Get me out of this Gehenna

[darski]

I recently decided to try a Standard sized map just because I never go that large and it seemed like a good idea at the time. I am playing Pan/60% water/5 bil years. I chose the Hittites - also largely because I never do and - because they offered commercial and expansionist on a large land mass.

Well it is now 920 AD and I am still in despotism and I can't get out.

I had the threat of Yankees and the Zulu as my nearest neighbours to start so a threat of war was always likely but then the Iro started a war and one or another of the (not Yankees or Zulu) civs have declared on me ever since. I kept my neighbours busy fighting the various enemies but I just couldn't take a chance on anarchy in the midst of one or two wars going on. Further, two lousy pikes have destroyed my fighting force of 5 vet/elite knights and 2 crusaders in a single turn. I hate those PRNG and refuse to bend the knee to them.

This game is just not worth continuing and I cleaned out the saves back when... I only noticed the date when I was quitting and saw the save name. My question is just about whether or not this is usual in a larger land mass game?

Also, what do you do about switching govts earlier on with danger on many sides? I swear, I was just putting the finishing touches on my cities before choosing to switch when the 2 lousy Iro rWarriors showed up and declared.

I admit that I am a wussy warlord player but even for me this is going like a bat out of Gehenna on the bad scale.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

900 AD is late for any game to still be in despotism.

But if your fighting force is 7 units, at this point in teh game, I'd guess that you haven't expanded enough. or you built too many defensive units.

 

[darski]

900 AD is late for any game to still be in despotism.

But if your fighting force is 7 units, at this point in the game, I'd guess that you haven't expanded enough. or you built too many defensive units.

Well no - that was the force I had together on that turn. Remember that the enemies were (of necessity) far away from my core cities. It takes a lot of turns to get to the front and this war was called immediately after peace was declared. My PRNG luck is notoriously bad and this was not the only war site. It was just the most notorious at that point. I have lost untold numbers of units in that city already. I think I only took 1 hp off one of the pikes in that battle.

I generally make a save just before I go into anarchy. If I had one, it would be interesting to see how the game would have gone if I had just gone for the switch way back in my BC days.

 

[vmxa]

It is best to get out ASAP, but I once played a Sid game and stayed in depostism the whole game. It was just like your issues, I was under constant pressure for so long. It seem to me like I may as well stay.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

ahh.. sorry to have misunderstood.

I dunno - I think I'd just switch. You might lose a city if things get really bad, but you probably won't, and if it takes them that long to get to you, you'll be able to take that city back.

And the increased production will help a lot.

 

[Lanzelot]

At which point in time did you first research Monarchy/Republic? (Don't know for which one you went.) You probably got it much earlier than 900AD. So my advice would be: switch immediately, when you get it, even if your economy does not yet seem ripe for the switch. It needs a bit of getting used to, but once you get the hang of it, you will find that being in Rep/Mon actually helps you getting the economy ready for Rep/Mon much faster than staying in Despo would...

Using this strategy you should be able to get out of Despotism before any AI is close enough to declare war on you.

Or to put it in other words: in 920AD there is probably not much we could tell you to help you -- the real problem happened 1 or 2 millenniums earlier. (Just to give you an idea: in my games I usually try to revolt between 1500BC - 800BC, depending on difficulty level and the quality of my start terrain.) If you have a couple of early saves from that game, we can perhaps give you more concrete tips.

Lanzelot

 

[darski]

I got the Rep. slingshot but at the time my economy would have been at -48 gpt if I had changed. I didn't have a lot more than 50 gold at the time and very few cities. I had literally just gotten my economy ready for repub when the Iro's began what became an unending series of wars.
I was wishing I had an early save as it would likely have been possible to switch even while at war.

As I said... I never keep saves and I have started another game. This time there were no early wars and I got to change govt. early as well.

 

[Spoonwood]

Somebody, please copy this for Darski.

-48 gpt at what tax rate? Could you have lowered it?

 

[Lanzelot]

I got the Rep. slingshot but at the time my economy would have been at -48 gpt if I had changed.

No big problem, has happened to me as well... Most of the time it can be fixed:

• disband a couple of regular warriors you kept for military police --> Sometimes I have to disband like 5-10 of them upon entering Republic. This frees up 10-20 gpt. (Make sure that during anarchy you move them into towns, where the shields help getting something finished a turn faster.)
• Probably you have too many not really needed improvements? (Temples, courthouses, granaries in towns that no longer grow, etc) Disband them as well.
• If you have high commerce tiles (gold hill, gems mountain, incense, etc) make sure you work them.
• An absolute top priority is to connect any luxury in sight. You need high population (preferably many cities over size 7), and this can be done only with enough luxuries. Otherwise the lux tax eats all your income. (On Warlord it may also be possible to build Hanging Gardens in time, but I never tried that strategy.)
• It is not uncommon that in the first couple of turns as a Republic, you need to lower science rate to 20% (or even lower!) only to stay afloat... But after 5-10 turns your population will have grown so fast, that you can soon increase science to 40% again, and then you'll be researching faster than in Despo with 80%!

 

[AutomatedTeller]

In republic, you pretty much have to road everything, as well. Any tile being worked that doesn't have a road is 2 gpt you don't get (minus corruption effects, of course)

deleting MP's is normal, too - I often delete 2/3 of my warrior MP's.

 

[Mursi lives]

I am playing Pan/60% water/5 bil years. I chose the Hittites.

Good choice!

I got the Rep. slingshot but at the time my economy would have been at -48 gpt if I had changed. I didn't have a lot more than 50 gold at the time and very few cities. I had literally just gotten my economy ready for repub when the Iro's began what became an unending series of wars.

Since you got the rep slingshot, you had a considerable lead in techs (at least philo + republic). Moreover, as expansionist civ on pangea, you surely had contact with every other civs. IOW there was no need to keep researching, trading republic at the right time should be enough to get every other AA tech. The best move is usually to revolt immediately (3-4 anarchy turns with very few cities), turn research off, and use gold to build embassies and accelerate REX. Getting surplus food from any irrigated grassland + cash-rushing settlers or workers will enable you to grow much faster than your opponents.

 

[darski]

Good choice!



Since you got the rep slingshot, you had a considerable lead in techs (at least philo + republic). Moreover, as expansionist civ on pangea, you surely had contact with every other civs. IOW there was no need to keep researching, trading republic at the right time should be enough to get every other AA tech. The best move is usually to revolt immediately (3-4 anarchy turns with very few cities), turn research off, and use gold to build embassies and accelerate REX. Getting surplus food from any irrigated grassland + cash-rushing settlers or workers will enable you to grow much faster than your opponents.

This is some good information. I'll use it the next time I try this kind of game. Thank you.

As Hittites, I started with Alph and went straight up the path to repub - via code of laws and philo. I have found it to be a challenge to get Rep so early and then you can't use it. ((sigh))

 

[Nergal]

It can be hard getting Republic to work and there are some situations where Monarchy is better. Its just practice though, and experience. Republic really needs rivers, lots of roaded river tiles for commerce and as many luix as you can grab. A couple of barracks towns pumping out veteran units and the resty of your cities building markets.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

another thing to consider - even if you are at war, you might lose a city, but it's hard for the AI to just roll you over in the AA unless you are playing deity or Sid or something.

A lot of players play extreme farmer's gambits, with nothing better than warriors for quite some time. Sometimes they lose a city, sometimes not...