Game settings: Tech tradings

[damnrunner]

How do we add up votes in this? As brokering and no trading are somewhat similar.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Run-off?

 

[Norton I]

Yes, in this situation the votes against unlimited trading split between "no trading" and "no brokering". Unless one of the options gets more than 50% in the first round, there should be a second poll with only the 2 choices that got most votes in the first round.

 

[remake20]

How do we add up votes in this? As brokering and no trading are somewhat similar.

I think we should just take the #1 option. It way the most popular option even though the two different no answer got 1 more vote combined (as of now), I don't think we need to poll this again. And then if we do combine votes and no is more popular than normal we don't need to poll again do we? We would just take the most popular No, wouldn't we?

 

[damnrunner]

Ahh polling the bane of Kazakhstan and now Amazonia.

We can go with many options on this each of which woudl favor differnt outcomes and each of which would allow people to "game" the system. This issue will come up again on other polls we do in the future as well.

I think we should allow more discussion before closing the poll to see if we can reach consensus on how to proceed.

 

[SilentConfusion]

Regardless of how we decide to handle this. We need to be careful in the future when designing the polls. The way this one is set up, most people can want to limit trading in some way, but normal trading still wins.

I don't care how we handle this vote here, but please whoever creates a poll please try to make it as fair as possible. Polls with more than two options should be considered carefully to make sure two of the options aren't similar. If we had run this poll as two polls, first do we want to have normal trading, and if we do then that's settled and if we don't want normal trading do we want no trading or just no tech brokering, that would be better.

I think we can just go with whichever option gets the most votes (even though my option is "no tech trading") this time, so long as we see how this poll could have been better and try to use that knowledge going forward.

In my opinion, we're a good team and will be able to do well regardless of the settings.

 

[leonisgod]

I'm voting no for tech trades here mostly since I'm more interested in the micromanagement aspect and learning about it but could be had either way.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Just for the record, I'm going to push us to expand ridiculously if we leave tech trades on.

I agree, this is a great strategy, and exactly what Cavalieros and SANCTA did in the last game (especially Cav...wow)

Ahh polling the bane of Kazakhstan and now Amazonia.

I think we should just take the #1 option. It way the most popular option even though the two different no answer got 1 more vote combined

Unless one of the options gets more than 50% in the first round, there should be a second poll

Regardless of how we decide to handle this. We need to be careful in the future when designing the polls. I don't care how we handle this vote here, but please whoever creates a poll please try to make it as fair as possible.

Anytime you use polls alot, there is going to be alot of spirited debate. It is because of the competitive nature of elections and voting. It gets people all riled up. Part of the reason people joined AMAZON is because they want lots of debates and polling. Its in our mission statement.

If you check out the "Description of Office" for Captain, you can see that all this ruckus over polling is not a surprise, it was anticipated, and the Captain is responsible for moderating it.

I agree that one of the things that is needed is for the Captain, or some other elected officer to be in charge of the polls; how they are written, structured, and when they are posted. Maybe have people request polls in a thread so that an elected officer can post a clear, fair poll, with some explanation of what happens when there is a tie (or a runoff is needed) rather than everyone just posting them.

damnrunner is right that polling was a big issue on team Kaz. There was one group that wanted contested issues polled after discussion, and another group that wanted to resolve contested issues through discussion with no polling at all. On AMAZON we vote, because AMAZONs believe voting is fun. I think our robust polling will make us stronger and more active and make our team the most fun.

 

[remake20]

So what are we going to do about this one capn'?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Let's wait until the election poll closes in a couple hours. Then we can decide what to do next.

 

[SilentConfusion]

DISCLAIMER: my vote was cast for "no tech trading"

My stance would be that to redo the poll now, knowing how the votes were cast could be seen as a very suspect enterprise.

Either way, anyone on the losing side could feel like they should have won.

In my opinion, unless a majority of those who voted for each option wish to see the poll re-done, it should be left to stand as it was written up.

If we have tech trading on, people will still be able to focus on micromanaging. I am sure that whatever way the game is set up, that our system and our players can rise to the top. Hopefully we can get through this poll without one side feeling cheated.

Also I have posted a thread regarding the opening of an officer position that would hopefully eliminate issues such as this one in the future.

