SahintheFalcon
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2015
- Messages
- 88
Massive balance issues - probably the most unbalanced of any civ expansion to date. Many multiplayer games already destroyed within the first 45 minutes by these issues, literally wasting the time of 8 players.
Resource Costs
1) Horse and especially iron resources are completely insufficient for early game armies. Less than 1 week after launch, multiplayer games are clearly sliding back into the insufferable Civ 5 abyss of ranged ranged ranged ranged ranged. Either resources need to be at least TRIPLE their production or ranged/anticav need a resource cost as well.
2) Completely takes the fun out of using unique units. Especially if your UU uses iron, there is effectively greater than a 50% chance that you simply won't be using it before it's obsolete.
3) Infantry and Artillery requiring oil, really??? Just because "melee" and "siege" class units after the warrior and catapult ALL have to require a resource? Whereas the field cannon and AT crew don't? Give me a break.
Maps
- Way too many mountains now, feels like I'm playing Civ 5 again waiting for the campers to spam stealth bombers because they know I can't get through the passageways. Had a whole 20-tile area in my last game that was walled off by mountains. My suspicion is that the addition of the Incas accompanied changes in the map generation formula.
New Civilizations
Maori - boom or bust. Five games in a row, the guy playing Maori landed right next to someone and was in an utterly unplayable position. In one game, he didn't even land until turn 29. I was hoping (expecting?) that the devs would make an "obvious" landing spot for Maori with plenty of space, not having them spawn literally randomly in the ocean. But if they do land promptly and get decent terrain, the Toa is beyond OP. Zero maintenance, zero resource cost (basically an instant upgrade from warriors), Legion strength, Varu effect on enemies.
Hungary - completely overpowered, can levy half a dozen city states at a time and have massive armies of swordsmen WITHOUT paying the prerequisite iron costs. Totally gamebreaking and a waste of time to even have Hungary in the match. And not to mention a district/building construction ability that rivals Japan.
Mali - actually pretty balanced on paper, but in practice they benefit greatly from being able to buy unlimited numbers of ranged units in this new meta where the typical counter to ranged (either horses or vet melee) is highly limited by the new resource mechanic
Ottomans - balanced on paper, but again, the fact that Janissaries get a 50% discount is totally nullified by the fact that they cost the exact same amount of nitre as a musketman. Really didn't think this through.
Canada - 60 strength Mountie coming at Conservation? Is this a joke?
Remaining Unsolved Issues
- City states are completely random and you can get 4 of one type with 0 of another type. Still not an option to balance this.
- Oligarchy still benefits only some classes of units for some unknown reason. This does not sound like a big deal at first glance, but it becomes a very big deal when you're next to a guy spamming sword UUs and all you have to counter with is horsemen.
- Steel (urban defenses) is still a ridiculous all-or-nothing cutoff point for battering rams. First of all, battering rams shouldn't be 100% useful until the opponent gets steel, nor should they become completely useless with the advent of urban defenses. Seriously, who has artillery/bombers/nukes at this point to counter? Also see above point about unit resource costs.
- Unbalanced unit promotion trees, with heavy cavalry and especially light cavalry being particularly shafted, though in comparison to the aforementioned issues, this is fairly minor right now.
Finally, some good changes/improvements. I love this game and I give credit where it is due:
- Environmental effects are awesome, I can tell that a lot of playtesting and balancing went into this and it is indeed virtually perfect on release. Very well done.
- Changes to governors make them more balanced and more viable. Very very smart changes here, I applaud the devs for this in particular.
- Eleanor/Sweden/Phoenicia/Inca - great balanced civs
- Increased embark speed in the later game
- No more using government legacy cards in that same government
- Unit production policy cards finally affect units of all previous eras
- Defender of the Faith finally nerfed
- Air units finally buffed
- I will give some credit for the fact that many unique units which were slightly overpowered/underpowered were indirectly rebalanced by changing their resource costs. For example, the Legion costs the full 20 iron, whereas slightly weaker sword replacements may only cost 10 iron, and so on. However, this is almost completely nullified by the insufficient resource generation. I really cannot believe that the encampment does not give a -50% resource cost, you'd think that would be a no brainer based on how it worked in vanilla and RF.
