Gauntlet Three

[Big_Ben]

I don't really like mansa either. He tends to go for different stuff every time I play him. Hard to predict. I am having problems getting religions. Last game I founded Taoism and had hinduism and confucianism spread to me. Flipped a Christian city just a before I won but couldn't use it. Ghandi is building the Oracle and grabbing theology with it and beating me to code of laws. Last game he also beat me to the Parthenon which kind of sucked.

I am going to try playing as the incas again and see what i can pull off. I am going ot play with 2 non-spiritual civs and either ghandi or hatty. Restart until they are on my side. That way I can grab their holy city and be free to grab the other religions myself. Not sure if it will work though. We will see.

I am also thinking about playing as Ghandi but following the same strat I was using with Elizabeth with 3 non-spiritual civs. Either grab hinduism in the beginning or wait until I get alphabet and try and grab judaism if it is still available. Could build the parthenon and oracle that way I think. If I build Stonehenge I can get a great prophet to research code of laws and use the oracle for theology. So that would give me confucianism, taoism, christianity for sure, plus atleast 1 spread to me. Possibility of grabbing hinduism and judaism. If I get another prophet grab Divine right to get islam. Would be nice to have all 7.

I just never have any luck getting more than 2 to spread to me and founding 2-3 myself.

 

[Shillen]

IMO Gandhi is the worst possible opponent for this game. His biggest strengths are grabbing all the religions and building all the wonders.

 

[DaveMcW]

... which makes him the best possible target for the Quecha rush.

 

[Big_Ben]

Ghandi is one of my favorite people to play with but he hasn't really worked out for any of the gauntlets yet.

I just finished a quechua rush with HC. Finished mid-1400's. I was hurting for cash early, had to wait to settle all my cities so some were behind. Founded 5 religions and had one come to me. Managed to get the last one in the end but didn't have time to use it. I missed the parthenon by 4 turns. I think that is a pretty important wonder in this gauntlet. I only managed to churn out 2 prophets (grabbed theology and divine right), 1 engineer (completed the Taj for a golden age), and 7 great artists. Missed music by 1-2 turns or I would have had another.

There are a couple things I think I am going to try with Elizabeth tomorrow. So far the quechua rush seems to be the best strat but I think liz may be able to pull something off.

If the resources are in the right place I am going to try and make a U with my cities next game. Let the comp settle in the middle on purpose, then flip'em later. If I space it out just right I can flip it in time to actually matter.

 

[godotnut]

So I joined the bandwagon and tried a Quecha rush. This time I played on a balanced low sea level map against Cyrus, Asorka, and Mao. I finished in 1432 this time, a lot better but still quite a ways from the big scores.

I chopped Stonehenge and The Oracle for Theology. I landed the Pyramids the old fashion way since I had stone. Later, I built The Sistine Chapel and the Hanging Gardens. I had two great priests and used one on a shrine and one on a tech. In addition I had two scientists and about seven artists. With Liz and the Parthenon I was able to get about twice that.

Food is everything in this gauntlet, eh? That and a lot of cottaging. I had to fend off one major attack from Mao. It had me worried, but I was able to chop some knights with my last forests, and that saved me.

I eventually got all of the religions but one. I flipped two cities. I should have let the second one go in retrospect.

If I had access to marble, I could have shaved a lot of time off. I'm not sure if the Quecha rush is worth the loss of the philosophical trait.

I think maybe the ideal would be the same game I just played, but with Liz and a map that allowed the possibility of having marble, stone, and copper. I could wait a while on the stone, but I want marble right away. I would settle more aggressively to make up for the lack of the Quecha rush.

But each of these takes so long on marathon, and I'm SUPPOSED to be working on my dissertation...

 

[Big_Ben]

If you are doing a quechua rush then play team battlegrounds left vs right. That way when you take out one opponent you have the entire side of the map to your self and it is divided by water. You will have all the resources you want, including the marble, stone, and copper. I like to have marble close to my starting location if possible, but not required, I can usually get it in time for the parthenon.

 

[Orca]

Is it true that Obelisks are still producing culture after you have researched calender ?

