did a CB rush, conquered a couple of AIs (Delhi and Lisbon). Huge map, as there is no sea. Civ far apart and with plenty of choke points in spite of 5 billion years map. Got Machinery in t115, tech lead by 130, but with 3 AIs running just behind. Conquered one more (Venice). But now the whole world has DoW me, and I am in a Central position, which makes me extremely vulnerable. I think I will give up on this, as Mongolia, Arabia and Morocco all have XBows and Musketmen, yes my cannons are coming online, but they are not great for defensive war and I just don't have enough units, and of course Haille has turtled behind 2 choke points and is running away all on his own, so even if I manage to defend against these other guys, it will take forever to get Haille. I also have money and happiness problems, so I think I will give up on this one, and not invite Ethiopia in my next try. :)

No luxes apart from the basic ones for each of the civ, so I think Patronage is essential. I went Trad opener (culture and borders), Honor opener (culture) and then Liberty (Pyramids, super workers with quick repair), then 3 in commerce until Renaissance. I may substitute the Honor and Tradition openers for Patronage. I think Liberty is essential for the tile repair and roads while attacking, so I will keep with that strategy.
 
Won my game on t158. Full Liberty into full Honor, 3 caps taken with CBs, rest with XBs. Having Attila distract everyone was crucial, I think.

Spoiler :
 
Won my game on t158. Full Liberty into full Honor, 3 caps taken with CBs, rest with XBs. Having Attila distract everyone was crucial, I think.

Spoiler :

Wow. Just wow. Amazing. I'll try for under t200 and I doubt I will be able to do it.
 
I don't need any of this for the VVV but I can't resist a high level domination game. After I finish this stupid Time game I unwisely decided to start. :p
 
Won my game on t158.



Spoiler :


You're killing me! Attila wouldn't take my money to go after anyone else even after we'd been at war with a common foe. Just about to take Gao when he landed a carpet at my door AND killed my scout about to take Gao. Rage quit that one and started anew - without Attila!


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Sorry it didn't work out for you - in my game he'd accept bribes of a lux or 8gpt per civ, so at some point he was at war with 4 or 5 civs. Very helpful to trim the unit numbers and raze the trash cities. I started on the left side of the map pretty far away from him though, he spawned in the middle.
 
Won my game on t158. Full Liberty into full Honor, 3 caps taken with CBs, rest with XBs. Having Attila distract everyone was crucial, I think.

Spoiler :
Great job! I'm working the same policy plan as Liberty is the only way to get fast expansion and an all important GP and Honor is by far most useful for domination after that. I have a salt start but I'm stuck way in a corner : (. Atilla thus far is resisting my overtures as well. We'll see how it shakes out in the end, but distances may be too far to get a good time. Nicely done!
 
Haven't gotten into this one yet, but the three characteristics of Boreal maps to keep in mind.

2) No desert or grassland, so river hexes and plains are the most fertile tiles you can get basically. And don't count on a Petra start! [emoji2]

No desert, and Petra not possible, but CSs will include Petra as a build quest....Just another simple bug that Firaxis refuses to fix.
 
Honor is really all you need for this map. Liberty helps but it's overkill. With the rearrangement of the policy trees Monarchy is less appealing, and Piety becomes viable. I'll probably play one pure Honor game and then try a pure Piety game.
 
Great job! I'm working the same policy plan as Liberty is the only way to get fast expansion and an all important GP and Honor is by far most useful for domination after that. I have a salt start but I'm stuck way in a corner : (. Atilla thus far is resisting my overtures as well. We'll see how it shakes out in the end, but distances may be too far to get a good time.

In that game Attila ended up occupying the chokepoint I needed to get to all the other AIs but one. Had to take him on. Endless waves of horse archers occupied so much of my time that I ended the try around T130 without having even broken through yet! Attila is a 2-edged sword. He can be invaluable help.... or a massive hindrance!

I have another game going better. Just got Machinery a bit late at T112 or so but have the western 3 civs conquered and need to move east to the others, with a road already heading there. Probably won't beat vadalaz' time (or Cromagnus's when he plays it ;), but it should be at least sub-200.
 
Honor is really all you need for this map. Liberty helps but it's overkill. With the rearrangement of the policy trees Monarchy is less appealing, and Piety becomes viable. I'll probably play one pure Honor game and then try a pure Piety game.

Are you taking most or all of the map with just composite bows then? The roadblock to Honor/Piety only would seem to be getting to Machinery in a reasonable time. Just curious how you'd play science & expansion with one of those pure trees.
 
I'm on what must be my tenth or fifteenth attempt. In this one, I took an English city and razed it then took London with CBs to leave them with one. Only Morocco was my friend after but they back stabbed me when I started my war on Venice and a white war with Spain. Theodora started marching my way.

Nobody has taken money for war.

Rage. Quit. Re-roll. Again...

Right now, I just want to finish this game and really don't care how long it takes!


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