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Give CGN Aid?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Multi-site Demo Game: High Council' started by Hygro, Apr 11, 2004.

?

Give CGN Aid? Details below and in both chat logs

  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  2. No

    8 vote(s)
    53.3%
  3. Abstain (I guess this means you are protesting this vote)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    Duck, they already sold their infrastructure.
     
  2. TheDuckOfFlanders

    TheDuckOfFlanders the fish collecter

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    They already sold infrastructure ,that i know ,but i would be surprized if they sold ALL their infrastructure.Anyway it was just an idea ,but i guess it couldn't hurt if we would ask CGN to make a list of infrastructure they still have.

    Iuf we build a solid navy it would be very hard for GWT to invade us granted that we scout enough for enemy wolfpack's.I doubt they will dare to put much of their army on boats if their is a solid navy to oppose them and able to atleast send 2/3 of that boarded army to the bottom of the sea ,that is our navy's will have to be put on strategic location's so that they can intercept an enemy navy with sufficiant force in 2 or 3 turns.

    Btw what are the shortest route's from Gwt continent to our continent? and how much tiles is that?

    Another thing ,couldn't we just send a good Apolyton general to GWT to lead their army?The rules of the game forbid forum espionage ,however it says nowhere that it is forbidden to invite an member of an other (allied) team to youre own forum.I see that many good Poly and CFC players are concerned about the use of CGN loans as their millitary abilety's lack that much that they would rather just waste any amount of cash ,so what about forcing CGN to put a foreign general at the helm of their army?
     
  3. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    They appearantly sold everything but barracks and walls, so I heard. I'd guess their remaining worth is no more than 300, tops.

    I like your APO General idea, however that might tie into the "no being on two teams" rule as well.
     
  4. Ankka

    Ankka Chieftain

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    Well, he could "swap" teams...:mischief:
     
  5. Emp.Napoleon

    Emp.Napoleon SUPER EMP!

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    I like the idea of sending a APO or CFC general to CGN. They lack ability for military. I am sure it wil be fine with the rules.
     
  6. NeoDemocrat

    NeoDemocrat MOS MOS MOS

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That up there is a good idea, gentlemen (or ladies):goodjob: :goodjob:
     
  7. RegentMan

    RegentMan Chieftain

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    That's an interesting idea. Who would we want to send if CFC is chosen to provide a general?
     
  8. Ankka

    Ankka Chieftain

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    Hmm... Hygro...?
     
  9. Emp.Napoleon

    Emp.Napoleon SUPER EMP!

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    I second that, maybe civgeneral also.
     
  10. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    I think one from us and one from APO would be best - too many people will just cause confusion.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  11. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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    You are diverting from the topic.

    OK CGN is not going to win. But we have to think economically; is the investment we make in helping CGN survive (a bit longer) bigger than the gains; then we shouldn't. Is the investment smaller than the gains; then we should.

    What are the gains ?
    Best case scenario - CGN recovers and defeats GWT. Highly unlikely.
    2nd best scenario - CGN recovers and the war is in a stalemate. Highly unlikely.
    Next best - GWT is slowed so largely in their conquest that CGN can make a proper escape. Very likely.
    Next best - GWT looses enough units to have their upcoming invasion on Poly-CFC land postponed by several turns. Very likely.
    Worst case scenario - GWT forces are so strong with or without financial aid; CGN is toasted in the same amount of turns. Only a few GWT-units are lost extra. Unlikely.

    I think the gains are better than the investment. Every turn the GWT wastes in their continent is 1 extra turn for us. Every unit they loose is 1 fewer to come to us. We are buying time. Now it's up to you to decide what outweighs what in importance. Is it worth it ?
     
  12. Ankka

    Ankka Chieftain

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    I'd say let's help 'em. But we can't pay the 40gpt to Poly if we do that. I'm sure they'll understand, though.
     
  13. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

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    My apologies for vacating this issue for so long, but I have only recently skimmed through the chat to see exactly what we are up against. Now that I have, I can give my thoughts on some of the ideas presented here.