 

[walkerjks]

Is it true that Obelisks are still producing culture after you have researched calender ?

Yes (except for Stonehnege provided obelisks, which go away completely, though Stonehenge still produces culture).

Monastaries also continue to provide culture after Scientific Method.

 

[Big_Ben]

How can you make missionaries after scientific method if you don't already have a monastary? Do you have to change your religious civic or is there another way?

 

[Gazaridis]

Just finished a 1492 pangaea game with Elizabeth. Got lucky at start as I got Bronze working from a hut about 5 turns in, and got a couple of workers then 3 settlers from my capital. After I popped Bronze I researched the Wheel and Pottery and started dropping cities. I then got Mysticism then dropped research to 0% and planted a few other cities to make 6. This was pushing my finances heavily, but I pulled it off and was ahead of my opponents (Cyrus, Washington and Frederick) researching maths before them (no point researching alphabet first when youre ahead) . Early Iron working was essential to chop jungles. As I had marble nearby I built the oracle, getting Code of Laws and founding confuscianism. I then got philosophy/taoism, then worked through to music then liberalism (via theology, which i researched to get sistine chapel). then I went through and got up to democracy (about 850 AD) then followed the advice given earlier in the thread about buying cathedrals. I dont think this was worth the 50 turns to go past nationalism (I didnt get Pyramids) so you learn. Kept no state religion throughout (unless asked to switch) until I went 100% culture when I used pacifism. At the same time, i got my workers to farm over the grassland near my support cities, then loaded them with as many artists as possible. In total I got 13 great artists (1 early game, 1 with music, 11 at end from those three cities) and 1 prophet (which I used to found Islam). The only other wonder I build was Sistine Chapel, but it's bonus wasn't useful as I only had the free mercantile specialist in my culture cities (they were all working towns).

In hindsight, I don't think founding a religion is very relevant. As long as you're well connected to everyone else, you'll get plenty spread to you. I founded Confuscianism Taoism and Islam, and each of those only made it to two or three cities - it was Buddhism and Hinduism that got everywhere. Secondly, you wont produce many great artist points before you implement pacifism, so the philosphical bonus is only in effect +50% GPP. Overall great artists provided a third of my culture. However, I dont think they are the key. not even cottages. I reckon it's all about the wonders. In my 100% culture phase, it was really more like 70% culture due to upkeep, so each town was producing (with printing press) bout 6 culture points before multipliers. The Oracle was producing 16 culture points before modifiers - almost three times as much! If you get your early settlers out of your capital by chopping, then chop out early wonders in your other cities you get a couple of powerhouses working throughout the game. I think the way to do it is not use commerce cities for culture, but production cities. Naturally they will have cottages as well, but need farms and mines to build wonders, temples and cathedrals. I reckon Qin's the man to go for.

Answering your question ben, you can build missionaries from cities that had built monasteries prior to scientific method. Changing to organised religion is still an option I believe, but I haven't tried it personally.

 

[SpikeSpy]

Just finished this latest gauntlet with an appalling 1917AD finish. Still for a first time cultural victory attempt on my part I think I didn't do half that bad. Played Ghandi archipelago VS greek, egypt and Mao. Managed to get all 4 early religions so with that in the pocket I think I should have done a lot better. I missed out on the pyramids by about 8 turns so perhaps that is the cause of a much later finish....

 

[Orca]

Hmm i wonder what happens if you build obelisk in your three culture cities and after that Stonehenge - did anyone try this yet ?

 

[DaveMcW]

If you start the obelisk before Stonehenge, you're allowed to finish it after Stonehenge.

 

[Big_Ben]

I just finished a game with HC. I managed to take Ghandi's capital which had founded both hinduism and buddhism. After teching masonry I went for Poly then Mono to found Judaism, then priesthood. I then built the oracle to get theology, and used a great prophet to research code of laws. I used another great prophet to tech half of divine right, was beaten by 2 turns or I would have founded all the religions.