As I stated in that thread, it would be my position that the newly elected officer could not redo current polls without the approval of an overwhelming majority.

These are my thoughts on this issue, but I look forward to hearing other people's opinions on what should be done.

 

[Link]

i second norton but i think we should wait until we have elected a pollmaster to redo the poll

 

[Norton I]

A very general way of doing polls with more than 2 options is to have two rounds. If an option gets more than 50% of the votes in the first round, it automatically wins. If none of the options has more than 50%, there is a second round in which only the top 2 options can be voted on.

This method is fairly standard in matters like presidential elections. The reason is that votes are divided over similar options.

Example:
Suppose team AMAZON has 10 people who prefer R&B music and 12 who prefer Rock.
If I would poll if people like R&B or Rock more, Rock would win.
If I would give the options R&B, hard rock, classic rock, rock & roll and glam rock, I am pretty sure that R&B will get most counts.

With the 2-round rule R&B would win the first round. And maybe Hard Rock comes in second place. In the second round all rock lovers will rally behind Hard Rock and still beat R&B...
This is the fair way to do it... sorry for all you R&B lovers out there

I propose to make the 2-round rule a standard way of dealing with multi-option polls, otherwise the problem will come up again and again and again. Soon we'll have to choose between 3 or 4 city locations!

 

[SilentConfusion]

A very general way of doing polls with more than 2 options is to have two rounds. If an option gets more than 50% of the votes in the first round, it automatically wins. If none of the options has more than 50%, there is a second round in which only the top 2 options can be voted on.

This method is fairly standard in matters like presidential elections. The reason is that votes are divided over similar options.

Example:
Suppose team AMAZON has 10 people who prefer R&B music and 12 who prefer Rock.
If I would poll if people like R&B or Rock more, Rock would win.
If I would give the options R&B, hard rock, classic rock, rock & roll and glam rock, I am pretty sure that R&B will get most counts.

With the 2-round rule R&B would win the first round. And maybe Hard Rock comes in second place. In the second round all rock lovers will rally behind Hard Rock and still beat R&B...
This is the fair way to do it... sorry for all you R&B lovers out there

I propose to make the 2-round rule a standard way of dealing with multi-option polls, otherwise the problem will come up again and again and again. Soon we'll have to choose between 3 or 4 city locations!

This sound good. This could be applied to this poll without having to redo the whole thing.

 

[Calis]

After finally understanding this matter, I think I changed my mind and would like to have a new poll up.

 

[Loev]

Long story

Good option. So the first poll would be:

Allow tech trading with other civs?
A. Yes
B. No

If A wins then we get the poll:

Allow tech broking?
A. Yes
B. No

Are there more options after A has won?

 

[remake20]

In a poll redo I think it would be best to just take the top two items, No tech trading and normal.

 

[damnrunner]

Good option. So the first poll would be:

Allow tech trading with other civs?
A. Yes
B. No

If A wins then we get the poll:

Allow tech broking?
A. Yes
B. No

Are there more options after A has won?

I would reverse that logic. 1st vote if no tech trading brokering or none at all. Then do final vote.

That way the final vote is between tech trading and the none tech trading option. That seems more logical to me.

Or we could do rank order voting - but that can't be easily polled.

As a disclaimer - my preferences are no tech trading, normal trading and my least favorite is brokering. I think policing brokering will get too complex and will just end up being contentious. It will also discourage backstabbing which will result in even more locked in alliances. Keeping the game dynamic is what keeps it fun and interesting.

 

[SilentConfusion]

As a disclaimer - my preferences are no tech trading, normal trading and my least favorite is brokering. I think policing brokering will get too complex and will just end up being contentious. It will also discourage backstabbing which will result in even more locked in alliances. Keeping the game dynamic is what keeps it fun and interesting.

I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the "no tech brokering" option doesn't need policing at all. The game simply won't let you trade a tech you received from a trade, therefore I don't think that that option would lead to a more complex game. Not sure what would happen with techs gained from a hut, although I'd guess you could trade this.

 

[Norton I]

In a poll redo I think it would be best to just take the top two items, No tech trading and normal.

Yes, I would strongly favor this option. Loev's suggestion would also work, but a complication with it is that you can get a discussion on how to order the options (as is illustrated by Damnrunners remark).