    The Lend-A-General Program: Against the spirit of the game, IMHO, and most likely an insult to those we are willing to help. In fact, I know that Trip from Apolyton has already talked strategy with miccofl several times, but to no avail. What I would rather see is constant communication between CGN/APO/us, which includes:

    1. Screenshots from CGN, showing their "hot spots," so that we may assist them verbally and know how to plan for our engagement into the hostilities.

    2. A dedication to send troops as soon as possible(I will be furnishing my plan shortly after I have a talk with Apolyton on their time frame for Navigation), and would like help from the Military Department to do so.

    3. A minimal per turn gift on our part until our engagement, not to exceed 40gpt. We cannot drop our joint-tech obligation to Apolyton for this.

    I think we can be more effective with actual units there rather than sending our meager sums their way. Timing is everything, however. I just want to make sure that our assistance is significant.

    CGN's chances: Rik's assessment is right on, but I am still concerned that our minimal per turn offering won't help them much.

    GWT invasion: I am fully prepared to field a strong navy as soon as we can get our hands on Astronomy. By building Harbors on both island cities, and maybe building a third city/ harbor, we can dedicate those to building nothing but Caravels. I will be meeting with Apolyton as soon as they are available to discuss their progress on research, and when we can get these techs.

    One thing to keep in mind is that Poly has(or had...must confirm) a tech advantage in the Education---->Navigation branch of the tech tree, so we should get to Caravels first. This means that we can scout the ocean first, and prepare ourselves for any move they make. I would also try to encourage Poly to take the path to Magnetism afterward so that we both possess even better naval technology.

    So, in short I am not that worried about a GWT invasion, especially if we can get to their side and keep 'em busy. :D

    Who's comin' with me?? :ninja: :ar15:
     
  14. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

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    Oh, and I voted Yes regarding financial assitance to CGN. So now it looks like we need to post a poll regarding how much assistance we should offer. I will let discussion run for a bit longer, after which I will post a poll for this. Unless there are objections, the choices will be:

    1. 50+ gpt
    2. 40 gpt
    3. 30 gpt
    4. 20 gpt
    5. 10 gpt
    6. 0gpt
    7. Abstain

    I will not include a separate poll for lump sum because frankly, we have no lump sum to offer. ;)

    Please let me know what you think.
     
  15. Zarn

    Zarn Le Républicain Catholique

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    How much does it cost to upgrade a horseman?

    Although I was the earliest advocator at CFC (I believe) for finiacial aid (even earlier than CGN even considering aid), I am not so sure now. CGN's military leaders are aren't that good at all. They are not worth a large investment like 45+, and even a small or decent size investment is giving alot for a hope that their defense minister can pull it off.

    They asked for too much, too late. :(
     
  16. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

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    80 gold to upgrade from Horse to Knight. We would only be able to get them 1/2 a Knight per turn. :lol:

    Other than that, stay tuned, Zarn. I am hoping to speak with Apolyton by the end of the week to answer alot of questions we have.
     
  17. Zarn

    Zarn Le Républicain Catholique

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    Well, we can't afford to give them any more than that. I think Apolyton and CFC should plan for the worst case scenario.
     
  18. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

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    Please visit this thread for an important chat update. I believe the issues discussed tonight with Apolyton should be considered when determing how much we should send to CGN.

    I personally have changed my stance to no financial aid.
     
  19. Emp.Napoleon

    Emp.Napoleon SUPER EMP!

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    Why are they building horses. Why not just knights?


    I think that we need too keep a united front on this first, and what we are doing in this aguing is good. Now what I think is that CGN is dommed. I fear that us giving territory to CGN will lower our productivity in a time of war. It will indeed cause a pause in the GWT war machine due to the western pond. CGN does not have the techs to cross it and nor do we. CGN is a lost cause.

    If CGN is plowed over then APO and us will have a common enamy. It will renforce our treaty and we might be able to pull our recorses together and build a goood militaty. Maybe we can hold out long enoughf to pull off a Space Race or a Diplomatic victory.

    After CGN falls we should have a open-door policy for the refugies, like we did with CDG.
     
  20. Yndy

    Yndy Chieftain

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    Finally I am able to vote: NO to any help to CGN, they are doomed.
     

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