This only took maybe 50 turns to almost get all the religions and I made that up by trading for a ton of techs. The problem is that you don't have a larger enough financial base to buy all the cathedrals fast enough. I had 7 cities, tried to flip another but didn't work. When I was at 0%,0% I was only making about 500 gold a turn. Considering the cathedrals cost 1k gold and I only had maybe 6 built before then, I was forced to spend 60 turns to get the gold to buy them. Not to mention the turns I used to get some temples as well. I agree with Gaz, religion may not be the proper way to go with this.

Going to try something new. We will see how it goes.

 

[Orca]

I dont think its a good idea to priorize relegions that heavily, with only three opponents its very likely that the ones you didnt found yourself will spread to your cities and thats all you really need.

 

[Big_Ben]

I have had a lot of trouble getting religions to spread to me. Especially if I am playing with HC on team battleground left vs right. However the shortest path to liberalism will let you found every religion. Founding a religion also gives you a free missionary, which saves a little bit of building.

I just tried something different. I played as HC and took out Ghandi. My tech went like this pottery-bronze-liberalism I teched alphabet while waiting on the oracle to finish and give me code of laws, but by then I had alphabet finished so I grabbed paper. As soon as I hit liberalism I switched over to 100% culture (although it was 70-80) and that was around 800 AD. Was going to see if not going after cathedrals would save any time. It didn't. Finish was in the late 1600's. Getting the religious buildings is pretty important to finishing with a decent time. Doesn't matter if you found them, but you do need a couple cathedrals. Also, switching your support city to GP city too early hurts since you pop isn't as high as it could be. Need to find a nice medium.

Something else that hurt me a lot was that I had several happiness resources and few health resources. Also I had a limited number of food plots to build on. Which caused some growth problems early.

Next game I am just going straight for liberalism and going after stonehenge, the pyramids, parthenon, oracle, sistine, and maybe notre dame.

 

[Orca]

If you start the obelisk before Stonehenge, you're allowed to finish it after Stonehenge.

Didnt work for me, however i was building the missing Obelisk in a different city. As soon as Stonehenge finished it wouldnt let me finish the last Obelisk anymore.

 

[BlueRenner]

In case anyone is interested, I tried a version of the Incan Quecha rush. In my version I replaced "Incan" with "English" and "Quecha" with "Piles of Warriors". This 'strategy' doesn't get a thumbs up from me, because two archers can hold off ten warriors with ease.

I'm still not sold that early offense is the way to go.

- Bill

 

[MaskedFrog]

All of my latest attempts have ended in failure due to missing Pyramids by a couple of turns. I have been playing with Elizabeth on Balanced Tropical Low Sea Level maps. I have noticed that most times Marble is not available as a resource and Stone is in short supply.

My latest attempt I thought was going to be great. There was a very long river with two excellent city spots. One had 7 or 8 Flood Plains and all the remaining tiles as grasslands or plains. The other had wheat and a good number of grasslands. The third city spot had access to fish and crabs and corn with plenty of grasslands plains.

My capital had wine so my early tech growth was good. Went Bronze Working - Pottery - Masonry-Alphabet-Drama-Liberalism. As soon as I got Masonry I switched to making Pyramids. I did not have access to stone so I dedicated two settlers to clear cutting any remaining trees around my capital. I was just finishing the last chop that would put me real close to Pyramids and Peter managed to finish them. I tried to continue cranking tech to 100% but Mao eveuntually declared war on me and took one of my culture cities. Sad part is originally everyone was the same religion and then Mao up and decides to switch to a different religion.

To change pace I think I am going to try a Quechua rush. Maybe I the computer will not hate me as much.

 

[godotnut]

@BlueRenner,
An early offense is possible with Liz if you beeline for copper and wait for a start where it is close by. Build a worker right away and chop some axemen while you research pottery by way of the wheel (to connect the copper). Since you won't have the wheel when you start chopping, you can pre-chop forests while you are waiting, then pop them out. Then switch to building cottages with the worker and immediately send the 5+ stack of axemen to the nearest city with lots of food and a worker to steal.

I have not been able to do this and still get the wonders I normally would, however. It usually costs me at least one big one (Pyramids, Parthenon...) due to the loss of forests. It might be worth it for access to marble and a good culture city sight, though, for example.