Generating research

[yanner39]

I'm attempting my first science win. It's only on Prince. I won my first 2 games, diplo and domination, quite handily.

Currently, the date is 1816AD and my research rate is +599 per turn. Is this any good? It's hard to compare with the other AIs - in all my games to date, I am ahead in all demo categories except Approval rate.

Also, how does research figure into city specialization? I find myself building science buildings in ALL my cities to get the rate up. Also, do you work as many scientists as possible, like anytime a building opens up a spot?

 

[Shorkan]

Did you get the Free Thought policy (Rationalism tree)

It gives science from Trading Posts.

I think I was getting around 960 science per turn at the end of my science win last night.

 

[bluedevil99]

A few science tips, some of which you probably already know:

Until you unlock specialists, it's all population-based
So in terms of specialization, a food city is a research city
A library is thus arguably the most important early-game building (+50% research)
Scientist specialists (+3 beakers) are incredibly powerful early, like having 2 extra pop, and...
Use great scientists to advance in eras as quickly as possible, as this improves city state bonuses
The old CE/SE debate is alive and well: is the TP bonus from rationalism better than the food/happiness specialist bonuses from freedom?

 

[yanner39]

@ Shorkan

Yep, I'm going through the Rationalism tree right now. Did you mow over farms and replace them with TP? I'm only building TP's right now, but I need to have some production tiles as well.

I'm just not sure about the balance, which what makes this game great. I mean, farms boost your growth, which increases your pop and research. TPs slows your growth but gives you added research. In my cities, should I build science buildings or culture buildings? Culture building will get through the rationalism tree more quickly.

I also have a few puppet cities that I can't annex because of my happyness issue. The annexed cities could start building science buildings instead of a stupid armory.

Just curious, what was the date of victory and what level? Did you find you were struggling with production to build your space ship parts?

 

[Shorkan]

At work right now, so don't have access to the game to verify.

I completed Liberty, Freedom and Rationalism social policies in that order. And started on Order before the game finished.

But I think it was around 1960 AD on Prince. Each Space Ship part took roughly 33 turns.
I started out with more farms and later in the game replaced them with TP's. Mainly kept farms near rivers. I had around 10 cities and 5 puppet states. I build Universities and public schools in all my cities and a National College.

 

[Nunya]

Each unit of population consumes 2 food and with a Library generates 1,5 science. With Civil Service and Fertilizer every farm = +2 food = +1 population = +1,5 science. Tradepost with Rationalism is better, especially if you have maritime allies.

Specialists however are even better since they give +3 science for +2 food. With that Freedom policy they even consume only 1 food so that's basically +6 science per farm. However, their number is very limited.

So general strategy is first maximize number of specialists (even without Freedom), then replace farms with tradeposts (only with Rationalism).

 

[yanner39]

Each unit of population consumes 2 food and with a Library generates 1,5 science. With Civil Service and Fertilizer every farm = +2 food = +1 population = +1,5 science. Tradepost with Rationalism is better, especially if you have maritime allies.

Specialists however are even better since they give +3 science for +2 food. With that Freedom policy they even consume only 1 food so that's basically +6 science per farm. However, their number is very limited.

So general strategy is first maximize number of specialists (even without Freedom), then replace farms with tradeposts (only with Rationalism).

Thanks for this. It's a little how I would try and work it. My problem has been, if I stop a pop from working a tile to be a specialist, then my production suffers and builds like unis and public schools take for ever to build.

 

[Spark026]

Anyone else used Free Thought SP, and only had it give +1 Science per trading post?

I haven't tried it again, but I've noticed other small glitches in games that where not present in others.

For ex., in one game farming tiles with the wheat bonus generated no additional food bonus. In all other games wheat generated food correctly.

 

[Lyoncet]

Yes, Free Thought only gives +1 beaker per turn per trading post; it is unknown which yield is the intended one. While it seems like +2 would really overpower most trading post tiles, even with that 2 beakers per turn it seems like other policies in Rationalism give even more beakers, so who knows?

 

[yanner39]

RE: Building spaceship parts

I didn't want to start another thread, but is a spaceship part considered a unit or building and do the production bonuses of a forge or workshop apply?

EDIT: I checked and since they are considered a unit, I assume the forge bonus applies

 

[yanner39]

Here is another issue I find confusing: It's late 1800AD, maybe 1888AD, my research rate is is roughly +972. All of a sudden, I look up, it's 1896AD, and now my research is 750? What the heck could have happened? I know I sold a 10 pop city but it was a puppet city that was causing too much unhappies but the hit at the time was roughly 35 research points. Could the fact that I have negative 5 in aluminum be an issue? I have alot of gold so that's no problem.

 

[Nunya]

Yes, Free Thought only gives +1 beaker per turn per trading post; it is unknown which yield is the intended one.

In that case farms are generally better for research than rationalism's trading posts. However, there are a few situational modifiers.

1. It takes the city some time to grow, but TP bonus is instantly available. A pop 13 city probably won't grow anytime soon unless you build a hospital.

2. The gold from a TP can be used to sign research agreements. I don't have any hard data on the costs though so it's hard to judge at this point.

3. The gold from a TPalso allows you to take advantage of whatever your new technology just unlocked by purchasing.

So the revised strategy is don't replace farms with trading posts, but feel free to build trading posts in size 10+ cities.

 

[Collic]

I'm going for a science win in my current game, and I've found I have some nice areas of jungle tiles. Obviously I know about the science bonus with universities, but does this stack with the +1 to science from trade posts?

 

[beancounter]

Just finished my first Science win. I went with Freedom and Rationalism. I was confused about Trading Posts as well since I was only getting one beaker out of them. Specialists get really powerful, a scientist gives 5 beakers and only costs 1 food to suport with the one Freedom policy and the Rationalism policy. A library gives 2, University gives 1, Public Education gives 1 and Research Lab gives 1. Assigning a Specialist to those buildings will give +25 Science. That is better then a size 20 city working 20 trading posts. Plus I popped 5 or 6 Great Scientists which i used to bulb free tech.

One thing is for sure, you also need at least two cities with strong production. Those space ship parts are expensive and you can not rush buy them. Aluminin and the Spaceship factory is very useful. I also burned all my Great Generals all Golden Ages to spead up production when I started making the space ship.