- GDR: AWESOME (see a pic from a multiplayer game yesterday)
Thoughts?
Resource Costs
1) Horse and especially iron resources are completely insufficient for early game armies. Less than 1 week after launch, multiplayer games are clearly sliding back into the insufferable Civ 5 abyss of ranged ranged ranged ranged ranged. Either resources need to be at least TRIPLE their production or ranged/anticav need a resource cost as well.
2) Completely takes the fun out of using unique units. Especially if your UU uses iron, there is effectively greater than a 50% chance that you simply won't be using it before it's obsolete.
3) Infantry and Artillery requiring oil, really??? Just because "melee" and "siege" class units after the warrior and catapult ALL have to require a resource? Whereas the field cannon and AT crew don't? Give me a break.
Maps
- Way too many mountains now, feels like I'm playing Civ 5 again waiting for the campers to spam stealth bombers because they know I can't get through the passageways. Had a whole 20-tile area in my last game that was walled off by mountains. My suspicion is that the addition of the Incas accompanied changes in the map generation formula.
New Civilizations
Maori - boom or bust. Five games in a row, the guy playing Maori landed right next to someone and was in an utterly unplayable position. In one game, he didn't even land until turn 29. I was hoping (expecting?) that the devs would make an "obvious" landing spot for Maori with plenty of space, not having them spawn literally randomly in the ocean. But if they do land promptly and get decent terrain, the Toa is beyond OP. Zero maintenance, zero resource cost (basically an instant upgrade from warriors), Legion strength, Varu effect on enemies.
Hungary - completely overpowered, can levy half a dozen city states at a time and have massive armies of swordsmen WITHOUT paying the prerequisite iron costs. Totally gamebreaking and a waste of time to even have Hungary in the match. And not to mention a district/building construction ability that rivals Japan.
Mali - actually pretty balanced on paper, but in practice they benefit greatly from being able to buy unlimited numbers of ranged units in this new meta where the typical counter to ranged (either horses or vet melee) is highly limited by the new resource mechanic
Ottomans - balanced on paper, but again, the fact that Janissaries get a 50% discount is totally nullified by the fact that they cost the exact same amount of nitre as a musketman. Really didn't think this through.
Canada - 60 strength Mountie coming at Conservation? Is this a joke?
Remaining Unsolved Issues
- City states are completely random and you can get 4 of one type with 0 of another type. Still not an option to balance this.
- Oligarchy still benefits only some classes of units for some unknown reason. This does not sound like a big deal at first glance, but it becomes a very big deal when you're next to a guy spamming sword UUs and all you have to counter with is horsemen.
- Steel (urban defenses) is still a ridiculous all-or-nothing cutoff point for battering rams. First of all, battering rams shouldn't be 100% useful until the opponent gets steel, nor should they become completely useless with the advent of urban defenses. Seriously, who has artillery/bombers/nukes at this point to counter? Also see above point about unit resource costs.
- Unbalanced unit promotion trees, with heavy cavalry and especially light cavalry being particularly shafted, though in comparison to the aforementioned issues, this is fairly minor right now.
Finally, some good changes/improvements. I love this game and I give credit where it is due:
- Environmental effects are awesome, I can tell that a lot of playtesting and balancing went into this and it is indeed virtually perfect on release. Very well done.
- Changes to governors make them more balanced and more viable. Very very smart changes here, I applaud the devs for this in particular.
- Eleanor/Sweden/Phoenicia/Inca - great balanced civs
- Increased embark speed in the later game
- No more using government legacy cards in that same government
- Unit production policy cards finally affect units of all previous eras
- Defender of the Faith finally nerfed
- Air units finally buffed
- I will give some credit for the fact that many unique units which were slightly overpowered/underpowered were indirectly rebalanced by changing their resource costs. For example, the Legion costs the full 20 iron, whereas slightly weaker sword replacements may only cost 10 iron, and so on. However, this is almost completely nullified by the insufficient resource generation. I really cannot believe that the encampment does not give a -50% resource cost, you'd think that would be a no brainer based on how it worked in vanilla and RF.
- GDR: AWESOME (see a pic from a multiplayer game yesterday)
Spoiler :
Thoughts?
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