Give CGN Aid?

[Hygro]

CGN Requests 400 Gold ASAP, and then 180 gold every two turns.

Obviously we cannot afford it, but should we give as much as we can anyway?

The point is so they can build horsemen, then upgrade to knights, stave off GWT, and keep GWT from getting even bigger, or giving GCA new lands to make an empire on (such lands are significant enough they could end up rivaling us).

However, this is a lot of money, thats quite a gamble. It looks like GWT might just win anyway. CGN has enough galleys with settlers that they could risk making it to our continent, and then build a 2 city empire for the sole purpose of making Sipahi for the upcoming World War. They will also be giving the Alliance a free industrial tech.

Personally, I am against aid as I feel it's a lost cause. How about the rest of you?

(Check both chat logs if you want to find more details)

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

No, we should not get involved in foreign affairs of the west. I fear thaat if GWT were to ever find out they would attack us with a SoD or two and we would e powerless to stop it due to the lack of a good army or navy. We need the money to spend on our expantion on our continant. We need to build up our military too, to have some more wieght with our word. Right now we are a small nation, and the weakest milatary wise (other than GCA). We need to build up to get ready for the day we are attacked. If we were to ever be attacked by APO we should be toast. We need to make a good home army first.

Also we need the money for scientific reaserch also. I heard DZ saying one time that he wants to stop the 40 turn reaserch, and I agree with him. We need to be a more slef-efficent nation. It is terrable that we PAY another nation for what we should be doing. If we can someday out tech the other nations, it wil be better than many armys. So NO ON WAR.

 

[Octavian X]

Posting the following per request:

[21:51:39] [E_T[hanging_out]] let them know that poly sent almost our whole treasury this turn, and we wait on CGN to accept it, the amount was for purchasing workers at 20 gold per, not a loan, the workers would then be held until payed back
[21:52:45] [E_T[hanging_out]] if CGN doesn't like the terms, i.e., they are still debating it and voting on it, then they will not accept it
[21:55:09] [E_T[hanging_out]] but CGN is also in the middle of a palace revolt
[21:56:26] [E_T[hanging_out]] so, they will have better control over their military

 

[Donovan Zoi]

I am going to take in both chats to the fullest before voting here. If we are voting on the specific numbers mentioned in the first post, then I would have to vehemently disagree with this plan.

I would, however, support military assistance once we claim Navigation, but my fear is that by that time it would be too late.

I will give you my personal opinion on this matter tomorrow afternoon EST.

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
I am going to take in both chats to the fullest before voting here. If we are voting on the specific numbers mentioned in the first post, then I would have to vehemently disagree with this plan.

I would, however, support military assistance once we claim Navigation, but my fear is that by that time it would be too late.

I will give you my personal opinion on this matter tomorrow afternoon EST.

Exactly. I wouldn't mind seeing CGN weakened alot by the war, but I don't want them destroyed.

Emp. Nap., they hate us already. Just look at their puppet state.

 

[Octavian X]

I'd rather try to stop GWT by aiding a friendly state. If we can help CGN defeat GWT, we're at least down one hostile state.

Ideally, they'll both keep feuding for the rest of the game, without much progress by either, allowing CFC/Apolyton to score an allied victory.

 

[Yndy]

I would say No, for I think CGN is a lost cause, I'd offer to give them space to settle on our continent.

But I am not casting my vot right now, I understand there are still things to be disclosed in the issue.

 

[Cheetah]

We could buy some workers too, just as Apolyton does.

 

[Ankka]

I say let's help them in some way at least. We could give them our Northern territory to settle, DZ has been saying it won't be settled by us for a long long time...

 

[Zarn]

@Cheetah: they were resistant to selling to Apolyton. It seemed CGN wants its workers.

@Ankka: Then we would hurt our chances even further of winning.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

By letting them settle to the north would be a violation of our treaty with APO. Also it will pretty much garentee us that we will be seeing GWT troops in our land soon after. We would just be plowed over by GWT in that case.

 

[RegentMan]

I'm not a fan of the gold deal, but we need to eventually aid them. Once a nice sized army and navy of riders and caravels are built, we can begin our golden age and attempt to weaken an enemy and destroy a game-long one.

 

[Hygro]

RegentMan, CGN is nearly garenteed to lose before we can do that if they don't get the gold, and there's quite a risk if they do.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Sorry, folks.....bad President.

I will do what I said I would do --- in approximately 9-10 hours.

Thanks for your patience.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

Before decissions are made i got a point to present to the discussion:

Do we know what the estimate value could be in gold of sold CGN infrastructure in the case that it should be overrun by GWT?
given the number of city's they have ,and the sell prices of certain infrastructure (taking into account that you can only sell 1 building in a city at the time) ,i would figure that if CGN would be forced to abbondon their lands due to an unstoppable GWT to maybe be harboured later by Apolyton (quite lickely i presume if nessecary ) that they could easily sell infrastructure for a net worth of +1000gold. (if not +2000)

In this sense ,isnt it reasonable to presume that If we loan to CGN should they be inneffective to win that war anyway they could still possibly be able to repay our loan by selling out their infrastructure.
Now if the loan won't get trough ,CGN will loose that war and will have to abandon that continent most likely wich will be very disadvantagous for us in the long term strategicly ,it will always be a bit better for us if CGN survives on that continent than that it succumbs.

It's just a point ,you could reason that the sellout of CGN infrastructure could be even more advantagous to us if we don't loan ùmoney and just take that CGN money net.I am of the oppinion that we must do everything we can to let CGN survive.

Another point is that if CGN survives eventually the loan has a possibilety of being repayed. A good banker doesnt like his loaners to die before they repayed their debts. (if possible with a just interrest )

Certain requirements could be made to the loan within a treaty.With this loan of "insert cash amount here" you will defeat the invading army's of GWT ,should you be unable to comply to this due to nooby tactics (though more machevelian presented) ,then you will repay the amount of the loan with an interrest of "insert percentage here" by selling city infrastructure.To effeciantly calculate the net worth of sellable buildings a inspector will be assigned to indexate the CGN infrastructure.

K maybe farfetched ,but give it a thought.

 

[Ankka]

INteresting idea... that could be asked from them...

 

[NeoDemocrat]

I think it'd be best to just stay out of Foreign Affairs. Can anyone explain to me what can be gained by helping and giving away all of our money?

 

[RegentMan]

Originally posted by Hygro
RegentMan, CGN is nearly garenteed to lose before we can do that if they don't get the gold, and there's quite a risk if they do.

Hmmm... I am now leaning towards giving them the gold using TheDuckOfFlanders' idea.

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by NeoDemocrat
I think it'd be best to just stay out of Foreign Affairs. Can anyone explain to me what can be gained by helping and giving away all of our money?

Not all of it, and if GWT conquers CGN, it will become far too powerful. Besides, GWT is the puppet master of our enemy GCA.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

I am sure that CGN will lose the war as of right now, maybe even with our financal assistance. But my fear is that they will get very close to triggering domination with that big continant under their control. Even if it is not enough it is sure close. After they will they will launch an offencive onto the other continant. Since APO is rather powerfull they will not go for them, but for us. We are week and have enoguh terriotry to trogger domination for them. We must prepare for this invasion NOW. We should not waste money to a war that our ally can not win. We must use it for our navy and our defence. With even a small navy they could transport many troops that could defet us. APO will not be able to help us in time.

That is a grim picture but I am sure something of the sort will happen. If we can build up now, when the invasion fleet comes we can defend aginst it and maby even make a counter-offencive. This is key to winning the game. It will end up to score or diplomoncy, and the resolution wil ahve to be discussed at a later time.